5/6/03

LC030506

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> THE STORY OF AN IRANIAN IMMIGRANT. HE CAME HERE IN SEARCH OF THE AMERICAN DREAM, BUT HE WOUND UP BEHIND BARS.

MASOUD KHOSHNEVIS>> I WAS COMPLETELY SHOCKED. I ASKED THEM HOW LONG AND THEY SAID TWO TO FIVE DAYS AND I SAID EVEN TWO TO FIVE SECONDS IS TOO MUCH BECAUSE I DON’T THINK I DID ANYTHING IN MY LIFE TO DESERVE TO BE DETAINED.

VAL>> AND THEN, ANOTHER CONDOR AND ANOTHER TRAGIC DEATH. DOES THE ENDANGERED CALIFORNIA BIRD HAVE A FUTURE IN THE WILD AFTER ALL?

JESS>> PLUS, THE GOVERNOR AND WALL STREET. CAN THEY DEAL EFFECTIVELY WITH CALIFORNIA’S BUDGET MELTDOWN?

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> HE’S BEEN CALLED A VICTIM OF THE WAR ON TERRORISM.

JESS>> BUT HE MADE HIS PROBLEMS WORSE BY TELLING HIS BOSS A LIE. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT AN IRANIAN MAN FROM ORANGE COUNTY WHO SPENT MORE THAN TWO MONTHS IN FEDERAL CUSTODY. THE STORY EVENTUALLY HAS A HAPPY ENDING, BUT AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, IT BEGINS AS ONE MAN’S PERSONAL TRAGEDY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MASOUD KHOSHNEVIS GREW UP IN IRAN, BUT AS A TEENAGER, HE REJECTED THE VALUES OF HIS FUNDAMENTALIST MUSLIM FAMILY AND THAT PUT HIM ON A DANGEROUS TRACK. AS A YOUNG ADULT, MASOUD LEARNED THAT THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT HAD BLACK-LISTED HIM AS A DISSENTER. THAT’S WHEN HE PAID SMUGGLERS TO GET HIM AND HIS WIFE INTO GERMANY, BUT THERE HE FACED MORE PROBLEMS. MASOUD OPENED A STORE ONLY TO BECOME THE TARGET OF VANDALS WHO MADE IT CLEAR THEY DIDN’T LIKE FOREIGNERS. AFTER SEVEN YEARS, HE HAD HAD ENOUGH. THAT’S WHEN MASOUD DECIDED TO COME TO AMERICA WHERE HE AND HIS FAMILY MIGHT REALIZE THEIR DREAMS.

MASOUD KHOSHNEVIS>> MY FIRST DAY WORKING IN AMERICA, I HAD ONLY TEN DOLLARS IN MY POCKET. I START MY LIFE WITH TEN DOLLARS AND, AFTER TEN YEARS, LAST YEAR ME AND MY WIFE WE MADE $100,000.

PHILIP BRUCE>> STARTING OUT DELIVERING PIZZA, MASOUD HELD A SERIES OF JOBS, BUT HE ALWAYS LOOKED FOR A BETTER OPPORTUNITY.

MASOUD KHOSHNEVIS>> I FORGOT WHAT I HAD OR WHO I WAS. I SAID I HAVE TO MAKE MY OWN LIFE HERE. NOBODY ASKED ME TO COME HERE. I CAME ON MY OWN. I ACCEPTED ALL THE RISKS AND I TRIED TO BUILD MY HOUSE AND MY LIFE BRICK BY BRICK. I MADE IT.

POURAN AYOUBI>> MY HUSBAND, WHO LOVES AMERICA REALLY, SAID MY FIRST COUNTRY IS AMERICA AND I WISH I WAS BORN IN AMERICA.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT EARLIER THIS YEAR, MASOUD LEARNED ABOUT A DIFFERENT SIDE OF AMERICA. HE WAS ONE OF THOUSANDS OF MIDDLE EASTERN MALE IMMIGRANTS WITHOUT GREEN CARDS WHO HAD TO UNDERGO SPECIAL INS REGISTRATION. HE LEFT WORK EARLY ONE DAY TO GO TO THE INS AND SUDDENLY FOUND HIMSELF DETAINED, FIRST IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES AND LATER BEHIND BARS IN A MEDIUM SECURITY PRISON IN SAN DIEGO.

MASOUD KHOSHNEVIS>> I WAS COMPLETELY SHOCKED. I ASKED THEM HOW LONG AND THEY SAID TWO TO FIVE DAYS AND I SAID EVEN TWO TO FIVE SECONDS IS TOO MUCH BECAUSE I DON’T THINK I DID ANYTHING IN MY LIFE TO DESERVE TO BE DETAINED.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MASOUD WAS A FIELD INSPECTOR WITH AN ENGINEERING COMPANY BASED IN SAN DIEGO AND ONE OF HIS FIRST WORRIES WAS WHAT TO SAY TO HIS BOSS. HE’D BEEN ON THE JOB FOR BARELY A MONTH. SO MASOUD DECIDED HIS WIFE WOULD TELL HIS EMPLOYER THAT HE’D BEEN CALLED TO THE BEDSIDE OF A SICK RELATIVE.

MASOUD KHOSHNEVIS>> I THOUGHT THAT A SMALL LIE WON’T HURT ANYBODY. HE WON’T HEAR ANYTHING. IF I BE DETAINED AND I TELL MY BOSS, HEY, I’M IN INS PRISON, MAYBE HE WOULDN’T HEAR INS. HE WOULD HEAR PRISON AND IT WOULDN’T LOOK GOOD FOR ME.

BOB RANDALLS>> THE STORY WAS THAT HIS DAD WAS VERY ILL AND HE HAD TO GO TO FLORIDA AND IT WOULD BE TWO TO FIVE DAYS, THAT HE JUST NEEDED TO TAKE CARE OF THIS. AFTER SEVEN OR EIGHT DAYS, I CALLED HIS WIFE TO SEE -- WE HADN’T HEARD FROM HIM -- TO FIND OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON AND THE STORY GOT BIGGER AND BETTER AND DEEPER.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BOB RANDALLS IS PRESIDENT OF ACUTEC ENGINEERING AND MASOUD’S EMPLOYER. EVENTUALLY, RANDALLS GOT ANOTHER STORY THAT MASOUD’S FATHER HAD DIED AND THAT HE HAD TAKEN THE BODY BACK TO IRAN FOR BURIAL. RANDALLS WAS TOLD THE WHOLE PROCESS MIGHT TAKE SIX WEEKS.

BOB RANDALLS>> IT WAS THE TYPE OF SUBJECT THAT I DIDN’T WANT TO BE TOO INVASIVE IN MY QUESTIONS, SO I JUST TOOK IT AT FACE VALUE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT THEN A REPORTER CALLED AND RANDALLS FINALLY GOT THE TRUTH. MASOUD WAS IN FEDERAL CUSTODY AND A DISPUTED TEN-YEAR-OLD DEPORTATION ORDER WAS THE REASON. IN VIOLATION OF U.S. TOURIST VISA RULES, MASOUD HAD TAKEN A ONE-DAY TRIP TO CANADA. HIS ATTORNEY HAD BEEN WORKING WITH THE INS SINCE 2000 TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE AND IMMIGRATIONS HAD NEVER REGARDED HIM AS A THREAT. BUT IN THE POST-9/11 WORLD, ALL THAT CHANGED AND MASOUD FOUND HIMSELF IN JAIL.

BOB RANDALLS>> MY IMMEDIATE REACTION WAS THAT HE WAS A TERRORIST AND THEY HAD CAUGHT HIM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE REPORTER QUICKLY TOLD RANDALLS THAT WASN’T THE CASE AND EXPLAINED THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT LED TO MASOUD’S DETENTION.

BOB RANDALLS>> I WAS DISAPPOINTED THAT HE WASN’T ABLE TO BE HONEST WITH ME BECAUSE I’M A FAIRLY OPEN PERSON AND, IF HE’D JUST TOLD ME THE TRUTH RIGHT OFF THE BAT, I MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HELP HIM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> FOR MASOUD, THE ORDEAL LASTED TWO AND A HALF MONTHS. THAT’S HOW LONG HE WAS IN PRISON AND HIS FAMILY ALSO SUFFERED.

POURAN AYOUBI>> IT WAS HARD FOR MY DAUGHTER, ESPECIALLY FOR MY DAUGHTER, BECAUSE SHE IS ONLY SEVEN YEARS OLD.

NIKKI KHOSHNEVIS>> I WAS A LITTLE BIT SAD. I WAS CRYING EVERY DAY AND I WAS WONDERING WHEN HE WOULD COME HOME, SO I TOOK ONE OF HIS SHIRTS AND I SLEPT WITH IT.

POURAN AYOUBI>> AND THEN I WAS THINKING ABOUT MY MORTGAGE. HOW CAN I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN’T PAY MY MORTGAGE, YOU KNOW, BY MYSELF ALONE.

AMIR KHOSHNEVIS>> I WAS VERY DESPERATE, SO I JUST PICKED UP ANY JOB I COULD GET RIGHT AWAY WHICH HAPPENED TO BE AT A MCDONALDS. I WORKED RIGHT AFTER SCHOOL FROM THREE TO MIDNIGHT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> FINALLY, FEDERAL AUTHORITIES ALLOWED MASOUD TO POST BAIL, $10,000 IN CASH WHICH HIS WIFE MANAGED TO RAISE.

MASOUD KHOSHNEVIS>> MY WIFE AND MY SON WERE WAITING FOR ME OUTSIDE AND IT WAS KIND OF RAINY, SO WHEN I GOT THERE, I FELT LIKE CRYING.

NIKKI KHOSHNEVIS>> AND THEN I WAS AT MY FRIEND’S HOUSE AND MY FRIEND’S MOM SAID THAT SHE HAD A SURPRISE FOR ME AND I DIDN’T EVEN KNOW THE SURPRISE. BUT THEN SHE TOLD ME MY DAD CALLED AND HE SAID HE WAS ON HIS WAY COMING HOME. I WAS SO HAPPY THAT I JUMPED UP AND I KEPT SCREAMING.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THEN IT WAS BACK TO HIS OLD LIFE AND, HOPEFULLY, BACK TO WORK, THOUGH MASOUD HAD NO GUARANTEES ESPECIALLY SINCE HE HAD LIED TO THE BOSS ABOUT WHY HE WAS GONE.

MASOUD KHOSHNEVIS>> I DIDN’T EXPECT THAT HE’D GIVE MY JOB BACK TO ME, BUT I WASN’T SURPRISED. BUT I WAS SURPRISED THAT HE GAVE ME A RAISE. THAT WAS A BIG SURPRISE BECAUSE I DIDN’T EXPECT THAT.

BOB RANDALLS>> I FELT REALLY SORRY FOR HIM THAT HE HAD BEEN -- DUE TO AN ADMINISTRATIVE GLITCH TO A GUY THAT SEEMS TO BE HARDWORKING AND EVERYTHING THAT AMERICA STANDS FOR IS IN PRISON FOR TEN WEEKS FOR NOTHING THAT HE HAD DONE WRONG.

MASOUD KHOSHNEVIS>> BEFORE, HE WAS JUST MY BOSS. THAT’S IT. BUT NOW, I FEEL VERY CLOSE TO HIM. I MEAN, I DON’T WANT TO SAY HE’S MY DAD. I’D SAY HE’S MY BIG BROTHER.

JESS>> AFTER MASOUD WAS TAKEN INTO CUSTODY, HIS SON BEGAN CALLING EVERYONE HE COULD THINK OF FOR HELP. THAT INCLUDED THE GOVERNOR’S OFFICE AND EVEN THE LOS ANGELES LAKERS. THINGS FINALLY TURNED AROUND AFTER THE SON CALLED THE LOS ANGELES TIMES AND A REPORTER THERE STARTED ASKING QUESTIONS.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, SEXUAL IDENTITY AND CIVIL RIGHTS. WE’LL FIND OUT WHY SOME STATE LAWMAKERS ARE PUSHING A NEW BILL TO PROTECT TRANSGENDERS.

>> THIS COUNTRY DOES HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF DISCRIMINATION AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE’RE JUST THE LATEST WHIPPING GIRLS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF LAST NIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES “WHAT DO YOU THINK?” POLL: SHOULD CONDORS BE KEPT IN CAPTIVITY FOR THEIR OWN PROTECTION? AGREE: FORTY-NINE PERCENT, DISAGREE: FIFTY-ONE PERCENT. LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG TO WEIGH IN ON A NEW QUESTION TOMORROW.

JESS>> THE STATE’S $35 BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET SHORTFALL STILL ISN’T RESOLVED DESPITE WEEKS OF PARTISAN WRANGLING IN SACRAMENTO. MOST REPUBLICANS HAVE MADE IT CLEAR THEY WANT NO PART OF RAISING TAXES.

VAL>> BUT THE GOVERNOR HAS REASON TO WORRY ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES IF TAXES AREN’T RAISED. ONE OF THE PLANS GRAY DAVIS AND OTHERS ARE CONSIDERING WOULD ALLOW CALIFORNIA TO BORROW ITS WAY OUT OF THE CRISIS, AT LEAST IN PART. THE TROUBLE IS, THE BIG WALL STREET BANKS AND BOND FIRMS MAY NOT BE WILLING TO LEND US MONEY UNLESS THE STATE SHOWS IT CAN GENERATE MORE REVENUE WITH HIGHER TAXES. WELL, TONIGHT WE TALK WITH USC POLITICAL PROFESSOR, SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE, ABOUT THE BUDGET MELTDOWN AND THE CHANCES OF FIXING IT.

JESS>> WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF GETTING A BUDGET BY JUNE 1?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> WELL, I THINK I'LL TAKE ANY BET YOU WANT TO GIVE ME, JESS. I WILL TAKE THE BET THAT WE WON'T HAVE A BUDGET. WE WON'T HAVE A BUDGET BY JULY 1 --

JESS>> -- WHICH IS WHAT THE CONSTITUTION CALLS FOR.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> WHICH IS THE BEGINNING OF THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR. NOW I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT SOME OF MY SOURCES UP THERE ARE CERTAIN THEY WILL HAVE A BUDGET IN SIX WEEKS. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TELLING ME, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A BUDGET.

JESS>> BUT THERE ARE SIGNS OF COMPROMISE, ARE THERE NOT?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> YEAH, THEY'RE COMPROMISING ON HOW FAR INTO THE FUTURE THEY'RE GOING TO DELAY THE PAIN. THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT'S GOING ON UP THERE (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> NOW TO ME, IT'S GOT TO BE COMPOSED OF A VARIETY OF THINGS. TAX CUTS AND CUTS IN SERVICES AND BENEFITS AND NOW A VISIT FROM ALL THE WALL STREET INVESTMENT FIRMS BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BORROW A COUPLE OF BILLION --

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> -- WE HAVE TO HAVE A BRIDGE LOAN JUST TO GET THROUGH THIS CURRENT YEAR. I MEAN, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A CURRENT DEFICIT AT THE END OF THIS BUDGET YEAR AND, QUITE FRANKLY, EVERYBODY KEEP YOUR EARS OPEN ON MAY 14, I THINK IT IS. THAT'S WHEN THE GOVERNOR COMES OUT WITH HIS MAY REVISE, THE BUDGET REVISIONS, THE REAL POST-TAX BUDGET REVISIONS, AND WE'RE GOING TO SEE A DEFICIT THAT'S EVEN LARGER FOR THIS CURRENT --

JESS>> -- SO WE'RE REALLY NOT TALKING TAX CUT. WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A TAX INCREASE PLUS A CUT IN SERVICES, RIGHT?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> YOU'D BETTER TALK TO THE LEGISLATURE (LAUGHTER). DON'T TALK TO ME. I MEAN, I CAN'T --

JESS>> -- THAT JUST MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE, HUH?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE OF ME FIGURE OUT HOW YOU CAN HONESTLY CLOSE A DEFICIT THAT MAY BE UP TO $35 BILLION DOLLARS WITHOUT SOME REVENUE ENHANCEMENTS.

JESS>> INCLUDING BORROWING?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> BORROWING, BONDS, TAX INCREASES, PROGRAM CUTS. YOU'VE GOT TO THROW EVERYTHING ON THE TABLE AND DO IT SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

VAL>> SO THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS OR ARE THERE SOME --

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> -- THERE OUGHT NOT TO BE, VAL, BUT YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I DO THAT THERE WILL BE SOME SACRED COWS. THE REPUBLICANS ARE REALLY FIRM IN THEIR ANTIPATHY TOWARD INCREASING TAXES AT THIS POINT.

VAL>> BUT I THINK THEY'RE WILLING TO DO A LITTLE BIT IF, I GUESS, THERE ARE CUTS IN EDUCATION AND --

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> -- THIS WAS BORROWING. THIS WAS THE COMPROMISE THAT THE DEMOCRATS GET TO CUT EDUCATION.

JESS>> THIS IS THE NOTION OF PHIL ANGELIDES, THE STATE TREASURE, THAT WE CAN BORROW OUR WAY OUT OF THIS DEFICIT?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> APPARENTLY. HE IS ONE OF THE ONES WHO ARE PUSHING IT. HOWEVER, AGAIN, IN THE REPUBLICANS' BUDGET PLAN, THERE WAS A PROPOSAL TO SORT OF ROLL OVER THE DEBT FOR FIVE YEARS AND THEN, FIVE YEARS OUT, WE WOULD HAVE CLOSED THE BUDGET DEFICIT. I MEAN, YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT, QUITE FRANKLY, BORROWING, BONDING, ROLLING OVER? IT'S ALL ABOUT TERM LIMITS.

THIS LEGISLATURE AND THIS GOVERNOR CAN DO A SUCCESSFUL SHELL GAME, IF YOU WILL, USE THE BLUE SMOKE AND MIRRORS TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THINGS ARE HUNKY-DORY AND THEN OUT THEY GO. THEY'RE OUT. TERM LIMITS. SO THEIR SUCCESSORS ARE FACED WITH THE ECONOMIC PAIN THAT COMES DUE WHEN YOU'VE GOT TO PAY EVERYTHING BACK.

VAL>> SO THEY'RE OUT THE DOOR AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE RAMIFICATIONS OR ANY KIND OF MESSES THAT WILL OCCUR THREE, FOUR OR FIVE YEARS FROM NOW?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> EXACTLY. THEY GET THE POLITICAL GAIN, THEY LOOK LIKE THEY'VE SOLVED THE PROBLEM AND THEY DUCK THE ECONOMIC PAIN BECAUSE THEY'RE GONE.

VAL>> ALSO, BECAUSE OF TERM LIMITS, THERE'S A LOT OF NEOPHYTES THERE THAT ARE JUST NOT AS ADEPT AT SOLVING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> HOW KIND OF YOU TO PUT IT THAT WAY, VAL (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> EVEN WORSE, THEY DON'T HAVE A LEADER WITH LONG TENURE AND A LONG WHIP TO GET THEM IN LINE.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> EXACTLY. YOU KNOW, IT'S THE PERFECT STORM AGAIN, IF YOU WILL. THEY HAVE NO INSTITUTIONAL MEMORY. THEIR STAFF IS NOT A POLICY STAFF, PER SE, THAT'S BEEN THERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME. THE LEADER CAN'T REALLY GET THEM TO MARCH TOGETHER IF THEY DON'T WANT TO MARCH TOGETHER BECAUSE THEY ALL KNOW THE LEADER IS GOING TO BE GONE AND PROBABLY BEFORE MOST OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE GONE. SO YOU'VE GOT A SITUATION UP THERE IN WHICH THERE IS A VACUUM OF EXPERIENCE, OF THE BETTER PART OF LONGEVITY -- WE CAN ARGUE THE NEGATIVE TOO -- AND A LEADERSHIP THAT REALLY HAS VERY FEW CARROTS AND FEWER STICKS TO GET THE MEMBERSHIP TOGETHER.

JESS>> BUT IF YOU PUT TERM LIMITS ON THE BALLOT, THE VOTERS WOULD STILL SUPPORT TERM LIMITS, WOULD THEY NOT?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> I WOULD EXPECT THAT'S TRUE. SUPPORT HAS GONE DOWN, BUT WHEN THE LEGISLATURE HAS APPROACHED THAT PROBLEM, THEY'VE APPROACHED IT ALL WRONG. OKAY, VOTERS, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO LET YOU DO. YOUR INCUMBENT GETS TWENTY PERCENT OF THE DISTRICT TO SIGN ON TO ALLOW HIM ONE MORE TERM. OH, REALLY? AND WHO ARE THE INCUMBENTS? THE GUYS WHO PUT THE TERM LIMITS ON THE BALLOT.

WHAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED IS A LONG-TERM -- EXCUSE THE PUN -- EDUCATIONAL DEBATE OVER WHERE WE ARE WITH REGARD TO THE SIX AND EIGHT YEAR TERM LIMITS. I THINK SOME TIME IN THE NEAR FUTURE THAT THIS STATE IS GOING TO BE READY TO AT LEAST LOOK AT A TWELVE YEAR TENURE AND THERE ARE SOME PROPOSALS. THERE IS ONE PROPOSAL FLOATING AROUND THAT WOULD ALLOW LEGISLATORS, IF THEY SO CHOOSE, TO SPEND THEIR TWELVE YEARS IN ONE HOUSE OR FOURTEEN YEARS IN ONE HOUSE OR FOURTEEN YEARS IN WHICHEVER HOUSE THEY CHOOSE, ANY COMBINATION OF THE ABOVE. THAT'S THE FIRST STEP. I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO OVERTURN TERM LIMITS FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

VAL>> WELL, NO MATTER WHAT THE FATE OF TERM LIMITS IS IN THE LONG-TERM, IN THE MEANTIME, WE'RE LOOKING AT, WHAT, OVER $300 MILLION DOLLARS IN CUTS IN K THROUGH TWELVE EDUCATION AND OVER $300 MILLION DOLLARS IN HEALTHCARE. WE'RE LOOKING AT OUR YOUNGEST AND MOST VULNERABLE CITIZENS.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> THERE IS AN AXIOM IN PUBLIC POLICY ANALYSIS AND IT'S THAT THERE IS NO BETTER INDICATION OF A SOCIETY'S PRIORITIES THAN ITS BUDGET. AND MY COROLLARY IS, THAN WHAT IT DOES TO BALANCE THE BUDGET. I THINK WE'VE GOT TO LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THAT FRAMEWORK.

JESS>> AND THAT BOTH PARTIES HAVE SUPPORTED CUTS.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> WELL, YEAH, BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF POLITICAL WILL. THERE IS A LACK OF LEADERSHIP. NOBODY WANTS TO DESTROY THEIR POLITICAL CAREER AT THIS POINT IN TIME. THIS IS PARTICULARLY TRUE -- WELL, WE'VE GOT A VERY CAUTIOUS GOVERNOR. WE ALL KNOW THAT. I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE HE'S PLANNING HE'S GOING TO GO FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008. I DON'T KNOW, BUT HE IS NOT GOING TO TOUCH THE THIRD RAIL OF RAISING TAXES. THEN YOU'VE GOT A REPUBLICAN CAUCUS IN THE ASSEMBLY AND THE SENATE WHO COME OUT OF PRIMARIES WHICH ARE CLOSED AGAIN AND WHICH GENERATE VERY CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS. THEY DON'T WANT TO RAISE TAXES. THEY'VE GOT A CONSERVATIVE OPPONENT IN THEIR PRIMARY AND THEY'RE AFRAID THEY'LL BE VOTED OUT.

VAL>> SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE FROM USC, ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU COME ON AND RAIL AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT (LAUGHTER).

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> (LAUGHTER) ONLY WHEN THEY DESERVE IT.

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) YES, WHICH KEEPS YOU AS A REGULAR GUEST.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> THANK YOU.

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> IF YOU'VE GOT DREAMS OF GETTING RICH QUICK OR LOSING THIRTY POUNDS IN A MONTH, THE ANSWERS MAY BE IN YOUR E-MAIL. BUT PATT SAYS OPEN THOSE MESSAGES WITH CARE. THAT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> STOP THE PRESSES. THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION SAYS THAT MOST E-MAIL SPAM ISN'T TELLING US THE TRUTH. YOU DON'T SAY. YOU MEAN THAT I CAN'T GET AN INSTANT HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLAR LINE OF CREDIT, ADD THREE INCHES TO VARIOUS BODY PARTS OVERNIGHT AND LOSE FIFTY POUNDS A WEEK WHILE I SLEEP? WHAT KIND OF WORLD DO WE LIVE IN? THE FTC'S RANDOM SAMPLING OF A THOUSAND SPAM MESSAGES, WHICH IS ABOUT HOW MANY I GET EVERY DAY, FOUND THAT TWO IN THREE VIOLATE SOME FEDERAL LAW.

LATELY I'VE ALSO BEEN GETTING MANY EASY MONEY SPAMS FROM AN INTERNATIONAL FRAUD RING, SOMEONE FROM A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, OFTEN NIGERIA BUT SOMETIMES THE PHILIPPINES OR SOUTH AFRICA. THE SON OR WIFE OR RIGHT HAND MAN OF A MAJOR POLITICIAN IS SOLICITING YOU CONFIDENTIALLY TO HELP RETRIEVE MULTIPLE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THEY'VE STASHED AWAY AND REWARD YOU HANDSOMELY FOR DOING IT. SOMETIMES IT'S THE MILLIONS THEY'VE RIPPED OFF FROM THEIR COUNTRYMEN OR THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LEFT BEHIND BY SOME FOREIGNER WHO DIED IN A CAR CRASH OR A PLANE CRASH WITH NO WILL, NO RELATIVES, AND THEY WANT YOU TO PRETEND YOU'RE THE HEIR AND SPLIT THE DOUGH. OR THEIR FATHER WAS FOULLY ASSASSINATED BEFORE HE COULD GET THE $85 MILLION BUCKS OUT OF HIS NUMBERED ACCOUNT. THE STORIES GET BETTER AND BETTER AND THE PROMISES GET BIGGER AND BIGGER.

NOW YOU'D THINK THAT ANYONE WHO'S EVER OWNED A PIGGY BANK WOULD SEE THROUGH THIS FEEBLE PLOY, BUT HUNDREDS OF AMERICANS WITH DREAMS OF AVARICE HAVE HANDED OVER THEIR PERSONAL DATA, INCLUDING BANK ACCOUNT NUMBERS, AND THEN A GLITCH DEVELOPS. SOMEONE MUST BE BRIBED, FEES MUST BE PAID AND, THE NEXT THING THE PIGEON KNOWS, THERE ARE NO MILLIONS AND NO NIGERIANS OR FILIPINOS. THERE'S ONLY A BIG HOLE IN HIS BANK ACCOUNT.

ONE WEBSITE CALLED "SCAMORAMA" HAS FUN PRETENDING TO PLAY ALONG TO SEE HOW FAR THE FRAUDSTERS WILL BITE, EVEN BELIEVING E-MAILS THAT WERE SIGNED WITH NAMES LIKE J. EDGAR HOOVER, BUT THE SECRET SERVICE ISN'T LAUGHING. ACTUALLY, IT NEVER LAUGHS ANYWAY. THEY CALL IT THE NIGERIAN ADVANCE FEE FRAUD AND MORE THAN A DOZEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE TO NIGERIA TO TRY TO GET THEIR MONEY BACK HAVE BEEN MURDERED. THERE ARE CENTURIES OF CLICHÉS ABOUT GET RICH QUICK SCHEMES, BUT THE NEXT TIME YOU BOOT UP AND SIGN ON, COME UP WITH A NEW ONE -- LIKE CAVEAT E-MAILER.

VAL>> LAST MONTH, A HUNTER IN KERN COUNTY ALLEGEDLY SHOT AND KILLED AN ENDANGERED CALIFORNIA CONDOR. BRITON LEWIS WAS ON A PIG HUNT ON A PRIVATE RANCH WHEN THE SHOOTING HAPPENED. THE CONDOR WAS A THIRTY-YEAR-OLD FEMALE, ONE OF THE OLDEST BIRDS LIVING IN THE WILD.

JESS>> NOW ENVIRONMENTALISTS SAY THE HUNTER IS GETTING OFF TOO EASY. ONLY SEVENTY-NINE CALIFORNIA CONDORS REMAIN IN THE WILD, 118 ARE LIVING IN CAPTIVITY. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS SPENT $35 MILLION DOLLARS ON EFFORTS TO SAVE THE ENDANGERED SPECIES, SO WHAT WENT WRONG IN KERN COUNTY? WE PUT THAT QUESTION TO MARK CLARK, A CONDOR SPECIALIST WITH THE LOS ANGELES ZOO. ANY QUESTION IN YOUR MIND THAT BRITON COLE LEWIS OF TEHACHAPI WHO SHOT THE CONDOR KNEW IT WAS A CONDOR?

MARK CLARK>> IN MY MIND, NO. SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT HE WAS GIVEN PAMPHLETS SPECIFICALLY SAYING DO NOT SHOOT ANY LARGE BIRD ON THE RANCH. WE HAVE EAGLES, CONDORS AND TURKEY VULTURES THERE AND HE WAS SPECIFICALLY TOLD NOT TO DO SO.

JESS>> NOW HE'S FROM TEHACHAPI, SO HE'S, I WOULD ASSUME, ACCUSTOMED TO SEEING CONDORS FLY, RIGHT?

MARK CLARK>> SURE, AND TURKEY VULTURES AND EAGLES.

VAL>> SO WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW DID YOU OR WHOEVER FOUND IT ACTUALLY DISCOVER THE BIRD?

MARK CLARK>> WELL, U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE BIOLOGIST, MARK HALL, WAS GOING OVER THE SATELLITE DATA. AC-8 HAD A SATELLITE TRANSMITTER --

VAL>> -- AC-8 IS THE NAME OF THE CONDOR?

MARK CLARK>> RIGHT. ADULT CONDOR 8 IN THE WILD IN THE 1980'S WHEN THEY WERE TRACKING BACK THEN. SHE WAS FITTED WITH A SATELLITE TRANSMITTER ON HER WING. IT WAS TRACKING ALL THE MOVEMENTS.

VAL>> IN FACT, ALL CONDORS, AS PART OF THE PROJECT, ARE GIVEN THE TRANSMITTER?

MARK CLARK>> YEAH.

JESS>> THIS IS THE MOMENT WHEN THEY WERE APPLYING THE TRANSMITTER, RIGHT?

MARK CLARK>> YEAH. THIS IS AC-8 ON THE EXAMINATION TABLE RIGHT BEFORE SHE WENT OUT TO THE WILD.

VAL>> SO IT SENDS DATA UP TO A SATELLITE?

MARK CLARK>> YEAH. SHE HAS TWO TRANSMITTERS. THE SATELLITE TRANSMITTER AND A RADIO TRANSMITTER, BOTH AFFIXED TO THE WINGS. THE SATELLITE TRANSMITTER IS SORT OF BROAD. YOU KNOW, IS SHE IN THE SIERRAS? IS SHE IN, YOU KNOW, SANTA BARBARA? IS SHE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA?

JESS>> IS SHE ALIVE? THAT'S ANOTHER --

MARK CLARK>> -- IS SHE ALIVE? YEAH.

JESS>> IF THE BIRD IS DEAD OR IMMOBILIZED, THE TRANSMITTER TELLS YOU SO?

MARK CLARK>> YES, IT WILL SEND OFF A MORTALITY SIGNAL THAT STAYS IN ONE POSITION FOR MORE THAN SOMETHING LIKE TEN HOURS OR SOMETHING. THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE GOING IN AFTER. HE FOUND THAT THE BIRD WAS NOT MOVING FOR A DAY OR SO, SO HE TRIED TO GET ACCESS TO THE RANCH BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT WAS. USING THE RADIO RECEIVER, ONCE HE MOVED INTO THE RANCH, HE WAS ABLE TO ZERO IN HER POSITION.

VAL>> SO HE FOUND HER AND AN AUTOPSY SHOWED THAT IT WAS DEFINITELY GUNSHOT. THEN HOW DID YOU GET LED TO THE SUSPECT, THIS HUNTER?

MARK CLARK>> I BELIEVE THE FBI FOUND HIM.

VAL> REALLY? SO HE IS NOW CHARGED WITH WHAT?

MARK CLARK>> WHAT HE'S CHARGED WITH IS SHOOTING A MIGRATORY BIRD.

VAL>> BUT NOT AN ENDANGERED SPECIES? A MIGRATORY BIRD IS DIFFERENT FROM AN ENDANGERED SPECIES?

MARK CLARK>> YES, IT IS.

JESS>> AND THE PENALTY IS MUCH HEAVIER FOR ENDANGERED SPECIES?

MARK CLARK>> YES, IT IS, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IN 1998, THERE WAS A CLAUSE PUT IN THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT WHERE THE PERSON WHO SHOOTS ONE OR IS ACCUSED OF SHOOTING ONE CAN ONLY BE CONVICTED IF HE KNEW IT WAS AN ENDANGERED SPECIES.

VAL>> I SEE. AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVE WHAT A PERSON MIGHT HAVE KNOWN OR NOT KNOWN AT THE MOMENT THAT THEY SHOT SOMETHING.

JESS>> HE DIDN'T RECOVER HIS TROPHY WHEN HE SHOT IT, DID HE?

MARK CLARK>> NO. I BELIEVE THE BIRD GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE TREE THAT IT WAS SHOT OUT OF.

JESS>> SO HE COULDN'T GET TO IT?

MARK CLARK>> SO HE COULDN'T GET TO IT OR DIDN'T WANT IT, ONE OR THE OTHER, BUT THAT'S WHERE THE BIRD WAS FOUND. IT WAS UP IN THE TREE.

VAL>> I SEE. NOW HAS THIS PERSON BEEN ACTUALLY TRIED YET OR JUST CHARGED?

MARK CLARK>> NO, JUST CHARGED.

VAL>> OKAY. AND THERE IS ALSO ANOTHER CHARGE PENDING AGAINST HIM THAT DEALS WITH ANOTHER ENDANGERED SPECIES? A DEER?

JESS>> WHITE-TAILED DEER. IT'S NOT AN ENDANGERED SPECIES.

MARK CLARK>> I DON'T THINK IT'S AN ENDANGERED SPECIES, BUT WHAT HAPPENED IS I BELIEVE THAT HE TOOK IT OUT OF STATE, OR IS ACCUSED OF TAKING IT OUT OF STATE IN ILLINOIS, AND THEN TRANSFERRED IT OVER STATE LINES TO CALIFORNIA.

JESS>> YOU'VE BEEN IN THE CONDOR PROGRAM FOR SOME YEARS. HOW WOULD YOU GAUGE ITS SUCCESS?

MARK CLARK>> I WOULD SAY IT'S ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT WE'VE EXPECTED. IN THE 1980'S --

JESS>> -- IN SPITE OF THE DISAPPOINTMENTS?

MARK CLARK>> OH, YEAH. WE EXPECTED DISAPPOINTMENTS. WE EXPECTED LOSSES. WE WEREN'T EXPECTING THIS KIND OF A LOSS WITH HER.

JESS>> LEAD POISONING, HIGH TENSION LINES OR HIGH VOLTAGE LINES?

MARK CLARK>> YES. HIT BY CARS, ALL KINDS OF THINGS. BUT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, THIS IS A SPECIES THAT'S TOTALLY RELIANT ON -- ITS SURVIVAL IS RELIANT ON A SOCIAL STRUCTURE IN PLACE. ONCE THEY MOVE INTO THIS NEW LIFE AS A CHICK, THEY'RE RELYING ON ALL THE ADULTS' EXPERIENCES. EVERYTHING THEY DO IS LEARNED.

VAL>> AND THIS PARTICULAR ADULT THAT WAS KILLED WAS A FEMALE, THIRTY YEARS OLD, VERY EXPERIENCED. IN FACT, WAS SHE NOT OUT THERE TO KIND OF MENTOR THE YOUNGER ONES?

MARK CLARK>> EXACTLY. THIRTY YEARS, IF NOT MORE.

JESS>> SHE ALSO PRODUCED A NUMBER OF OFFSPRING.

MARK CLARK>> SURE. TWELVE TO FOURTEEN OFFSPRING IN CAPTIVITY.

VAL>> WHAT WAS HER LIFE EXPECTANCY IF SHE HAD NOT BEEN SHOT?

MARK CLARK>> SHE COULD GO ON FOR ANOTHER TEN OR TWENTY YEARS.

JESS>> REALLY?

MARK CLARK>> YEAH, SHE WAS IN REALLY GOOD HEALTH WHEN SHE WENT OUT. VERY VIGOROUS.

VAL>> SO NOW THERE ARE SEVENTY-NINE IN THE WILD HERE IN CALIFORNIA, AND ABOUT ANOTHER 118 IN CAPTIVITY. AT WHAT POINT WILL YOU DECLARE CONDORS SAFE AND NO LONGER ENDANGERED?

MARK CLARK>> WELL, PER THE RECOVERY TEAM, THE GOAL IS FOUR HUNDRED BIRDS, TWO 150-BIRD POPULATIONS SEPARATE IN THE WILD, SELF-SUSTAINING AND ANOTHER 150 IN CAPTIVITY. THAT COULD COME A LOT FASTER THAN YOU THINK.

JESS>> WE KEEP HEARING REPORTS OF EGGS THAT ARE ABANDONED OR DESTROYED OR CHICKS THAT AREN'T PROPERLY CARED FOR. IS THAT A PROBLEM?

MARK CLARK>> NO, THERE WAS NEVER ANY ABANDONMENT IN THE CHICKS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WHAT WE'RE FINDING OUT IS THAT THE ENVIRONMENT ITSELF IS A LOT MORE POLLUTED THAN WE THINK IT IS. THE LEAD POISONING, SOME OF THE NESTS THAT HAVE BEEN FOUND, THERE ARE HUMAN ARTIFACTS -- NOT HUMAN BONES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT JUST ARTIFACTS. BOTTLE CAPS, WASHERS, THINGS THAT THE BIRDS ARE PICKING UP SOMEWHERE AND FEEDING TO THE CHICKS. THE BIRDS HAVE A NATURALLY LOW CALCIUM INTAKE BECAUSE THEY'RE EATING CARRION. THEY'RE NOT EATING A LOT OF BONE, SO ANYTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE BONE, LITTLE CHIPS OF BONE, THEY'RE PICKING THEM UP.

VAL>> AND REAL QUICKLY, WHEN YOU GET NEWS LIKE THIS THAT A CONDOR HAS BEEN SHOT, WHAT'S THE FEELING LIKE? WHAT'S THE DISCUSSION LIKE AMONG YOU?

MARK CLARK>> WELL, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF BIRDS THAT HAVE BEEN RELEASED AND THEN TURNED UP DEAD. LOTS OF YOUNG BIRDS, INEXPERIENCED BIRDS, ARE KILLED BY COYOTES, EAGLES, WHATEVER. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A BIRD LIKE THIS WHO WAS CONSIDERED THE MATRIARCH OF THE WHOLE PROGRAM, SHE HAD A LONG, LONG HISTORY. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BIOLOGISTS THAT WERE WATCHING HER IN THE 1970'S. TO HAVE JUST SOME PERSON -- IF THE GUY HAD ANY IDEA OF THE GRAVITY AND THE PEOPLE HE TOUCHED WHEN HE DID THAT ONE EVENT, I THINK HE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT TWICE ABOUT IT.

VAL>> HEARTBREAKING. MARK CLARK FROM THE LOS ANGELES ZOO CONDOR RECOVERY PROJECT, THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

MARK CLARK>> VAL, JESS, THANKS.

VAL>> THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS AND GOOD NIGHT.

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