5/8/03

LC030508

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> IT’S STILL LEGAL IN MOST PLACES, BUT MAYBE NOT FOR LONG. TONIGHT THE POLITICAL DOGFIGHT OVER DECLAWING CATS.

JOHN DURAN>> THE CAT, OVER THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF EVOLUTION, WHETHER YOU’RE A BELIEVER IN DARWIN OR A BELIEVER IN A CREATOR, THE CAT WAS MADE A CERTAIN WAY, TO HAVE CLAWS, TO SCRATCH FOR SELF-DEFENSE, TO SCRATCH IN THE LITTER BOX, TO CLIMB TREES. THAT’S HOW THEY’RE DESIGNED.

VAL>> AND THEN THE NEW DEBATE OVER AN OLD PROBLEM. HAS CALIFORNIA LEARNED ITS LESSON ABOUT DEREGULATION AND THE ENERGY BUSINESS?

JESS>> PLUS, SOME VINTAGE ART FROM THE FOOD CRATES OF CALIFORNIA’S PAST.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> IS IT A PET OWNER’S CHOICE OR AN EXAMPLE OF ANIMAL CRUELTY?

JESS>> THOSE ARE THE QUESTIONS FUELING A HEATED POLITICAL DEBATE. IT’S ALL ABOUT CATS AND WHETHER THEY SHOULD BE DECLAWED. CAT OWNERS AND MAYBE THE NEIGHBORHOOD VET USED TO MAKE THE DECISION, BUT THEN SOME LOCAL OFFICIALS MADE THE DECLAWING OF CATS A POLITICAL ISSUE AND, AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, THEIR OUTRAGE SEEMS TO BE SPREADING UP AND DOWN THE STATE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> IT’S A NEW DAY FOR CATS IN WEST HOLLYWOOD. THE CITY COUNCIL HERE HAS OUTLAWED DECLAWING AND, SO FAR, THERE’S BEEN LITTLE COMPLAINT.

FRANK MCMILLAN>> I SUPPORT THE DECISION. HERE IN THIS PRACTICE, IT’S NOT PREVALENT AT ALL. WE TEND TO DISCOURAGE IT AND TALK ABOUT ALTERNATIVES TO OWNERS AND WE DON’T DO VERY MANY. ONE OR TWO OR WEEK POSSIBLY. NATIONWIDE, I CAN’T NECESSARILY SPEAK TO IT, BUT I KNOW IT IS DONE VERY COMMONLY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> FRANK MCMILLAN HAS BEEN A WEST HOLLYWOOD VETERINARIAN FOR SEVENTEEN YEARS.

FRANK MCMILLAN>> THE REASONS ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ARE DESTRUCTION OF PRIVATE PROPERTY, FURNITURE TYPE THINGS, THE DRAPERIES.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WEST HOLLYWOOD COUNCILMAN, JOHN DURAN, WAS A FORCE BEHIND THE CITY’S BAN ON DECLAWING.

JOHN DURAN>> WE FOUND AN OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF SUPPORT, A FEW PEOPLE WHO DISAGREED, MOSTLY AROUND THE NOTION OF PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS, THAT I CAN DO WITH MY PROPERTY WHAT I CHOOSE TO DO WITH MY PROPERTY. BUT THE WHOLE POINT OF THE ORDINANCE HAS BEEN CATS AND DOGS ARE NOT PROPERTY. THEY ARE NOT CHATTEL.

PHILIP BRUCE>> DURAN HAS NOT ALWAYS BEEN A BELIEVER. HE SAYS THIS WOMAN, VETERINARIAN JENNIFER CONRAD, WAS THE ONE WHO OPENED HIS EYES TO THE CRUELTY OF DECLAWING.

JOHN DURAN>> THE FIRST TIME I HEARD ABOUT IT, I SORT OF SHRUGGED MY SHOULDERS AND THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL BECAUSE I’VE ALWAYS DECLAWED MY CATS TO PROTECT FURNITURE. THEN WHEN SHE SAT AND SORT OF WALKED ME THROUGH WHAT A DECLAWING CONSISTS OF, IT’S NOT LIKE A NAIL CLIPPING. I THINK I WAS UNDER THE DELUSION IT WAS JUST CLIPPING A NAIL.

PHILIP BRUCE>> JENNIFER CONRAD SAYS SHE’S KNOWN BETTER SINCE HER VET SCHOOL DAYS BACK AT UC DAVIS.

JENNIFER CONRAD>> MANY OF MY FELLOW STUDENTS WERE TAUGHT TO DECLAW, BUT I WOULDN’T DO IT AND I’VE NEVER DONE A DECLAW IN MY WHOLE LIFE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THEN A FEW YEARS AGO, CONRAD STARTED DOING REHABILITATION SURGERY ON THE PAWS OF EXOTIC CATS SUFFERING THE EFFECTS OF DECLAWING. JAY IS A BOBCAT THAT’S CURRENTLY BEING CARED FOR AT AN EXOTIC WILDLIFE RESCUE STATION IN CULVER CITY. HE’S HER TWENTY-SECOND SUCH CASE.

JENNIFER CONRAD>> THESE ARE EXOTIC CATS THAT PEOPLE HAD AT ONE TIME THINKING THAT THEY WOULD BE A GOOD PET, THEN THEY ULTIMATELY DUMPED AT OUR SANCTUARY. I SAW SO MANY CATS THAT WERE DECLAWED AND I SAW THE PATHOLOGY THAT IT BROUGHT. THESE ANIMALS WERE SOMETIMES WALKING ON THEIR ELBOWS LIKE THIS OR, YOU KNOW, WALKING ON THEIR WRISTS INSTEAD OF UP ON THEIR TOES.

PHILIP BRUCE>> IN RECENT YEARS, CONRAD HAS TAKEN HER OWN OPPOSITION TO DECLAWING TO THE PUBLIC ARENA. HER MISSION IS TO ABOLISH DECLAW SURGERY FOR ALL CATS. SHE SET UP AN ORGANIZATION NAMED THE PAW PROJECT. ITS WEBSITE TELLS THE STORY OF KONA, A DECLAWED COUGAR.

JENNIFER CONRAD>> WHAT WE’RE SEEING IS A CAT THAT WAS DECLAWED AS A CUB ON ALL FOUR FEET. HE WAS IN SO MUCH PAIN BEFORE THE SURGERY THAT HE COULD BARELY WALK ACTUALLY. YOU CAN SEE HOW HIS FEET ARE FLAT AND PADDLE-LIKE LIKE HE HAS NO CONTROL OVER THEM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND THE SITE SHOWS IN GRAPHIC DETAIL WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A CAT IS DECLAWED.

JENNIFER CONRAD>> WHEN THE SURGERY IS DONE, THIS LAST PHALANX, THE EQUIVALENT OF THIS, YOUR WHOLE LAST BONE IN YOUR FINGER, IS AMPUTATED, CUTTING THE NERVE, THE MUSCLE, THE TENDONS, THE BONE, EVERYTHING. IT’S NOT JUST DECLAWING. IT’S TAKING THAT WHOLE THING OUT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> CONRAD SAYS THE PADS OF DECLAWED CATS OFTEN END UP DAMAGED.

JENNIFER CONRAD>> WHEN YOU SEE A PAW PRINT, YOU SEE THE PAD AND THE PAD IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR CUSHIONING THE CAT WALKING. WHEN THE CAT IS DECLAWED, THE PAD WILL OFTEN SHIFT BACKWARDS AND BECOME ATROPHIED.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND SHE SAYS BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS TYPICALLY FOLLOW IN DOMESTIC CATS LIKE THIS ONE.

JENNIFER CONRAD>> THIS CAT WAS DUMPED BY ITS OWNER BECAUSE IT WASN’T USING THE LITTER BOX AND SHE’S VERY SHY NOW WHERE SHE USED TO BE A VERY GREGARIOUS CAT. YOU CAN SEE HER LITTLE PADS HOW THEY’RE ATROPHIED AND THEY DON’T PROTECT HER BONES AT ALL WHEN SHE WALKS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> CONRAD SAYS DECLAWED CATS ARE ALSO MORE PRONE TO BITE. FRANK MCMILLAN AGREES THERE MAY BE BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS, BUT HE’S SEEN NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THOSE SUSPICIONS.

FRANK MCMILLAN>> STUDIES HAVE BEEN MORE ALONG THE LINES THAT THEY DON’T SEEM TO HAVE LONG-TERM CHANGES THAT ARE RECOGNIZABLE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT MCMILLAN WONDERS ABOUT THE THINGS THAT FORMAL STUDIES MAY HAVE MISSED, THE QUALITY OF LIFE THINGS THE DECLAWED
CAT MAY BE MISSING THAT HUMANS MIGHT OVERLOOK.

FRANK MCMILLAN>> MAYBE HE’S NOT GETTING SOMETHING OF THE STRETCHING OF THE MUSCLES OR THE FEELING OF WHAT THEY GET WHEN THEY CLAW. WE HAVE NOTHING TO RELATE IT TO SINCE WE DON’T DO ANY SUCH THING.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WHAT MCMILLAN DOES KNOW FOR CERTAIN IS THAT THE SURGERY IS PAINFUL AND THAT’S REASON ENOUGH NOT TO RECOMMEND IT. BUT MANY VETS HAVE NO TROUBLE WITH DECLAWING. THE CALIFORNIA VETERINARY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION OPPOSED THE WEST HOLLYWOOD BAN AS IT DID AN EFFORT IN SACRAMENTO TO ENACT A STATEWIDE BAN. THAT BILL FAILED TO GET OUT OF COMMITTEE IN THE FACE OF ARGUMENTS THAT DECLAWING MIGHT BE NEEDED FOR MEDICAL OR BEHAVIOR REASONS AND SHOULD BE HELD AS AN OPTION WHEN A CAT MIGHT OTHERWISE BE ABANDONED OR EUTHANIZED. JOHN DURAN WAS NOT SURPRISED.

JOHN DURAN>> IT’S A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT, THOUGH, IN SACRAMENTO. IN WEST HOLLYWOOD, WE HAVE FIVE PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS ON THE COUNCIL. A LOT OF SORT OF PROGRESSIVE CUTTING EDGE IDEAS START USUALLY ON THE LOCAL LEVEL AND IT TAKES A WHOLE LOT OF PUBLIC EDUCATION BEFORE THE PUBLIC SORT OF SEES WHY THE IDEA IS WORTHWHILE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT FRANK MCMILLAN SEES AS A BENEFIT OF WEST HOLLYWOOD’S NEW LAW.

FRANK MCMILLAN>> IN MY OPINION, THE VALUE OF THE LOCAL LAW IS MAINLY ITS EDUCATIONAL VALUE IN TERMS OF BRINGING THE ISSUE TO LIGHT THAT IT IS SOMETHING TO QUESTION.

PHILIP BRUCE>> JENNIFER CONRAD SAYS SHE’S NOT DISCOURAGED THAT THE STATEWIDE BAN WENT NOWHERE. SHE HOPES FOR A BETTER OUTCOME NEXT YEAR. AND FOR THE NEWLY-CONVERTED DURAN, THE ISSUE IS NOW VERY CLEAR.

JOHN DURAN>> IF PEOPLE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT ISSUES LIKE PROTECTING FURNITURE OR A CAT SCRATCH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT PERSON SHOULD THINK ABOUT AN IGUANA OR A GOLDFISH BECAUSE THAT’S HOW THEY’RE DESIGNED, TO BE SORT OF FURNITURE-FREE IN TERMS OF DAMAGE TO PROPERTY.

JESS>> AND CRITICS OF DECLAWING SAY THERE ARE SOME GOOD ALTERNATIVES AND THEY POINT OUT THAT A CAT’S NAILS COULD BE CLIPPED JUST LIKE DOGS WITHOUT ACTUALLY REMOVING THE CLAWS.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, WHY JOHNNY CAN’T READ. MAYBE IT’S BECAUSE HE DOESN’T HAVE A BOOK OR A TEACHER OR A DECENT CLASSROOM.

>> NO STUDENT SHOULD BE WITHOUT TEXTBOOKS IN CLASS OR WITHOUT TEXTBOOKS TO USE AT HOME. NO STUDENT SHOULD NOT HAVE A SEAT IN CLASS, SHOULD NOT HAVE A TEACHER IN THE CLASS, THE REALLY, REALLY MINIMAL CONDITIONS FOR BASIC OPPORTUNITIES TO LEARN.

PHILIP BRUCE>> HERE ARE THE RESULTS OF LAST NIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES “WHAT DO YOU THINK?” POLL: SHOULD CALIFORNIA RE-REGULATE THE STATE’S POWER INDUSTRY? YES: NINETY-ONE PERCENT, NO: NINE PERCENT. LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG TO WEIGH IN ON A NEW QUESTION TOMORROW.

JESS>> IN THE AFTERMATH OF ENRON AND THE BLACKOUTS FROM A FEW YEARS BACK, YOU’D THINK CALIFORNIA HAD LEARNED ITS LESSON ABOUT ENERGY. BUT SOME SAY THE STATE’S POWER MARKET IS STILL RIPE FOR EXPLOITATION.

VAL>> THAT’S BECAUSE THE HOLES IN THE DEREGULATED SYSTEM HAVE NOT BEEN PLUGGED. MORE POWER PLANTS HAVE BEEN BUILT SINCE THE SUMMER OF 2001, BUT THERE ARE STILL WAYS FOR POWER COMPANIES TO PLAY A VERY LUCRATIVE GAME WITH SUPPLY AND DEMAND. HERE TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON THE POWER DEBATE IS OUR RESIDENT EXPERT ON DEREGULATION, PROFESSOR PETER NAVARRO FROM UC IRVINE. NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

PETER NAVARRO>> NICE TO BE HERE.

JESS>> SO THE BIG POWER COMPANIES CAN STILL GAME THE SYSTEM?

PETER NAVARRO>> THERE IS SPECULATION THAT THAT'S STILL VERY MUCH ENTIRELY POSSIBLE IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET. THE PROBLEM IS NOT JUST AT THE STATE LEVEL, BUT AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. THE FERC, THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION, REALLY HASN'T DEALT WITH THIS WHOLE PROBLEM OF GAMING IN WHAT I WOULD REGARD IN AN HONEST AND ETHICAL WAY. SO ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THE LEGISLATURE IS NOW DOING IS TRYING TO SEND THE SIGNAL TO FERC THAT THEY NEED TO CLEAN THEIR ACT UP TOO.

VAL>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT SOME SPECIFIC QUESTIONS BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WONDERING ARE WE IN FOR A BAD SUMMER. I WANT TO ADDRESS ONE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT'S AT STAKE IN SACRAMENTO AS WE BEGIN WITH THE MOST BASIC. ARE WE FACING SHORTAGES OF POWER IN THE NEAR FUTURE?

PETER NAVARRO>> WELL, WE'RE IN FOR A BAD SUMMER, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE THIS SUMMER. IT'S GOING TO BE PROBABLY 2005, 2006 OR 2007. THE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW IS THAT, WHEN WE SWITCHED TO THIS ERA OF DEREGULATION, WE HAD COMPANIES LIKE DYNERGY, RELIANT AND, IN PARTICULAR, CALPINE, WHICH HAD BEGUN TO DO ALL THESE POWER PLANT CONSTRUCTION PROGRAMS, BUT WHEN THIS WHOLE THING COLLAPSED, A LOT OF THESE COMPANIES NOW HAVE PUT THEIR POWER PLANT CONSTRUCTION PLANS ON HOLD.

WE NEED THE EQUIVALENT OF ONE SAN ONOFRE EVERY YEAR IN ORDER TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF THIS BIG STATE. THERE IS CONCERN RIGHT NOW THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE MECHANISM IN PLACE TO DO THAT. WHAT THE LEGISLATURE IS TRYING TO DO NOW WITH THE JOE DUNN DEMOCRATIC BILL IN THE SENATE, BASICALLY, IS TO PUT THE ONUS BACK ON THE UTILITIES, WHICH IS THE WAY IT USED TO BE. BASICALLY, THE PUC, THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION, IS GOING TO DO WHAT'S CALLED RESOURCE PLANNING WHICH IS GOING TO BE TO PROJECT HOW MUCH WE NEED AND THEN, UNDER THIS BILL PROPOSED BY JOE DUNN OF SANTA ANA, A DEMOCRAT, IT WOULD BE THE UTILITY'S OBLIGATION TO PROVIDE THAT.

JESS>> SO WE WOULD GO BACK TO RE-REGULATION?

PETER NAVARRO>> IT IS EXACTLY THE OLD SYSTEM WE ONCE HAD, WITH ONE, I THINK, REALLY IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE AND IT'S A SUBTLE ONE IN SOME SENSE. BACK IN THE OLD DAYS WHEN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA EDISON WAS IN ITS HEYDAY, WHEN THEY NEEDED TO BUILD POWER PLANTS, THEY BUILT THEM. BUT NOW WE'RE IN A NEW ERA OF NEW TECHNOLOGIES. THE UTILITIES UNDER THE NEW BILL WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY NOT JUST TO BUILD, BUT IF THEY WANT INSTEAD, TO CONTRACT OUT. IN OTHER WORDS, JESS, IF YOU WERE ONE OF THESE WHOLESALE POWER PLANT GENERATORS, EDISON COULD CONTRACT WITH YOU TO BUILD THE PLANT AND THEN YOU'D SELL IT TO ME AND I'D GET THE POWER TO VAL.

VAL>> HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION THAT STATE LAWMAKERS ARE DECIDING. CAN BUSINESS CUT ITS OWN DEALS WITH POWER SUPPLIERS EVEN IF THE REST OF US GET STUCK PAYING HIGHER RATES?

PETER NAVARRO>> ALL RIGHT, HERE'S THE DEAL ON THIS. THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED DIRECT ACCESS, BIG POLICY, WHAT IS THE BIG MOTIVATION FOR THE ORIGINAL 1996 DEREGULATION BILL. IT'S WHAT BIG BUSINESS WANTED. INSTEAD OF BIG BUSINESS HAVING TO GO TO EDISON AND BUYING THE POWER THAT WAS REGULATED, THEY WANTED THE RIGHT TO GO OVER TO THIS WHOLESALE GENERATOR AND CUT A BETTER DEAL, OKAY? WE HAVE THAT SYSTEM IN PLACE NOW, BUT THE NEW PIECE OF LEGISLATION WANTS IT TO GO AWAY.

WHAT'S AT STAKE REALLY IS WHEN THE BIG CUSTOMERS ARE ABLE TO GET OFF THE GRID OF THE UTILITIES AND BUY INDEPENDENTLY THROUGH THIS DIRECT ACCESS ARRANGEMENT, BASICALLY THEY GET LOWER RATES, BUT WE THE REST OF US GET HIGHER RATES. THE POLICY ISSUE HINGES REALLY ON WHETHER POLICYMAKERS WANT TO GIVE BIG BUSINESS A BREAK BECAUSE THEY CREATE JOBS OR WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT MORE FAIRNESS FOR RESIDENTIAL CONSUMERS.

VAL>> GOT IT. NOW A QUESTION THAT RELATES TO CALIFORNIA'S HUGE BUDGET DEFICIT. ARE WE STUCK WITH THOSE EXPENSIVE CONTRACTS THAT THE GOVERNOR SIGNED DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE POWER CRISIS?

PETER NAVARRO>> THE ANSWER IS YES. THERE IS ONLY ONE POSSIBILITY OF GETTING OUT OF THOSE CONTRACTS AND IT'S A HAIL MARY. THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION IS GOING THROUGH A SET OF PROCEEDINGS BASICALLY TO EVALUATE WHETHER THERE WAS MARKET GAMING AND, IF THERE WAS MARKET GAMING, SHOULD THE CONTRACTS BE SET ASIDE. UNFORTUNATELY, THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION HAS NEVER BEEN CALIFORNIA'S FRIEND AND IT HAS SAID SO FAR IN A JUDICIARY PROCEEDING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HOLD THOSE CONTRACTS TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF REVIEW BECAUSE THEY ARE CONTRACTS AND THAT MEANS THAT FERC IS SIGNALING THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE STUCK WITH THEM. THEY ARE VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE AND THEY GO ON FOREVER.

JESS>> BUT ISN'T IT QUITE CLEAR THAT SOME OF THE COMPANIES DID GOUGE CALIFORNIA?

PETER NAVARRO>> IT'S QUITE CLEAR TO YOU AND ME AND VAL. IT'S QUITE CLEAR TO EVERYBODY IN THIS STATE.

JESS>> WEREN'T THEY ORDERED TO PAY?

PETER NAVARRO>> HERE'S THE ISSUE. IT'S BASICALLY A $9 BILLION DOLLAR DISAGREEMENT. GOVERNOR DAVIS, THE LEGISLATURE, LOCKYER, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, ALL SAY THAT THEY OWE US AT LEAST $9 BILLION DOLLARS. WE'VE TAKEN THAT CASE TO THE FERC. THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL PROCEEDINGS SO FAR AND THE BEST WE'VE COME UP WITH IS $1 BILLION OR $2 BILLION DOLLARS.

THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WATCHING THIS SHOW IS THAT THAT BUREAUCRACY DOES NOT HAVE THE BEST INTEREST OF CALIFORNIA OR CONSUMERS AT HEART. IT'S AN AGENCY WHICH I BELIEVE HAS BEEN CAPTURED BY THESE GENERATING INTERESTS AND IT'S SIMPLY DOING THEIR BIDDING. SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE CONTRACTS TAKEN CARE OF, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET OUR $9 BILLION DOLLARS AND, IN A BUDGET YEAR WHERE WE'RE SHORT $35 BILLION, WE COULD USE THAT MONEY.

VAL>> ALL RIGHT. ONE FINAL QUESTION IS THE STATE DECIDES WHAT KIND OF DEREGULATION IT WANTS. HERE IS THE FINAL QUESTION. IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT CALIFORNIA NEVER AGAIN GETS TAKEN BY THESE BIG ENERGY COMPANIES?

PETER NAVARRO>> TECHNOLOGY. THE ONLY HOPE WE HAVE. BASICALLY, IN THE SHORT MEDIUM RUN, WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO THE STATUS ANTE. WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO THIS RE-REGULATION. WE'RE GOING TO PUT THE UTILITIES IN CHARGE. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT TECHNOLOGY NOW HAS CHANGED AND IT'S CHANGED FOR BIG BUSINESS AND IT'S CHANGED FOR YOU AND ME AS CONSUMERS IN A WAY WHICH ALLOWS BIG BUSINESS, IN PARTICULAR, TO SELF-GENERATE.

IN OTHER WORDS, RATHER THAN GO INTO EDISON AND USE BIG POWER PLANTS LIKE SAN ONOFRE, IT'S POSSIBLE NOW TO USE MICROTURBINE. BIGGER BUSINESSES BANK THE MICROTURBINES TO GENERATE THEIR OWN. WE NEED A SYSTEM THAT ENCOURAGES IT TO DO THAT. WE NEED A SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS YOU AND ME TO PUT SOLAR PANELS ON OUR ROOF AND MAYBE GENERATE SURPLUS, FEED THAT BACK INTO THE GRID. IF WE MOVE TOWARDS THAT, MAYBE DOWN THE ROAD CALIFORNIA WILL AGAIN LEAD ON THIS ISSUE, BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE FOLLOWING FORTY-NINE OTHER STATES.

VAL>> SO ENERGY INDEPENDENCE AND DECENTRALIZATION.

PETER NAVARRO>> INDEED.

VAL>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PETER NAVARRO, ECONOMIST FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IRVINE.

PETER NAVARRO>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO SEE YOU BOTH.

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> MUSEUMS ARE OFTEN PLACES TO REFLECT ON THE BEST A CULTURE HAS TO OFFER, BUT PATT SAYS THE MOST IMPORTANT MUSEUMS MAY BE THE ONES THAT REFLECT THE WORST. THE TROUBLE IS, THEY'RE HARD TO FIND. THAT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS OF TRASHING A MUSEUM. ONE IS BREAKING IN AND LOOTING THE CONTENTS, WHICH IS THE WAY IT WAS DONE IN BAGHDAD. ANOTHER WAY USES PEN AND PAPER AND PRESSURE.

NOT LONG AGO, THE SENATE WAS ABOUT TO VOTE ON WHETHER TO ALLOW OIL AND GAS DRILLING IN THE ARCTIC NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE WHEN CALIFORNIA SENATOR, BARBARA BOXER, HELD UP A PICTURE FROM A BOOK CHRONICLING THE SEASONS OF THE REFUGE. SHE SAID SHE WANTED TO SHOW THAT THE PLACE WAS NOT THE FLAT, WHITE NOTHINGNESS THE INTERIOR SECRETARY HAD DESCRIBED, BUT A RICH AND VARIED HABITAT. WITHIN HOURS, THE SENATE VOTED NO TO DRILLING TO THE DISPLEASURE OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND ALASKA'S SENIOR SENATOR.

A FEW WEEKS LATER, THE SMITHSONIAN'S NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM WHICH HAD LONG BEEN PLANNING AN EXHIBIT OF THE PHOTOS ALTERED THE TEXT ACCOMPANYING THE PHOTOGRAPHS AND SAID THE EXHIBIT WOULDN'T BE INSTALLED ON THE MAIN FLOOR, BUT IN A SPACE DOWNSTAIRS BECAUSE, IT SAID, THE LIGHTING WAS BETTER. THE SMITHSONIAN DENIES ANY POLITICAL PRESSURE, BUT IT DID ACKNOWLEDGE THAT BOXER'S COMMENTS WERE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AND THAT THE LAST THING THE MUSEUM WANTS IS TO BE DRAGGED INTO A POLITICAL DEBATE. IT'S WAY TOO LATE FOR THAT.

IN 1995, THE SMITHSONIAN KNUCKLED UNDER TO POLITICS AND CHANGED AN EXHIBITION ABOUT THE ATOMIC BOMBING OF JAPAN IN 1945. VETERANS AND CONGRESSMEN COMPLAINED THAT THE EXHIBIT DWELLED TOO MUCH ON JAPANESE SUFFERING AND NUCLEAR FEARS AND NOT ENOUGH ON WHY AMERICA BELIEVED THE BOMBING WAS A MILITARY NECESSITY. EIGHTY-ONE CONGRESSMEN INSISTED THE EXHIBITION BE CHANGED OR NOT HAPPEN AT ALL. THEY GOT THEIR WAY. THERE WERE REASONS TO CHANGE THE A-BOMB EXHIBIT, BUT THEY WERE HISTORICAL AND, UNFORTUNATELY, FOR PRECEDENT AND FOR THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE NATION'S MUSEUM, POLITICS TRUMPED HISTORY.

TWO YEARS LATER, THE SMITHSONIAN MOUNTED AN EXHIBITION ON THE HISTORY OF THE NATION'S SWEATSHOPS, INCLUDING A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE EL MONTE FACTORY WHERE THAI WORKERS WERE HELD IN VIRTUAL SLAVERY SEWING CLOTHES FOR BRAND-NAMED MAKERS. THE GARMENT INDUSTRY ACCUSED THE MUSEUM OF TAKING A POLITICAL POSITION AND PROMISED TO MAKE THIS INTO ANOTHER ENOLA GAY, BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. MAY IT WOULD HAVE IF THEY'D BEEN SAVVY ENOUGH TO MAKE SURE THEY HAD A FEW MEMBERS OF CONGRESS STITCHED INTO THEIR POCKETS.

VAL>> THE BEST CHEFS CAN MAKE FOOD INTO AN ART, BUT A CENTURY AGO, CALIFORNIA ARTISTS WERE DOING THE SAME ON ORANGE CRATES. TODAY ORANGE CRATE LABELS ARE STUDIED, COLLECTED, REPRODUCED AND SOLD AS AN ART FORM. THEY CARRIED A SLICE OF CALIFORNIA CULTURE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND MANY OF THESE LABELS WERE THROWN AWAY, BUT FORTUNATELY SOME UNUSED LABELS WERE SAVED AND ARE STILL IN MINT CONDITION.

JESS>> NOW 160 CRATE LABELS ARE ON DISPLAY AT THE VENTURA COUNTY MUSEUM OF HISTORY AND ART. IT'S AN EXHIBIT CALLED "A PACKAGE DEAL: THE ART OF AGRICULTURE". JOINING US NOW IS ANNE GRAUMLICH. SHE IS CURATOR OF THE VENTURA COUNTY MUSEUM OF HISTORY AND ART. WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT IT BEING ORANGE CRATE ART, BUT IN FACT, IT COVERED ALL KINDS OF PRODUCE, DIDN'T IT?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THAT'S RIGHT. WE'RE SHOWING LABELS FROM ALL KINDS OF PRODUCE. OF COURSE, BEING VENTURA COUNTY, MOST OF THE LABELS HAD TO DO WITH CITRUS, LEMONS, ORANGES, GRAPEFRUIT.

VAL>> BUT IT ALSO CAPTURED A LOT OF CALIFORNIA CULTURE. THE FIRST ONE, FOR EXAMPLE, REFERS TO THE HOME OF RAMONA, WHICH WAS THE FAMOUS NOVEL THAT SWEPT THE COUNTRY, SO IT EVOKES MORE THAN JUST FRUIT. IN FACT, THERE'S NOT ANY FRUIT ON THIS ONE, IS THERE?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S THE HOME OF RAMONA BRAND AND ACTUALLY THAT IS THE CAMULOS ADOBE THAT STILL STANDS OUTSIDE OF PIRU IN THE SANTA CLARA VALLEY IN VENTURA COUNTY. THAT IS ONE OF OUR EARLIEST LABELS IN THE EXHIBIT, A RARE LABEL FROM 1900.

VAL>> HOW MUCH IS THAT WORTH?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> WELL, IT'S ALWAYS HARD TO DETERMINE HOW MUCH THE LABELS ARE WORTH BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY REMAIN.

VAL>> OH, SO YOU'RE FINDING THEM ALL THE TIME.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> YES.

VAL>> THE NEXT ONE EVOKES A WESTERN -- OH, NO, I'M SORRY, IT DOESN'T. THIS IS THE HELENA.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> ANOTHER ONE OF OUR EARLIEST LABELS. THIS IS A STONE LITHOGRAPH THAT WOULD BE PARTICULARLY INTERESTING TO COLLECTORS BECAUSE IT TOOK SUCH ARTISTRY TO CREATE SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

VAL>> THAT'S BEAUTIFUL. NOW THE NEXT ONE IS A WESTERN SCENE WHICH IS VERY POPULAR, I GUESS, RIGHT? EVOKING CALIFORNIA AND THE WEST.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THAT'S RIGHT. LOTS OF WESTERN SCENES, SCENES OF CALIFORNIA, AND THIS LABEL IS ALSO FROM OJAI. IT IS HARD TO FIND OJAI LABELS. THERE WEREN'T AS MANY MADE IN THE FIRST PLACE, SO WE WERE FORTUNATE TO FIND THIS ONE.

JESS>> NOW YOU CONTRIBUTED EIGHTY LABELS FROM VENTURA COUNTY, BUT THE OTHER EIGHTY CAME FROM SALINAS?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> YES. THEY CAME FROM THE NATIONAL STEINBECK CENTER IN SALINAS, CALIFORNIA. THEY CREATED THE BEGINNINGS OF THIS EXHIBIT AND THEN WE COLLABORATED WITH THEM TO INCLUDE SOME VENTURA COUNTY LABELS.

VAL>> THE OTHER IMAGE THAT APPEARED ON THEM WERE NATIVE-AMERICANS.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THAT'S RIGHT. OF COURSE, VENTURA COUNTY IS THE HOME OF THE CHUMASH INDIANS, BUT THE VENTURA COUNTY LABELS THAT HAVE INDIANS ARE NOT --

JESS>> -- THAT'S A PLAINS INDIAN.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. THAT FIT THE STEREOTYPE IDEA THAT AMERICANS HAD DURING THE 1920'S AND 1930'S OF NATIVE-AMERICANS.

VAL>> NOW WAS IT UNUSUAL TO PUT THIS MUCH EFFORT, YOU KNOW, ARTISTIC QUALITY AND COLOR, IN BASICALLY LABELS OR ADVERTISEMENTS AT THE TIME?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THE LABELS ARE REALLY THE PINNACLE OF COMMERCIAL ADVERTISEMENT DURING THE FIRST FEW DECADES OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY. WE TAKE COLOR FOR GRANTED. WE SEE COLOR ADVERTISEMENTS ALL THE TIME EVERYWHERE, BUT IN THAT PERIOD THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY ATTRACTIVE TO PEOPLE. THEY WERE MINIATURE POSTERS AND THEY DID A GREAT JOB OF SELLING ORANGES AND ALL THE OTHER PRODUCE THAT THEY WERE USED FOR.

VAL>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE NEXT ONE FROM SANTA -- SANTA AS IN SANTA PAULA.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> OF COURSE, I HAD TO BRING THIS.

JESS>> SANTA PAULA.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THAT'S RIGHT. I AM FROM SANTA PAULA. THIS LABEL IS FROM THE LIMONEIRA COMPANY IN SANTA PAULA. THESE ARE IN THE 1920'S AND THEY CHOSE THESE ATTRACTIVE IMAGES THAT PEOPLE ENJOYED. THESE ARE NOT RARE LABELS, BUT I THOUGHT CERTAINLY WE HAD TO INCLUDE THEM IN THE EXHIBIT.

JESS>> NOW THERE'S BEEN AN ABSOLUTE REVOLUTION. THERE ARE NO LONGER ANY CRATES.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THAT'S RIGHT. DURING THE 1950'S, CARDBOARD BOXES VERY QUICKLY REPLACED THE CRATES. THEY COULD BE PREPRINTED AND THEY WERE MUCH CHEAPER, LIGHTER, AND SO THE PACKING HOUSES PREFERRED THEM. THAT WAS THE END OF THE CRATES AND THE END OF THE CRATE LABELS.

VAL>> YET THEY ARE GORGEOUS. NOW HOW IS IT THAT SOME SURVIVED?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> WELL, AS PACKING HOUSES ARE APT TO DO, SOMETIMES THEY JUST PUT THEM IN STOREROOMS OR IN THE BASEMENT WHEN THEY WERE THROUGH WITH THEM AND THOUGHT PERHAPS THEY'D GO BACK TO THEM AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT. THEY GOT STORED IN THE BASEMENT. THE EARLIEST COLLECTORS ACTUALLY WENT FROM PACKING HOUSE TO PACKING HOUSE TO FIND THESE, SO THERE ARE SOME -- MOST OF THE LABELS ARE FROM THE 1940'S AND 1950'S, THE LAST ONES USED. BUT A FEW OF THE LABELS SURVIVED IN DRAWERS AT THE PRINTING HOUSES WHERE THEY WERE PRINTED OR IN THE PATENT DRAWERS. THESE ALL WERE TRADEMARKED, OF COURSE, SO THERE HAD TO BE A RECORD AND THOSE ARE THE RAREST LABELS.

JESS>> SOME OF THESE CAME FROM PRIVATE COLLECTIONS THEN?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> ABSOLUTELY. OF THE ONES FROM VENTURA COUNTY, MANY ARE FROM OUR OWN COLLECTION BECAUSE, OF COURSE, WE COLLECT THINGS HAVING TO DO WITH VENTURA COUNTY, BUT WE COLLECTED A NUMBER FROM PRIVATE LENDERS. WE'RE BORROWING THOSE AND WE'RE SO APPRECIATIVE BECAUSE THEY OFTEN HAVE THE RAREST LABELS.

VAL>> WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THE LAST THREE. THE FIRST ONE IS SESPE. OH, THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THOSE ARE ACTUALLY THE ROCKY OUTCROPPINGS OF THE DEVIL'S GATE AREA IN FILLMORE ALONG THE SESPE RIVER. YOU CAN STILL SEE THOSE TODAY.

JESS>> THE HOT SPRINGS AREA, RIGHT?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> UP NORTH OF THERE, YES, IT IS. THIS IS ONE REASON WHY I THINK THESE ARE SO POPULAR BECAUSE THEY CAPTURE A PART OF CALIFORNIA THAT WE LOVE.

VAL>> THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL. HOW MANY WERE PRINTED OVERALL? ANY IDEA?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> PROBABLY MILLIONS WERE PRINTED. IT'S FUNNY THAT WE'RE PUTTING THEM UP IN A MUSEUM AND WE'RE CELEBRATING THEM AS ART BECAUSE, OF COURSE, THEY WERE MADE TO BE USED ONCE AND THROWN AWAY.

JESS>> THIS MANSION STILL EXISTS, DOESN'T IT?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> YES, IT DOES. IN PIRU, THAT'S THE COOK MANSION.

VAL>> OH, NO KIDDING.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> IT'S STILL THERE TODAY AND PIRU LOOKS LIKE THAT, WHEREAS WE PROBABLY KNOW THAT SIMI DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THIS.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) NO, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> ALTHOUGH I DO KNOW THAT THE FARMHOUSE IS STILL THERE. AT OUR OPENING RECEPTION FOR OUR EXHIBIT, A MAN CAME UP TO ME AND HE SAID HIS GRANDFATHER BUILT THAT FARMHOUSE. THAT WAS REALLY FUN TO RUN INTO HIM.

VAL>> SO THEY CAN SEE 160 OF THESE AND, OF COURSE, THEY'RE STILL BEING REPRODUCED IN MODERN TIMES. PEOPLE BUY THEM ALL THE TIME AND FRAME THEM AND PUT THEM IN THEIR KITCHENS.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> YES. I THINK ACTUALLY MANY PEOPLE ARE ABLE TODAY TO BUY THE REAL ONES AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO THAT. YOU CAN BUY MANY OF THESE FOR TEN OR FIFTEEN DOLLARS, SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AN EXPENSIVE THING IF YOU WANT TO COLLECT --

VAL>> -- LIKE IN AN ANTIQUE STORE OR WHATEVER?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> YES. SOME, OF COURSE, THE REAL ONES, ARE WORTH MANY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

JESS>> WELL, EVEN THE CRATES THEMSELVES ARE RARE. WE USED TO USE THEM FOR END TABLES. YOU PUT A DRAPE OVER IT --

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) THAT'S RIGHT. IN COLLEGE.

JESS>> AND BOOKCASES.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> (LAUGHTER) THAT'S RIGHT. WE HAVE THEM IN OUR EXHIBIT. WE HAVE LOTS OF PACKING HOUSE EQUIPMENT AND PICTURES OF PEOPLE WHO MADE THE CRATES AND WHO WORKED IN THE PACKING HOUSES BECAUSE, OF COURSE, THESE ARE AT THE END OF A LONG PERIOD OF WORK. ALL THE PEOPLE WORKING IN THE ORCHARDS AND PUTTING THE CRATES TOGETHER.

VAL>> I WONDER IF ANY FAMOUS ARTISTS EMERGED OUT OF ORANGE CRATE ART?

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> I DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME ARTISTS WHO ARE KNOWN. MANY, OF COURSE, WERE COMMERCIAL ARTISTS WHO ARE NOT CREDITED, BUT I ALWAYS FEEL THAT BEHIND EVERY COMMERCIAL ARTIST IS A FINE ARTIST DYING TO GET OUT (LAUGHTER).

JESS>> (LAUGHTER) THAT'S VERY NICE. "A PACKAGE DEAL: THE ART OF AGRICULTURE". IT'S ON DISPLAY AT THE VENTURA COUNTY MUSEUM OF HISTORY AND ART THROUGH MAY 25. CHECK THE NUMBER AND WEBSITE ON YOUR SCREEN FOR MORE INFORMATION.

[805-653-0323]
[WWW.VCMHA.ORG]

JESS>> THANKS FOR JOINING US.

ANNE GRAUMLICH>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. WONDERFUL HAVING YOU HERE.

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JESS>> THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT. THANKS FOR JOINING US.

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