5/9/03

LC030509

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> IT YOU WONDER WHY SO MANY KIDS CAN BARELY READ AND WRITE, JUST LOOK AT WHERE THEY GO TO SCHOOL.

CATHERINE LHAMON>> WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS UP AND DOWN THE STATE. THERE ARE STUDENTS WITHOUT TEACHERS, STUDENTS WITHOUT BOOKS, STUDENTS WITHOUT SEATS IN SCHOOLS THAT YOU JUST CANNOT CALL A SCHOOL.

VAL>> AND THEN ONE WOMAN'S JOURNEY DEEP INTO HER NATIVE IRAN. WE'LL VISIT PLACES WHERE THE MYSTICAL TRADITIONS OF ISLAM ARE OFF-LIMITS TO WESTERNERS. A NEW DOCUMENTARY PROVIDES A RARE GLIMPSE.

JESS>> PLUS, A CALIFORNIA DEMOCRAT TAKES AIM AT THE TOP GUN IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

VAL>> IT'S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> LOOKING FOR A LITTLE EQUITY IN CALIFORNIA'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

JESS>> BUT IT CAN BE PRETTY HARD TO FIND. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TEXTBOOKS AND TEACHERS AND CLASSROOMS AND THE QUESTION IS DOES EVERY STUDENT DESERVE THE SAME QUALITY? SO FAR, THE STATE HAS SPENT ABOUT $18 MILLION DOLLARS DEFENDING ITSELF AGAINST A LAWSUIT FILED ON BEHALF OF THE HAVE-NOTS IN PUBLIC EDUCATION. TONIGHT TONI GUINYARD SHOWS US WHAT THE FIGHT IS ALL ABOUT.

TONI GUINYARD>> PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENTS IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA ARE REPORTING TO CLASS EVERY DAY, MOST OF THEM UNAWARE THEY ARE AT THE CENTER OF A LEGAL BATTLE. THE ACLU FILED A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA ALLEGING STUDENTS ENROLLED IN LESS AFFLUENT NEIGHBORHOOD SCHOOLS ARE GETTING A LESS THAN ACCEPTABLE EDUCATION.

CATHERINE LHAMON>> WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS UP AND DOWN THE STATE THERE ARE STUDENTS WITHOUT TEACHERS, STUDENTS WITHOUT BOOKS, STUDENTS WITHOUT SEATS IN SCHOOLS THAT YOU JUST CANNOT CALL A SCHOOL. WELL, LET ME BE CLEAR. THE PROBLEM IS NOT PERVASIVE TO EVERY SINGLE DISTRICT IN THE STATE. IT'S PERVASIVE THROUGH DISTRICTS AND SCHOOLS THAT SERVE PRIMARILY LOW-INCOME STUDENTS AND STUDENTS OF COLOR.

TONI GUINYARD>> SOME PARENTS DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE.

JULIE ST. JOHNS>> I THINK YOU GET A BETTER EDUCATION WITH MORE MINORITIES BECAUSE THERE'S MORE FUNDING FOR THE SCHOOLS.

TONI GUINYARD>> BUT THE ACLU IS NOT BACKING DOWN. IT GOT A LOT OF MEDIA ATTENTION WHEN THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED.

>> THESE ARE SCHOOLS THAT SHOCK THE CONSCIENCE.

TONI GUINYARD>> BUT THAT WAS NEARLY THREE YEARS AGO. ATTORNEY CATHERINE LHAMON SAYS ONLY NOW HAS THE STATE FILED ITS EXPERT REPORTS WITH THE COURT. ONLY NOW CAN THE CASE MOVE FORWARD.

CATHERINE LHAMON>> THE STATE'S EXPERTS HAVE LITERALLY SAID -- ONE OF THEM SAID THAT SHE'S VISITED HUNDREDS OF SCHOOLS IN CALIFORNIA AND SHE'S NEVER SEEN A SCHOOL IN WHICH STUDENTS CAN'T LEARN. THAT'S UNFATHOMABLE TO ME.

TONI GUINYARD>> BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU'VE SEEN?

CATHERINE LHAMON>> BECAUSE OF WHAT I'VE SEEN, BECAUSE OF WHAT THESE STUDENTS HAVE SAID, BECAUSE OF WHAT'S BEEN DOCUMENTED IN THIS CASE.

EVELYN PIMIENTA>> THEY NEED TO WORK ON TEXTBOOKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BECAUSE THEY REALLY NEED THAT.

TONI GUINYARD>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

EVELYN PIMIENTA>> SOME OF THEM, I'VE SEEN THEM, AND THEY'RE JUST REALLY BAD, TORN UP, YOU KNOW?

TONI GUINYARD>> PHOTOS OF FILTHY CONDITIONS ON PUBLIC CONDITIONS ON PUBLIC SCHOOL CAMPUSES WERE MADE PUBLIC TO ILLUSTRATE PART OF THE PROBLEM, BUT IT'S JUST ONE PART OF THE LAWSUIT. SCHOOL OVERCROWDING IS ANOTHER. MALDEF IS WORKING WITH THE ACLU TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE. ITS FOCUS IS ON THE CONCEPT SIX YEAR-ROUND SCHOOL CALENDAR.

HECTOR VILLAGRA>> WE ARE OF THE OPINION THAT CONCEPT SIX IS SO BAD THAT IT SHOULD BE ABANDONED NOW.

TONI GUINYARD>> HECTOR VILLAGRA IS REGIONAL COUNSEL FOR MALDEF. HE DESCRIBES THE CONCEPT SIX CALENDAR AS A SEGREGATED EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.

HECTOR VILLAGRA>> YOU'VE GOT TWO MONTHS OF SCHOOL, TWO MONTHS OF VACATION, FOUR MONTHS OF SCHOOL, TWO MONTHS OF VACATION, TWO MONTHS BACK ON SCHOOL. THAT'S A LOT OF STARTING AND STOPPING THAT OTHER STUDENTS DON'T EXPERIENCE.

>> WHO'S GOING TO ADD TO WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE GEOGRAPHY OF CHINA? WHO CAN ADD?

TONI GUINYARD>> STUDENTS AT BIRD MIDDLE SCHOOL IN SUN VALLEY HAVE BEEN ON THE CONCEPT SIX SCHOOL CALENDAR FOR THE PAST SEVEN YEARS. EIGHTY-EIGHT PERCENT OF THE STUDENTS ARE LATINO, SIX HUNDRED STUDENTS ARE ENGLISH-LANGUAGE LEARNERS. THE PRINCIPAL SUPPORTS A CHANGE.

JERRY HOROWITZ>> I THINK YEAR-ROUND HAS TO BE ELIMINATED AND I THINK THE DISTRICT IS MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION BY BUILDING SCHOOLS AND, UNTIL THEY HAVE ENOUGH SCHOOLS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ACCOMMODATE THE KIDS WE HAVE ASSIGNED TO US. CONCEPT SIX IS ONE OF THE VARIOUS FORMS OF YEAR-ROUND EDUCATION. HOW EFFECTIVE IS IT? IT DEPENDS UPON THE DELIVERY OF SERVICE.

HECTOR VILLAGRA>> ENGLISH-LANGUAGE LEARNERS ARE ABOUT TWO TO ONE OVER-REPRESENTED IN CONCEPT SIX SCHOOLS AS OPPOSED TO THEIR STATEWIDE ENROLLMENT. LOW-INCOME STUDENTS, STUDENTS ON THE FREE AND REDUCED LUNCH PROGRAM, AGAIN, IT'S ALMOST TWO TO ONE. SO BASICALLY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A SYSTEM THAT PROVIDES THE FEWEST DAYS OF ANY CALENDAR IN THE STATE TO THE KIDS WHO WOULD MOST BENEFIT FROM A LONGER SCHOOL YEAR.

JERRY HOROWITZ>> OUR YOUNGSTERS, IRREGARDLESS OF THE CALENDAR, ARE RECEIVING THE BEST EDUCATION POSSIBLE. CAN WE MAKE IT BETTER? OF COURSE, WE CAN MAKE IT BETTER. WE CAN MAKE IT BETTER BY PROVIDING THEM WITH 180 CONTINUOUS DAYS.

TONI GUINYARD>> BUT IT WILL TAKE THE CONSTRUCTION OF ADDITIONAL SCHOOLS TO HOUSE THE INCREASED NUMBER OF STUDENTS ENROLLED AND, ACCORDING TO ATTORNEY VILLAGRA, CONSTRUCTION ISN'T HAPPENING QUICKLY ENOUGH.

HECTOR VILLAGRA>> IN THE YEAR 2003 IN THIS GREAT COUNTRY OF OURS, THERE ARE DISTRICTS THAT JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SCHOOLS TO HOUSE AND TO EDUCATE PROPERLY ALL OF THEIR STUDENTS. SO WE THOUGHT THAT, BEFORE YOU COULD TALK ABOUT HOW MATH WAS BEING TAUGHT OR HOW READING WAS BEING TAUGHT, YOU NEEDED TO ENSURE THAT YOU HAD ENOUGH SCHOOLS FOR ALL OF THESE CHILDREN.

TONI GUINYARD>> ALL THESE CHILDREN, STUDENTS WHO GO TO CLASS EVERY DAY, MOST OBLIVIOUS TO THE LEGAL BATTLE BEING WAGED ON THEIR BEHALF.

CATHERINE LHAMON>> THE LEGAL OBLIGATIONS ARE VERY CLEAR. THE MORAL OBLIGATION IS VERY CLEAR. THE DENIGRATION OF STUDENTS' LIVES IS VERY CLEAR. WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR? WE SHOULD NOT BE IN COURT. WE SHOULD NOT BE DUKING THIS OUT. WE SHOULD BE SITTING DOWN, ROLLING UP OUR SLEEVES AND SAYING THESE KIDS HAVE NEEDS. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THEM?

JESS>> THIS CASE HAS TURNED INTO A BATTLE OF THE EXPERTS. THOSE WHO WORK FOR THE PLAINTIFFS CLAIM THAT POOR CONDITIONS AT SCHOOL CAN SCAR A CHILD FOR LIFE, BUT THE EXPERTS HIRED BY THE STATE SAY ALL THE PROBLEMS YOU JUST HEARD ABOUT REALLY DON'T HAVE A LASTING IMPACT. NEXT YEAR, A CALIFORNIA JUDGE WILL HAVE THE FINAL SAY.

VAL>> MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, A MOUNTAIN OF ELECTRONIC CASTOFFS AND NO PLACE TO DUMP THEM. BUT NOW STATE LAWMAKERS ARE JUMPING ON THE BANDWAGON TO GET RID OF THIS ELECTRONIC WASTE.

>> I DREAM ABOUT DEAD COMPUTERS ALL THE TIME, AND THE MORE I DREAM ABOUT IT, THE MORE IT FEELS LIKE I'M JUST GETTING OVERWHELMED WITH THESE THINGS, SO THE PROBLEM IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY. IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET BIGGER FROM HERE ON OUT.

JESS>> FEW WOULD DENY PRESIDENT BUSH LOOKED RIGHT AT HOME WHEN HE CLIMBED OUT OF THAT NAVY JET, BUT MANY DEMOCRATS ARE STILL FUMING ABOUT HIS VISIT LAST WEEK TO THE CARRIER ABRAHAM LINCOLN. THEY SAY IT WAS MORE OF A CAMPAIGN GIMMICK THAN A LEGITIMATE PRESIDENTIAL TRIP. AND A KEY DEMOCRAT FROM LOS ANGELES, CONGRESSMAN HENRY WAXMAN, IS CALLING FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO HOW MUCH THE EVENT COST TAXPAYERS.

VAL>> WELL, THAT PROMPTED A TERSE RESPONSE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE. THAT RESPONSE? "CONGRESSMAN WAXMAN NEVER MET A REPUBLICAN HE DIDN'T WANT TO INVESTIGATE." HERE TO ADD SOME FUEL TO THE FIRE ARE TWO POLITICAL PROS, DEMOCRAT JOE CERRELL, AND REPUBLICAN ALLAN HOFFENBLUM. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

JOE CERRELL>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> GENTLEMEN, WHAT DO YOU SAY? WILL THAT SHOT OF HIM STRIDING ACROSS THE DECK OF THE ABRAHAM LINCOLN WITH THE HELMET, WILL THAT APPEAR IN A CAMPAIGN AD?

JOE CERRELL>> WELL, I HATE TO DISAPPOINT AND SURPRISE MR. HOFFENBLUM, BUT IT WOULD BE HYPOCRITICAL FOR ME TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I DID THE SAME THING FORTY YEARS AGO NEXT MONTH WITH JOHN KENNEDY. SURE, WE'RE UNHAPPY ABOUT IT. IT WAS GANGBUSTERS. IT WAS NOT ONLY A HOMER, JESS, IT WAS A GRAND SLAM.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> OH, THAT'S CORRECT. AND A REMINDER, JOHN KENNEDY, YOU COULDN'T GO TWO WEEKS WITHOUT SOME COMMENT ABOUT PT 109 AND HIS EXPLOITS (LAUGHTER). BY THE WAY, KENNEDY, LIKED BY THE UNITED STATES, WAS A LEGITIMATE WORLD WAR TWO HERO. BUT LISTEN, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TOOK AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF RISK LAUNCHING AMERICAN FORCES TO IRAQ.

EVERYBODY WAS SAYING THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE A DISASTER, THAT IT WOULD BE ANOTHER VIETNAM, AND HE TOOK ALL OF THESE PRESSURES MAKING THE COMMITMENT, WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THEM OR NOT, AND I DO, OF COURSE. BUT TO GIVE HIM HIS BIT TO BE ABLE TO FLY OVER TO THE ABRAHAM LINCOLN AND THANK THE TROOPS AND TO CRITICIZE THAT, I JUST THINK IT'S CYNICISM. AND I DO BELIEVE, BY THE WAY, THERE ARE SOME POLITICS THAT DEMOCRATS ARE HOPING THAT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING TODAY WILL PREVENT THE PRESIDENT'S CAMPAIGN FROM USING THIS FOOTAGE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO WORK.

JOE CERRELL>> THE ONLY THING YOU WILL SEE --

VAL>> -- WE SHOULD EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN FOLLOWING THIS CLOSELY. THE FACT THAT HE FLEW IN ON THE JET AND HE CAME DOWN AND WALKED AWAY, YOU KNOW, IN THIS PERFECT MOVIE-LIKE SETTING WITH THE HELMET --

JOE CERRELL>> -- THE HELMET UNDER THE ARM.

VAL>> -- WHEN HE COULD HAVE SIMPLY TAKEN A HELICOPTER AND SAVED A LOT OF MONEY.

JOE CERRELL>> WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE DID WITH JOHN KENNEDY AND WE DID HAVE JETS, BY THE WAY, AT THAT PARTICULAR PERIOD OF TIME. THE ONLY PROBLEM THAT I DO HAVE, THOUGH, SINCE I DIDN'T WANT TO BE HYPOCRITICAL, IS THE FACT THAT HILLARY AND BILL CLINTON MOST RECENTLY -- AND ALL THE PRESIDENTS IN BOTH PARTIES, BY THE WAY, GOING BACKWARDS IN TIME -- WERE ALWAYS CRITICIZED. I MEAN, HILLARY I REMEMBER WELL BECAUSE MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAW GOES WITH HILLARY TO INDIA. OH, I MEAN, WHAT IS SHE DOING THERE? THIS IS REALLY POLITICAL. MOTHER THERESA'S FUNERAL. I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT TO BE CONSISTENT AND THAT'S WHAT WE OBJECT TO.

JESS>> JOE, YOU WEREN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR MICHAEL DUKAKIS RIDING IN THE TANK AND THE HELMET --

JOE CERRELL>> -- NOT, BUT I'D SAY THIS, THOUGH. I DID LIKE THE PRESIDENT THE OTHER DAY AND I'M SURE YOU'LL SEE THOSE PICTURES WELL INTO THE CAMPAIGNS AND THE PROFESSIONALLY-MADE SIGNS WELCOMING HIM THERE. THE ONLY THING IS, AND I DON'T WANT TO MAKE TOO LIGHT OF IT, IF THAT JET HAD MISSED THE HOOK AND MAYBE GONE IN THERE AND THEY'VE GOT THOSE FOUR CHOPPERS WITH THE DIVERS, I'LL TELL YOU SOMETHING. I THINK MR. KARL ROVE, THE PRESIDENT'S POLITICAL ADVISER, THEY MUST HAVE THOUGHT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> I DO BELIEVE WE'VE BEEN PROVEN THAT GEORGE W. BUSH IS ABLE TO TAKE RISKS AND, SO FAR, THEY'VE PAID OFF.

VAL>> WELL, I HAVE A FEELING WE'RE GOING TO SEE THAT STUFF IN THE CAMPAIGN.

JOE CERRELL>> YES, YOU WILL.

VAL>> AND, OF COURSE, THAT WAS ON THE TAXPAYERS' DIME.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> ANY TRIP BY THE PRESIDENT IS ON THE TAXPAYERS' DIME.

JOE CERRELL>> A LOT OF DIMES.

VAL>> A LOT OF DIMES (LAUGHTER). WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON NOW TO A DIFFERENT POLITICAL TOPIC, THE LATEST TROUBLES FOR OUR GOVERNOR, GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS.

JESS>> AND THE DIME THAT'S COMING IN THERE IS COMING FROM A WEALTHY INDUSTRIALIST WHO'S PUT A MILLION DOLLARS INTO A CAMPAIGN.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM HIM IN JUST A SECOND BECAUSE THE RECALL EFFORT COULD REMOVE THE GOVERNOR FROM THE OFFICE AND IT HAS A NEW BURST OF ENERGY. AS YOU MENTIONED, IT'S COMING FROM CALIFORNIA REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN, DARRELL ISSA. HE MADE HIS FORTUNE WITH HIS VIPER CAR ALARMS. NOW ISSA VOWS TO SPEND, AS JESS MENTIONED, A LOT OF DIMES ON THE RECALL EFFORT AIMED AT DUMPING GRAY DAVIS. SO DOES ISSA SEE THE RECALL AS HIS TICKET TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE? THAT'S THE QUESTION.

JESS>> WHAT DO YOU THINK?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> OH, THAT'S THE TEN MILLION DOLLAR -- THE TEN MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION IS, IF THE RECALL ACTUALLY GETS ON THE BALLOT AND SUCCEEDS, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? FIRST OF ALL, I'VE TALKED TO ISSA'S POLITICAL PEOPLE AND RIGHT NOW HE'S MADE NO COMMITMENT TO PUT ANY ONE MILLION DOLLARS. I UNDERSTAND RIGHT NOW HE'S MADE A COMMITMENT TO PUT IN $250,000. THERE ARE TWO --

JOE CERRELL>> -- WITH ENTHUSIASM.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> WELL, ALSO YOU'VE GOT TO REMEMBER, IN FOR AN INCH. PROBABLY IN FOR A MILE, SO WE DON'T KNOW ULTIMATELY WHAT HE WOULD SPEND. BUT HE'S PUTTING SOME MONEY TO AN EFFORT BY TED COSTA, TAXPAYER GROUPS, AND ONE BY A CONSULTANT THAT DID BILL SIMON'S CAMPAIGN. BUT WHAT SURPRISED EVERYBODY, HE'S SETTING UP HIS OWN INDEPENDENT COMMITTEE WITH HIS OWN POLITICAL CONSULTANT AS A THIRD, THOUGH THEY'RE ALL USED IN THE SAME PETITIONS.

JESS>> WELL, HE SPENT TEN MILLION DOLLARS ONCE BEFORE ON A CAMPAIGN FOR HIMSELF THAT FAILED.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> YEAH, FOR THE UNITED STATES SENATE. BUT THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE, MOST REPUBLICAN LEADERS AND MOST OF THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS ARE NOT GUNG-HO ON THIS RECALL, AGAIN, BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WOULD LEAD TO. FIRST OF ALL, JUST BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR IS RECALLED DOES NOT MEAN HE WOULD BE REPLACED BY A REPUBLICAN BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE OTHER DEMOCRATS ON THE BALLOT.

MY DEMOCRATIC FRIENDS IN JOKE WILL COMMENT ON THIS, BUT IF IT DOES QUALIFY, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED TO SEE SOMEONE LIKE SENATOR DIANNE FEINSTEIN AS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE IN ALTERNATIVE TO GRAY DAVIS. THERE IS NO REPUBLICAN IN CALIFORNIA RIGHT NOW THAT I KNOW OF THAT MATCHES HER STAR QUALITY AND HAS HER NAME ID OTHER THAN MAYBE ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER.

JESS>> JOE'S SHAKING HIS HEAD.

JOE CERRELL>> WHAT YOU'RE SAYING -- AND I THINK WE'RE BOTH BEING A LITTLE ECUMENICAL -- YOU'RE SAYING HOW THE REPUBLICANS DON'T REALLY STAND BEHIND THIS. A $25 MILLION DOLLAR COST. I MEAN, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FROM THE FINANCIALLY CONSERVATIVE, A FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE, OPERATION. HEY, FOLKS, HELLO. WE JUST HAD AN ELECTION. IF THIS WAS A LEGISLATOR, IT TAKES SIX MONTHS BEFORE YOU COULD EVEN START IT.

WHAT YOU'VE GOT HERE ARE DISGRUNTLED PEOPLE WHO LOST AN ELECTION AND, BY THE WAY, LOST EVERY STATEWIDE ELECTION IN CALIFORNIA IN BOTH HOUSES. SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A FULL EMPLOYMENT ACT WITH SOME OF THESE POLITICAL CONSULTANTS BEHIND THIS OPERATION.

JESS>> WELL, THEY'VE GOT TO BE EMBOLDENED BY THE NEGATIVE FIGURES ON GRAY DAVIS.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> I'LL GIVE JOE -- HE'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. THE DEMOCRATS TOTALLY CONTROL THE GOVERNMENT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. WE ALL KNOW HOW WELL CALIFORNIA IS DOING TODAY UNDER THAT DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT (LAUGHTER). BUT THE POINT IS, WHETHER IT QUALIFIES OR NOT IS PURELY MECHANICAL. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS IN THE PRESS WITH ANY POLLS, WHAT THEY NEED IS ONE MILLION SIGNATURES OUT OF FIFTEEN MILLION REGISTERED VOTERS. IF SOMEBODY PUTS UP BETWEEN $1 MILLION AND $1.2 MILLION DOLLARS, GUESS WHAT? IT WILL QUALIFY.

JOE CERRELL>> MR. ISSA TAKING THESE FUNDS THAT HE WAS GOING TO RUN FOR UNITED STATES SENATE AND HE CHICKENED OUT OF THAT OPERATION. NOW WHAT HE'LL DO IS PUT IT INTO THE RECALL AND MAYBE HE'LL TRY TO BE THE CANDIDATE. IT WILL TAKE OVER A MILLION SIGNATURES AND MAYBE --

JESS>> -- AT A COST OF, WHAT, ABOUT TWO DOLLARS A SIGNATURE?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> NO, NO, NO.

JESS>> HOW MUCH?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> ISSA IS WORTH $125 MILLION DOLLARS, I UNDERSTAND, AS PERSONAL WEALTH, BUT THE POINT IS -- MOST PEOPLE THINK IT TAKES ABOUT A DOLLAR A SIGNATURE PROBABLY, SO IT WOULD PROBABLY TAKE ABOUT $1 MILLION OR $1.2 MILLION. IT'S A CHECK HE COULD WRITE EASILY.

JOE CERRELL>> YOU SAY CHECK HE COULD WRITE? --

VAL>> -- BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND. THERE ARE ALREADY TWO OTHER RECALL CAMPAIGNS, SO WHY IS HE STARTING A THIRD?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> IT'S JUST A MATTER OF HOW YOU CIRCULATE THE PETITION.

JOE CERRELL>> WON'T HE GET BEHIND ONE OF THE EXISTING CAMPAIGNS AS OPPOSED TO A THIRD CAMPAIGN?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT HOWARD KALOOGIAN DOING ONE OF THEM WHO IS A NORTH SAN DIEGO FORMER ASSEMBLYMAN WHO DOESN'T GET ALONG WITH ISSA, SO I'M NOT SURPRISED HE DOESN'T WANT TO GIVE IT TO THE KALOOGIAN EFFORT. THEN YOU'VE SAL RUSSO, WHO RAN BILL SIMON'S CAMPAIGN, SO I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY HE DOESN'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED WITH THE SIMON CAMPAIGN, SO THAT'S WHY HE PROBABLY PUT TOGETHER HIS OWN CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE.

JOE CERRELL>> BUT YOU COULD GET SIMON BACK ON THE BALLOT. YOU COULD GET RICHARD RIORDAN WHO'S TRYING TO START A NEWSPAPER BACK ON THE BALLOT.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> AND GET TOM MCCLINTOCK.

VAL>> REAL QUICKLY, ABOUT TEN SECONDS.

JESS>> AND TOM HAYDEN.

VAL>> ARE WE GOING TO SEE HIM RECALLED?

JOE CERRELL>> I THINK THE WHOLE THING IS A GIANT WASTE OF MONEY AND A GIANT WASTE OF TIME. BUT, AGAIN, TO BE HONEST ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, IT COULD QUALIFY, IT COULD QUALIFY.

VAL>> VERY GOOD. I'LL HAVE TO STOP YOU THERE, GENTLEMEN. JOE CERRELL AND REPUBLICAN ALLAN HOFFENBLUM, SO NICE TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW.

JOE CERRELL>> ALWAYS APPRECIATE BEING WITH YOU.

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> TONIGHT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A SIDE OF ISLAM THAT WESTERNERS HAVE NO ACCESS TO. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MYSTIC TRADITION OF ISLAM MADE FAMOUS BY THE WHIRLING DERVISHES IN WHITE CAPES AND TALL HATS.

VAL>> BUT IN THE SMALL VILLAGES OF IRAN, THERE ARE NO CAPES OR HATS, BUT THERE IS THE SAME DEEP FAITH THAT GIVES RISE TO INTENSE CHANTING AND PRAYER. IN A MOMENT, WE'LL MEET THE WOMAN WHO GAINED RARE ACCESS TO THESE MUSLIM RITUALS, BUT FIRST A BRIEF LOOK AT A DOCUMENTARY OF "MYSTIC IRAN: THE UNSEEN WORLD".

NARRATOR>> MEN FROM AREAS THROUGHOUT KURDISTAN GATHER TO PERFORM THEIR SACRED RITUAL KNOWN AS SEMA. SEMA MEANS TO HEAR OR TO LISTEN AND IT IS DURING THE RITUAL OF SEMA THAT THE DERVISH OPENS HIMSELF TO HEARING GOD. IT IS TRADITIONALLY TABOO FOR WOMEN TO ENTER THE MEN'S CIRCLE, BUT OUT OF RESPECT FOR OUR LONG PILGRIMAGE, SHEIK NAZAR ALLOWED ME TO WATCH FROM A WINDOW.

[FILM CLIP]

NARRATOR>> ISLAM FORBIDS MUSIC AND DANCE IN SECULAR LIFE, BUT INSIDE THE HANAVA, THE RITUAL OF SEMA BEGINS WITH THE RHYTHM OF THE DAF. AN ANCIENT INSTRUMENT LIKE THE SHAMAN'S DRUM, THE DAF IS SACRED TO THESE MYSTIC MEN.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS THE FILMMAKER, ARYANA FARSHAD, WHO SPENT NINE MONTHS TRAVELING AND FILMING IN IRAN. WELCOME.

ARYANA FARSHAD>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

JESS>> HOW DID YOU GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO FILM THESE PREVIOUSLY SECRET GATHERINGS?

ARYANA FARSHAD>> OH, IT'S A LONG STORY. YOU KNOW, I PRACTICED SUFISM BEFORE AND, WHEN I WENT TO IRAN, I TRAVELED TO KURDISTAN. I WAS MEETING WITH THE MEN DERVISHES TO FILM. YOU KNOW, IT'S A NO-NO. YOU KNOW, IT'S THE LAW AND --

VAL>> -- CAMERAS ARE UNUSUAL, MUCH LESS CAMERAS RUN BY A FEMALE DIRECTOR.

ARYANA FARSHAD>> AND THEN I MET THE WOMEN DERVISHES. I WENT IN AND I SMILED WITH THEM AND, YOU KNOW --

VAL>> -- AND YOU PARTICIPATED IN THE RITUAL?

ARYANA FARSHAD>> I PARTICIPATED IN THE RITUAL AND THEY HUGGED ME AND INITIATED ME AND THEY ALLOWED ME TO FILM, SO THAT WAS A SECRET TOO, BEING ABLE TO FILM. THEN SHE TOOK US TO MEN DERVISHES WHICH IS AT THE BORDER OF IRAN AND IRAQ. IT'S TOTALLY UP THE MOUNTAIN AND --

VAL>> -- AND ONE OF THE MOST STUNNING THINGS IS HOW LONG THEIR HAIR IS, WHICH YOU SAW, THE WAY THEY THROW IT AND TOSS IT, BUT NORMALLY IT'S PUT UP UNDER THE TURBANS, IS THAT RIGHT?

ARYANA FARSHAD>> YEAH. WHEN THEY GO OUT, IT'S ALL WRAPPED UP. YOU DON'T SEE ANYTHING WHEN THEY -- IT'S A SACRED PLACE WHEN THEY COME IN. BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE WOMEN'S HAIR. WE COULDN'T SHOW THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO OPEN -- YOU KNOW, IN ISLAM, YOU CAN'T SHOW THE HAIR AND THE CAMERA WAS THERE. WHEN THE WOMEN DERVISHES OPEN THEIR HAIR, IT TOUCHES THE FLOOR AND THEY DO THE SAME THING.

JESS>> IT'S VISUALLY EXTRAORDINARY. DOES YOUR DOCUMENTARY HAVE A MESSAGE?

ARYANA FARSHAD>> I'M TRYING TO SEND -- THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE SEGMENT, I'M TRYING TO SEND ONE SPIRITUAL MESSAGE AT A TIME. YOU KNOW, I'M SAYING THAT THE HUMAN BEING WAS CREATED OF THE IMAGE OF GOD AND I BELIEVE THAT. WITH THE DERVISHES, I GO FURTHER AND I TALK TO PURIFICATION OF THE SOUL AND I GO FURTHER AND I SAY, IF YOU REALLY PURIFY YOUR SOUL, YOU CAN HEAR THE VOICE OF THE UNIVERSE.

VAL>> THAT'S BEAUTIFUL. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK NOW AT THE WOMEN THAT YOU MENTIONED. THIS IS A WOMAN YOU FOUND IN A SMALL VILLAGE WHO WAS JUST MAKING BREAD AND SHE BEGAN TO CHANT ALMOST SPONTANEOUSLY. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THIS SCENE.

NARRATOR>> WHEN A WOMAN BEGINS TO SING, THIS EVERYDAY SCENE SUDDENLY TRANSFORMS INTO A SURREAL MOMENT.

[FILM CLIP]

NARRATOR>> AS HER COMPANIONS KEEP WORKING, SHE BEGINS TO CHANT, LAMENT AND CRY. SHE IS IN ANOTHER WORLD. IN A PERSONAL STATE OF TRANCE, SHE BEGINS TO RUB HER HAND ON A BURNING PIECE OF WOOD.

[FILM CLIP]

NARRATOR>> IT IS BELIEVE THAT, IN A STATE OF TRANCE, DERVISHES CAN TRANSCEND THE PHYSICAL SENSES, ACHIEVING CONTROL OF MIND OVER THE BODY.

VAL>> THAT'S AMAZING HOW THE OTHER WOMEN JUST CONTINUED TO MAKE THE BREAD AND SHE'S IN THIS STATE.

ARYANA FARSHAD>> THEY'RE USED TO IT, THEY'RE USED TO IT. ACTUALLY, I DID THE SEMA WITH THEM THE NIGHT BEFORE UNTIL FIVE A.M. AND THEY CAN GO INTO THAT STATE VERY EASILY.

JESS>> NOW THIS IS A TRANCE-LIKE STATE, BUT A RELIGIOUS ECSTASY?

ARYANA FARSHAD>> YES, BUT IT IS A NATURAL ECSTASY THEY GO IN. YEAH, ACTUALLY, IT WAS AT 6:30 A.M. AND SHE WAS MAKING BREAD. THEY WERE MAKING BREAD FOR THE BREAKFAST FOR THREE HUNDRED PEOPLE, SO THE OTHERS KEPT --

VAL>> -- AND LATER ON, ACTUALLY IN THE SAME SCENE WHICH WE DIDN'T SHOW, SHE ACTUALLY LIFTS UP A PIECE OF WOOD THAT'S ON FIRE AND PUTS THE WOOD INTO HER MOUTH AND KIND OF EXTINGUISHING IT. OH, MY GOD, SHE'S GOING TO GET BURNED, BUT SHE DOESN'T HURT HERSELF?

ARYANA FARSHAD>> NO, SHE DIDN'T HURT HERSELF.

JESS>> IT'S LIKE THE FIREWALKERS, HUH?

ARYANA FARSHAD>> EXACTLY. IT'S LIKE THE FIREWALKER. THE WHOLE THING IS ABOUT BEING, YOU KNOW, GOING OUT OF YOUR BODY SENSES AND GOING ABOVE IT. YOU KNOW, LEAVING THE SENSES, THE PHYSICAL, BEHIND AND HAVE THE SPIRIT.

VAL>> NOW YOU ALSO TOUCH UPON MODERN IRAN. I THINK IT'S REALLY INSIGHTFUL WHEN YOU VISIT TEHRAN AND SEE HOW SO MANY MYTHS ARE SORT OF DEMYSTIFIED WHEN YOU GO THERE. LET'S TAKE A LOOK NOW AT MODERN TEHRAN.

NARRATOR>> IN RESPONSE TO ONE OF THE MORE CONTROVERSIAL LAWS, A DRESS CODE REQUIRING WOMEN BE COVERED HEAD TO TOE IN PUBLIC, I SAW THE YOUNGER GENERATION ADOPTING A NEW EAST-WEST FASHION STATEMENT.

[FILM CLIP]

NARRATOR>> DESPITE NUMEROUS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE RESTRICTIONS, MANY IRANIANS HAVE REACHED NEW HEIGHTS OF ACHIEVEMENT AND WOMEN AS WELL AS MEN HAVE FOUND A PATH TO CREATIVE EXPRESSION AS FILMMAKERS, POETS AND WRITERS. FROM THE HIDDEN CAFES AND GALLERIES WHERE ARTISTS AND INTELLECTUALS GATHER TO OPEN AIR PARKS FILLED WITH THE VIBRANT ENERGY OF THE YOUNGER GENERATION. I SAW PEOPLE REDEFINING THEIR ROLE IN THE MODERN WORLD.

JESS>> FOR YOU, THIS WAS ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY TO VISIT FAMILY?

ARYANA FARSHAD>> YES. I WENT BACK AFTER A LONG TIME AND I STAYED WITH MY SISTERS AND I SAW MY FAMILY. MORE THAN THAT, I SAW MY COUNTRY THAT I KNEW WAS WRITTEN ABOUT.

VAL>> WELL, YOU CAME BACK WITH A BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL DOCUMENTARY THAT I HOPE WILL GIVE WESTERNERS A DIFFERENT INSIGHT INTO THE MIDDLE EAST.

ARYANA FARSHAD>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

JESS>> "MYSTIC IRAN: THE UNSEEN WORLD" WILL BE SCREENING TOMORROW AFTERNOON. IT'S SCREENING AT THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY MUSEUM OF ART. YOU CAN CHECK THE NUMBER AND WEBSITE ON YOUR SCREEN FOR MORE DETAILS.

[323-857-6512]
[WWW.LACMA.ORG]

VAL>> ARYANA FARSHAD, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

ARYANA FARSHAD>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

VAL>> A REMINDER THAT YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OF OLD LIFE AND TIMES PROGRAMS OR AUDIO OF RECENT LIFE AND TIMES PROGRAMS JUST BY GOING TO OUR WEBSITE. GO TO KCET.ORG AND CLICK ON LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> AND THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS FOR JOINING US. GOOD NIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.