7/07/03

LC030707

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS FIGHT FOR THEIR MONEY, BUT WILL INSURANCE COMPANIES MAKE GOOD ON A SIXTY-YEAR-OLD DEBT?

SI FRUMKIN>> I JUST WANT THEM TO PAY. I WANT THEM TO PAY FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO PEOPLE LIKE ME, WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO THE MEMORY OF MY FATHER, MY GRANDPARENTS, MY UNCLES AND MY AUNTS.

VAL>> AND THEN, A PRICELESS COLLECTION OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY STORED IN A GARAGE.

ALL THIS AND MORE STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> HELLO, I'M VAL ZAVALA REPORTING FROM THE ORIGINAL FARMERS MARKET IN LOS ANGELES'S FAIRFAX DISTRICT. THIS HAS LONG BEEN THE HEART OF THE CITY'S JEWISH COMMUNITY. MANY RESIDENTS HERE ARE SURVIVORS OF THE HOLOCAUST. BUT WHILE THEY'VE OUTLIVED THE HORRORS OF NAZI GERMANY, SOME WONDER IF THEY'LL LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO COLLECT ON AN OLD DEBT. TONI GUINYARD TELLS US ABOUT THE SURVIVORS WHO ARE NOW FIGHTING A NEW BATTLE WITH INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT NEVER PAID OFF.

JOSEPH GOLDFARB>> MY FATHER PAID INSURANCE AND NOW THEY SAY THEY DON'T HAVE ANY CLAIM.

TONI GUINYARD>> JOSEPH GOLDFARB IS THE SON OF A POLISH FLOUR MILL OWNER. HE IS ONE OF AN ESTIMATED 15,000 TO 20,000 HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS LIVING IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. HE, LIKE SO MANY OTHER SURVIVORS OF THE NAZI DEATH CAMPS, HAS COMPLETED FORM AFTER FORM, WRITTEN LETTER AFTER LETTER, IN AN EFFORT TO CASH IN EUROPEAN INSURANCE POLICIES HE SAYS HIS FATHER PURCHASED PRIOR TO WORLD WAR II.

JOSEPH GOLDFARB>> MY FATHER PAID INSURANCE ALL THE TIME WHILE HE WAS INSURED AND NOW, AFTER THIS HAPPENED, THEY WASH THEIR HANDS. I MEAN, THEY SAY WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY CLAIM. WE DIDN'T PAY ANY INSURANCE.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE PROBLEM, HE HAS NO PROOF THE POLICIES EXISTED. NO DOCUMENTATION TO CONFIRM WHAT HIS FATHER PAID, ONLY HIS MEMORIES IN HIS WORDS ON PAPER. IT'S A SITUATION CONFRONTING MICHAEL FREEMAN EVERY DAY. HE IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE BET TDESEK HOLOCAUST REPARATIONS PROGRAM. THE NONPROFIT PUBLIC INTEREST LAW FIRM IS HELPING PEOPLE LIKE JOSEPH GOLDFARB TRY TO GET MONEY THEY SAY IS OWED TO THEM BY INSURANCE COMPANIES.

MICHAEL FREEMAN>> ALL THE REPARATIONS MONEY THAT PEOPLE ARE FILING CLAIMS FOR IS THEIR MONEY. IT'S A RETURN OF THEIR MONEY. IT'S A RETURN OF THEIR ASSETS. THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TOOK THE POSITION, IN SOME INSTANCES, THAT THE PREMIUMS WERE NOT PAID. WELL, FOR THOSE SURVIVORS THAT WERE IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS, FOR THOSE SURVIVORS THAT WERE FORCED INTO SLAVE LABOR CAMPS, THEY COULD NOT PAY THOSE PREMIUMS.

TONI GUINYARD>> FREEMAN IS HELPING SURVIVORS APPEAL TO ICHEIC, THE INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION ON HOLOCAUST-ERA INSURANCE CLAIMS. IT'S CHAIRED BY FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE, LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER. FREEMAN SAYS ICHEIC HAS REJECTED MOST CLAIMS AND SETTLED LESS THAN THREE PERCENT FILED.

MICHAEL FREEMAN>> THE OFFERS ARE INSULTING. FOR EXAMPLE, POLICIES OF $20,000, PEOPLE ARE OFFERED $500. PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD CLAIMS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBSTANTIATED BY DOCUMENTATION ARE BEING IGNORED.

TONI GUINYARD>> ICHEIC RELEASED A LIST OF 360,000 NAMES OF HOLOCAUST-ERA INSURANCE POLICYHOLDERS. IT'S WHAT HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR, SI FRUMKIN, HAS BEEN WAITING FOR.

SI FRUMKIN>> THROUGHOUT ALL THESE YEARS, THE INSURANCE COMPANIES IN EUROPE ABSOLUTELY REFUSED TO RELEASE THE LISTS WITH THE NAMES OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAD BOUGHT LIFE INSURANCE POLICIES FROM THEM BEFORE THE WAR. I LOOKED AT THE LIST THAT WAS PUBLISHED. ON THAT LIST, THERE IS, TO MY AMAZEMENT, AN AARON FRUMKIN, WHICH IS NOT MY FATHER'S NAME, BUT IT IS FROM OUR TOWN.

TONI GUINYARD>> FRUMKIN AND HIS PARENTS SURVIVED THREE YEARS IN A GERMAN CONCENTRATION CAMP. HIS FATHER, NICHOLAS, DIED TWENTY DAYS BEFORE U.S. LIBERATION FORCES ROLLED IN. HE DESCRIBES HIS FATHER AS A WELL-EDUCATED, SOPHISTICATED, COSMOPOLITAN BUSINESSMAN.

SI FRUMKIN>> IT IS INCONCEIVABLE TO ME, TOTALLY INCONCEIVABLE, THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL WOULD NOT HAVE HAD LIFE INSURANCE ON HIS WIFE, MY MOM, AND MYSELF. IT'S INCONCEIVABLE.

TONI GUINYARD>> ALTHOUGH FRUMKIN DOES NOT KNOW IF HIS FATHER HAD INSURANCE, HE FILED A CLAIM ANYWAY. HE SAYS, SINCE INTERNATIONAL INSURANCE WAS A GOOD INVESTMENT PRIOR TO THE WAR, IT SIMPLY MAKES SENSE.

SI FRUMKIN>> PEOPLE BOUGHT LIFE INSURANCE POLICIES FROM GERMAN COMPANIES, FROM SWISS COMPANIES, FROM ITALIAN COMPANIES, IN THE ABSOLUTELY FIRM BELIEF THAT EVENTUALLY THAT MONEY WOULD BE REPAID IF ANYTHING WOULD HAPPEN.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE WAR HAPPENED. THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED. THE HORRORS ARE DISCUSSED DAILY AT THE SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER'S MUSEUM OF TOLERANCE.

>> "THE HOLOCAUST IS A SINGULARLY JEWISH EXPERIENCE BECAUSE ONLY THE JEWS WERE DESTINED TO DIE JUST BY THE ACCIDENT OF THEIR BIRTH."

TONI GUINYARD>> BUT FEW HEAR ABOUT THE STRUGGLES HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS ARE HAVING WITH INSURANCE CLAIMS. MANY SURVIVORS SENSE THEY ARE IN A RACE AGAINST TIME IN A BATTLE PITTING THEM AGAINST EUROPEAN INSURANCE COMPANIES.

JOSEPH GOLDFARB>> HARD.

SI FRUMKIN>> WE'RE OLD. PRETTY SOON WE'LL BE DEAD AND, ONCE I AM GONE, WHO IS GOING TO ASK FOR MY FATHER'S INSURANCE CLAIM? NOBODY, AND THEY'LL WIN BECAUSE TIME HAS PASSED AND TIME IS PASSING. TIME IS ON THEIR SIDE.

JOSEPH GOLDFARB>> IT'S NOT FAIR. THEY'RE TRYING TO GET AWAY. I MEAN, THE MONEY THEY TOOK IN, THEY WANT TO KEEP IT. I MEAN, THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY OUT.

TONI GUINYARD>> SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

JOSEPH GOLDFARB>> NOTHING. THEY'RE WAITING UNTIL WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE OUT AND THAT'S IT.

SI FRUMKIN>> THEY'LL CONTINUE BUYING THE JET PLANES AND THE VILLAS ON THE RIVIERA WHILE SOME OF THE SURVIVORS HERE WHOSE PARENTS MAY HAVE HAD INSURANCE ON THEM WILL CONTINUE LIVING IN OLD FOLKS' HOMES AND EATING DOG FOOD.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE ANGER FUELS FRUMKIN'S EFFORTS TO HELP INDIGENT HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS. HE SPENDS HOUR AFTER HOUR GOING THROUGH BOXES OF APPLICATIONS FROM THOSE REQUESTING FINANCIAL HELP. SURVIVOR JOSEPH GOLDFARB USES MUSIC AS A WAY TO ESCAPE, EACH NOTE HELPING EASE PRESENT FRUSTRATIONS, IF ONLY FOR A FEW MINUTES EACH DAY.

JOSEPH GOLDFARB>> OUR GENERATION IS GOING. ALL THE SURVIVORS, I MEAN, EVERY DAY YOU HAVE FUNERALS. I'M EIGHTY-SIX YEARS OLD. IT HAPPENS I'M IN GOOD SHAPE. NOT EVERYBODY MY AGE IS SO LUCKY.

VAL>> HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS TRYING TO COLLECT RECENTLY LOST THE BATTLE IN THE U.S. SUPREME COURT. THE COURT LOOKED AT THE CALIFORNIA LAW, THE LAW REQUIRING ALL INSURANCE COMPANIES DOING BUSINESS IN THE STATE, TO PUBLISH A LIST OF UNPAID HOLOCAUST-ERA INSURANCE POLICIES, BUT THE HIGH COURT STRUCK THAT LAW DOWN. IT SAID THE CALIFORNIA STATUTE WAS TREADING ON FEDERAL TERRITORY. MEANWHILE, SEVERAL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ARE WORKING ON A NATIONAL VERSION OF THE CALIFORNIA LAW.

KCET.ORG IS THE PLACE TO LOOK FOR THE LATEST ON LIFE AND TIMES. YOU'LL FIND PREVIEWS OF UPCOMING STORIES, TRANSCRIPTS AND AUDIO OF PAST EPISODES AND LINKS TO SOME OF OUR MOST INTERESTING FEATURES. JUST GO TO KCET.ORG AND CLICK ON "LIFE AND TIMES".

VAL>> THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN WATCHING LIFE AND TIMES FOR YEARS ARE USED TO SEEING ME IN THE STUDIO, BUT NOW WE'RE DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT. WE'RE TAKING THE SHOW ON THE ROAD, LITERALLY. EVERY NIGHT, YOU'LL SEE US REPORTING FROM VARIOUS PLACES AND COMMUNITIES WHERE THE STORIES ARE.

ONE OF THOSE PLACES IS JUNIOR'S DELI IN WESTWOOD. THAT'S WHERE OUR POLITICAL ANALYST, KERMAN MADDOX, SAT DOWN WITH BILL BOYARSKY. YOU MAY KNOW BILL FROM HIS DAYS AT THE LOS ANGELES TIMES. WELL, NOW THIS VETERAN JOURNALIST IS ABOUT TO BECOME AN OFFICIAL WATCHDOG AT CITY HALL. TONIGHT HE AND KERMAN GO ONE-ON-ONE.

KERMAN MADDOX>> SO YOU'VE BEEN NOMINATED TO BE ON THE ETHICS COMMISSION. IF THERE IS ONE THING YOU'D LIKE TO ACCOMPLISH ONCE YOU ARE APPOINTED -- I'M SURE YOU'RE GOING TO GET APPOINTED -- WHAT WOULD BE THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU'D LIKE TO FOCUS ON?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, I'D LIKE TO MAKE THE WHOLE ISSUE OF CAMPAIGN FINANCING AND ETHICAL CONDUCT MORE A PART OF THE PUBLIC DEBATE AND YOU CAN DO THAT THROUGH THE ETHICS COMMISSION THROUGH ITS MEETINGS, THROUGH DEVICES LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, PERHAPS THE ETHICS COMMISSION COULD MEET WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD COUNCILS THAT ARE SPRINGING UP AROUND THE CITY, MAYBE THE CITY TELEVISION CHANNEL COULD PUT THE ETHICS COMMISSION MEETING ON THE CITY CHANNEL. I REALIZE VERY FEW PEOPLE WOULD WATCH IT, MAYBE EIGHT, BUT --

KERMAN MADDOX>> -- I MEAN, IF WE DID A TOUR OF THIS RESTAURANT RIGHT HERE, JUNIOR'S RESTAURANT, WOULD ANYBODY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE ETHICS COMMISSION?

BILL BOYARSKY>> NO, PROBABLY NOT. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, JUNIOR'S HAS A REALLY WELL-INFORMED CLIENTELE. I'D SAY THAT THEY PROBABLY WOULD --

KERMAN MADDOX>> -- IT'S A POSSIBILITY.

BILL BOYARSKY>> OH, YEAH, RIGHT. THOSE READING THE LOS ANGELES TIMES HERE OVER BREAKFAST AND TALKING ABOUT POLITICS.

KERMAN MADDOX>> SO WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY GET WHEN WE SPEND MONEY FOR THE ETHICS COMMISSION?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, IF YOU'RE LIVING IN AN AREA, FOR INSTANCE, IN THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY AND SUDDENLY A LARGE SUBDIVISION OR A LARGE MALL POPS UP NOT TOO FAR FROM YOUR HOUSE, YOU'D WANT TO KNOW WHETHER YOUR REPRESENTATION IN THE CITY COUNCIL OR WHETHER THE MAYOR OR ANY OTHER CITY OFFICIAL RECEIVED CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS FOR THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPER OR THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPER'S LOBBYIST.

KERMAN MADDOX>> YOU GUYS ARE INVESTIGATING ETHICAL BEHAVIOR?

BILL BOYARSKY>> RIGHT.

KERMAN MADDOX>> CONFLICTS OF INTEREST?

BILL BOYARSKY>> CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

KERMAN MADDOX>> CORRUPTION?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, NO, NOT NECESSARILY. WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE THAT THE CAMPAIGN LAWS ARE ENFORCED SO THAT THERE IS DISCLOSURE, SO THAT THE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, DON'T EXCEED THE LIMITS, ACCEPT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO ACCEPT AND THAT THEY REPORT IT. ALSO, THE COMMISSION ADMINISTERS THE PARTIAL PUBLIC FINANCING FEATURE OF THE LAW IN LOS ANGELES. AFTER YOU RAISE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY AND YOU RUN FOR CITY COUNCIL OR MAYOR OR CONTROLLER, YOU'RE ELIGIBLE FOR PUBLIC FINANCING.

KERMAN MADDOX>> LET'S TALK ABOUT PUBLIC FINANCING. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE THEORY BEHIND PUBLIC FINANCING IS THAT WE WOULD END UP ELECTING MORE CITIZEN POLITICIANS, PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CONTROLLED BY SPECIAL INTERESTS. DO YOU THINK WE'VE ACHIEVED THAT?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, I THINK WHAT PARTIAL PUBLIC FINANCING HAS DONE HAS BROUGHT CANDIDATES IN WHO NORMALLY COULDN'T RAISE THE MONEY TO ENTER THEIR PRIMARY. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THERE ARE TWO REALLY GOOD EXAMPLES OF VERY GOOD MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. ED REYES WAS AN UNDERDOG WHEN HE RAN FOR THE FIRST DISTRICT. HE HAD VERY LITTLE CHANCE, WAS ABLE TO RAISE ENOUGH MONEY SO HE COULD GET PARTIAL PUBLIC FINANCING AND THAT KEPT HIM IN THE RACE AND EVENTUALLY HE WON.

ANOTHER PERSON WAS JAN PERRY WHO REPRESENTS THE NINTH DISTRICT. SHE ALSO WAS NOT THE BIG FUNDRAISER WHEN SHE ENTERED THAT RACE, BUT PARTIAL PUBLIC FINANCING KEPT HER IN AND MADE HER A CANDIDATE. SHE WAS ABLE TO THEN RAISE MORE MONEY ON HER OWN AND SHE WON. SO I THINK THERE'S A CASE WHERE TWO VERY GOOD MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL WERE ELECTED BECAUSE OF PUBLIC FINANCING.

KERMAN MADDOX>> WHAT ABOUT SPECIAL INTERESTS? I REMEMBER EARLY WHEN PEOPLE DEBATED THE WHOLE FORMATION OF THE ETHICS COMMISSION THAT THE THEORY WAS, IF WE HAVE PUBLIC FINANCING, WE WILL SOMEHOW REDUCE THE INFLUENCE OF SPECIAL INTERESTS IN CITY HALL. HAS THAT HAPPENED?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, NO, BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE PARTIAL PUBLIC FINANCING AND THE INTEREST GROUPS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN CITY HALL, WHICH ARE BASICALLY LABOR UNIONS AND PEOPLE WHO DO BUSINESS WITH THE CITY OR ARE REGULATED BY THE CITY LIKE LAND DEVELOPERS AND A WHOLE VARIETY OF OTHER INSTITUTIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS, CAN STILL CONTRIBUTE. THE ONLY ANSWER TO THAT WOULD BE COMPLETE FULL PUBLIC FINANCING OF ELECTIONS.

KERMAN MADDOX>> DO YOU THINK THE PUBLIC WOULD SUPPORT THAT?

BILL BOYARSKY>> THE PUBLIC IS NOT READY FOR THAT AND THE PUBLIC TREASURY IS NOT READY FOR THAT, SO THAT'S REALLY AN IMPOSSIBILITY.

KERMAN MADDOX>> I WANT TO DO A WORD ASSOCIATION. WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS THROW OUT THE NAME AND YOU JUST GIVE ME A RESPONSE. FORMER POLICE CHIEF DARYL GATES?

BILL BOYARSKY>> REALLY VOLATILE. STARTED OUT WITH ABSOLUTE GREAT PROMISE AND REALLY DID A GOOD JOB FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS, BUT STAYED ON THE JOB TOO LONG, I THINK. THEN WHEN THE RIOT HIT, THE DEPARTMENT WAS UNPREPARED.

KERMAN MADDOX>> THE RECALL OF GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS?

BILL BOYARSKY>> I THINK THAT'S A BAD IDEA, BAD IDEA. I MEAN, IT'S GOING TO JUST CLEAR THE WAY FOR RECALL AFTER RECALL. YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK THAT IT'S A BAD IDEA.

KERMAN MADDOX>> MAYOR JIMMY HAHN?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, I THINK HE DOESN'T USE THE POWER OF THE OFFICE AS WELL AS HIS PREDECESSORS, EVEN THOUGH HE HAS MORE POWER THAN MAYOR RIORDAN OR MAYOR BRADLEY DID. BUT HE DOESN'T USE HIS POWER WELL AND HE DOESN'T HAVE MAYOR BRADLEY'S ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE AND WORK WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.

KERMAN MADDOX>> FORMER SPEAKER ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA?

BILL BOYARSKY>> HE'S PROBABLY THE MOST CHARISMATIC POLITICIAN AROUND. HE'S CITY COUNCILMAN, RAN FOR MAYOR, LOST TO HAHN. HE'S VERY CHARISMATIC, MAYBE TOO MUCH SO IN THAT PARTICULAR ELECTION. MAYBE THE PEOPLE NEED ANOTHER ELECTION TO GET USED TO HIM.

KERMAN MADDOX>> YOUR OBSERVATION ABOUT ONE OTHER THING. WE'VE GOT SOME PRETTY HIGH-STRUNG DOMINANT PERSONALITIES ON THE CITY COUNCIL. ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA, FORMER CHIEF BERNARD PARKS WORKING WITH THE CURRENT MAYOR, JIMMY HAHN. HOW IS THAT GOING TO WORK?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE COUNCIL IS REALLY GOOD. I MEAN, EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT THE OLD COUNCIL AND THE OLD DAYS. I THINK THIS COUNCIL HAS MUCH MORE DEPTH THAN PREVIOUS COUNCILS HAD. IT HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCED, REALLY SMART POLITICIANS. IT'S GOT A GOOD ETHNIC MIX, IT'S GOT A GOOD TALENT MIX, SO I THINK THEY'LL DO VERY WELL. IT'S A TOUGH ONE FOR HAHN. I MEAN, HAHN JUST CAN'T ORDER THEM AROUND. I MEAN, HE'S GOT TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THEM.

KERMAN MADDOX>> OKAY. YOUR PREDICTIONS ON THE RECALL. DOES IT QUALIFY?

BILL BOYARSKY>> WELL, THEY'VE GOT THIS REALLY SMART SECRETARY OF STATE NAMED KEVIN SHELLEY AND HE'S FROM THIS REALLY SMART OLD SAN FRANCISCO POLITICAL FAMILY. I THINK HE'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME AND BE VERY CAREFUL BEFORE CERTIFYING THOSE SIGNATURES.

KERMAN MADDOX>> AND IF IT'S CERTIFIED, DOES THE TERMINATOR RUN?

BILL BOYARSKY>> I REALLY DON'T KNOW THAT. I MEAN, I COULDN'T TELL YOU THAT. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHETHER HE'S SERIOUS ABOUT RUNNING OR HE'S JUST PROMOTING THAT MOVIE OF HIS.

KERMAN MADDOX>> BILL BOYARSKY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON LIFE AND TIMES.

VAL>> BOYARSKY'S YEARS AS A POLITICAL OBSERVER MAY SOON COME IN HANDY. THE ETHICS COMMISSION HAS BEEN URGING THE LOS ANGELES CITY COUNCIL TO REIN IN SO-CALLED SOFT MONEY SPENDING FOR LOCAL POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS. MORE THAN A MILLION DOLLARS WAS SPENT ON THIS YEAR'S COUNCIL RACES ALONE, BUT AFTER A HEATED DEBATE, COUNCIL MEMBERS APPROVED A WEAKER VERSION OF THE COMMISSION'S PROPOSAL.

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

VAL>> WE'RE HERE AT THE CRENSHAW DISTRICT AND I HEARD ABOUT MAYME CLAYTON A FEW YEARS AGO AND HOW SHE COLLECTS AMAZING AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY MEMORABILIA. SO I FINALLY DECIDED TO TRACK HER DOWN AND COME SEE IT FOR MYSELF.

VAL>> HELLO. HI, MAYME. HOW ARE YOU?

MAYME CLAYTON>> FINE. NICE TO SEE YOU.

VAL>> YOU TOO. THAT'S A PRETTY GOLD BLOUSE.

MAYME CLAYTON>> THANK YOU. COME ON IN.

VAL>> SO WE CAME TO SEE THIS LEGENDARY COLLECTION OF YOURS.

MAYME CLAYTON>> OKAY. JUST PUSH THE DOOR TOGETHER THERE.

VAL>> AND I HEAR IT'S, WHAT, OUT IN THE BACK?

MAYME CLAYTON>> OH, YES. WE HAVE TO GO OUT IN THE BACK SO WE CAN SEE EVERYTHING.

VAL>> WELL, YOU LEAD THE WAY. I'LL FOLLOW YOU. YOU HAVE LIVED HERE A LONG TIME. I CAN TELL.

MAYME CLAYTON>> YEAH, WE BOUGHT THIS PLACE IN 1946 AND WE HAD TO DO A LOT OF REMODELING TO IT.

VAL>> SO YOU MOVED AWAY FOR A SHORT TIME UP TO VIEW PARK?

MAYME CLAYTON>> YEAH, I STAYED UP THERE FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS AND THEN I DECIDED THIS HOUSE WAS PAID FOR, SO I MOVED BACK DOWN HERE.

VAL>> NOW DID THIS USED TO BE THE GARAGE HERE?

MAYME CLAYTON>> THIS IS A DOUBLE GARAGE AND I CONVERTED IT INTO THE LIBRARY. I HAD A GUY PUT THE SHELVES IN HERE FOR ALL THE BOOKS. I'VE COLLECTED ALL OF THESE THINGS.

VAL>> DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY BOOKS YOU HAVE HERE? YOU COUNTED? (LAUGHTER)

MAYME CLAYTON>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, I THINK IT'S CLOSE TO ABOUT 20,000.

VAL>> NOW, AVERY, YOU'RE HER SON?

AVERY CLAYTON>> YES.

VAL>> NOW WHEN DID YOUR MOM START COLLECTING THINGS? DO YOU RECALL WHEN YOU WERE A KID, DID SHE LIKE TO --

AVERY CLAYTON>> -- WELL, WHEN WE WERE LITTLE, SHE WAS COLLECTING.

VAL>> NOW WHAT'S SOME OF YOUR FAVORITE ITEMS THAT YOU'VE COLLECTED THAT YOU LIKE REALLY VALUE?

MAYME CLAYTON>> MY REALLY FAVORITE ONE IS PHILLIS WHEATLEY. I HAVE A BOOK.

VAL>> PHILLIS WHEATLEY? DO YOU HAVE IT HERE?

MAYME CLAYTON>> YES.

VAL>> CAN YOU SHOW IT TO US?

MAYME CLAYTON>> SURE.

VAL>> OH, GREAT. SHOW IT TO US.

MAYME CLAYTON>> IT'S IN HERE. IS IT OKAY IF WE GO INTO THE OTHER ROOM?

VAL>> BY ALL MEANS. YOU GO RIGHT AHEAD. WE'LL FOLLOW YOU.

MAYME CLAYTON>> PHILLIS WHEATLEY WAS BROUGHT TO THIS COUNTRY FROM AFRICA AS A SLAVE AT THE AGE OF NINE YEARS OLD. THE WHEATLEYS LIVED IN BOSTON AND THEY SAW HER AND THEY DECIDED TO BUY HER, PURCHASE HER. THEY PURCHASED HER AND THEY TAUGHT HER HOW TO READ AND HOW TO WRITE.

VAL>> SHE LIKE WROTE HER OWN AUTOBIOGRAPHY? LOOK AT THIS.

MAYME CLAYTON>> IT'S SOME POEMS SHE WROTE.

VAL>> OH, I ALMOST DON'T WANT TO HOLD THIS. 1773?

MAYME CLAYTON>> YES. SHE SIGNED IT. THIS COPY IS SIGNED BY PHILLIS WHEATLEY.

VAL>> BEAUTIFUL. SO THIS IS A COLLECTION OF POEMS THAT SHE WROTE.

MAYME CLAYTON>> RIGHT.

VAL>> NOW WHAT OTHER THINGS DO YOU LIKE ESPECIALLY IN YOUR COLLECTION?

MAYME CLAYTON>> I HAVE THIS BOOK. THIS IS A BOOK THAT WAS WRITTEN BY BOOKER T. WASHINGTON. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF HIM? (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) I'VE HEARD OF HIM. "BLACK BELT DIAMONDS".

MAYME CLAYTON>> YES. HE SIGNED IT.

VAL>> OH, MY GOSH. 1898. JULY 30, 1898.

AVERY CLAYTON>> THIS IS MARTIN LUTHER KING'S "STRIDE TOWARD FREEDOM". IF YOU'LL NOTICE, THAT'S HIS SIGNATURE THERE.

VAL>> OH, THAT'S VALUABLE.

MAYME CLAYTON>> YES, YES, IT IS.

AVERY CLAYTON>> ALEX HALEY, WHO WROTE "ROOTS", BECAME A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MY MOTHER BEFORE HIS DEATH AND THIS IS HIS SIGNATURE HERE. HE INSCRIBED IT TO HER.

VAL>> WELL, LOOK AT THIS. "FOR THE WESTERN -- YEAH, READ THAT FOR US.

AVERY CLAYTON>> "FOR THE WESTERN STATES BLACK RESEARCH CENTER, MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS, I DEEPLY SHARE YOUR SENTIMENTS THAT OUR HISTORY SHOULD BE PRESERVED. SINCERELY, ALEX HALEY."

VAL>> THAT IS REALLY NICE. SO DID YOU MEET HIM, MAYME?

MAYME CLAYTON>> OH, YES. I KNEW HIM VERY WELL.

VAL>> WAS HE NICE GUY?

MAYME CLAYTON>> VERY NICE, VERY NICE.

VAL>> AND YOU ALSO HAVE SOME OTHER FAMOUS AUTHORS THAT HAVE SIGNED, RIGHT?

MAYME CLAYTON>> OH, YES, YES.

VAL>> LET'S SEE WHAT YOU HAVE.

MAYME CLAYTON>> OKAY. I HAVE SOME OTHER BOOKS HERE THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW YOU. I'M SURE YOU HAVE HEARD OF LANGSTON HUGHES.

VAL>> EVERYONE'S HEARD OF HIM. THAT'S AMAZING. LANGSTON HUGHES.

MAYME CLAYTON>> YES. HE WAS A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE.

AVERY CLAYTON>> "THE BIG SEA".

VAL>> CARMEL, JANUARY 20, 1941, LANGSTON HUGHES, AND THE BOOK IS "THE BIG SEA".

MAYME CLAYTON>> IT'S LIKE AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY.

VAL>> THAT'S WONDERFUL. AND WHAT IS THIS ONE? OH, THIS IS PRETTY.

MAYME CLAYTON>> NOW THIS IN FIRST EDITION ONLY. THE POETRY WAS WRITTEN BY PAUL LAWRENCE DUNBAR.

AVERY CLAYTON>> FEEL THE COVER.

VAL>> ISN'T THAT PRETTY. OH, IT'S ALMOST LIKE EMBOSSED.

MAYME CLAYTON>> PAUL LAWRENCE DUNBAR WROTE THE VERSES. THE HAMPTON CAMERA CLUB TOOK THE PHOTOGRAPHS AND BARBARA ARMSTRONG DID THE DECORATIONS AROUND IT. BUT THE VERSES ARE SO BEAUTIFUL.

AVERY CLAYTON>> AND THEY'RE WRITTEN IN BLACK DIALECT.

VAL>> OH, REALLY? SO THERE ARE VERSES AND PHOTOGRAPHS. IT'S HARD TO WRITE IN DIALECT.

MAYME CLAYTON>> YEAH. HARD TO READ IT TOO.

AVERY CLAYTON>> ACTUALLY, PAUL LAWRENCE DUNBAR IS REALLY POPULAR IN JAPAN.

VAL>> AND, AVERY, YOU HAVE A FAVORITE ONE TOO?

AVERY CLAYTON>> OH, YEAH. THIS IS THE ONE BOOK THAT I LOVE. THIS ONE WAS PUBLISHED IN 1826 AND IT'S CALLED "THE NEGRO'S COMPLAINT". IT'S A POEM. ACTUALLY, IT'S "THE NEGRO'S COMPLAINT: A POEM" TO WHICH IS ADDED "PITY FOR POOR AFRICANS" BY WILLIAM CALPERT.

MAYME CLAYTON>> CALPERT WAS AN ABOLITIONIST.

VAL>> OH, HE WAS.

AVERY CLAYTON>> AND THE THING THAT I LOVE ABOUT THIS IS ALL THESE LITTLE ILLUSTRATIONS HERE. THEY'RE ALL HAND-PAINTED. NOW WHAT THEY DID WAS PRINT THEM IN BLACK AND WHITE AND THEN AN ARTIST WENT IN AND HAND-PAINTED EACH ONE. IT'S JUST A BEAUTIFUL LITTLE WORK OF ART.

VAL>> NOW HOW DID YOU GET INTO LIBRARY WORK?

MAYME CLAYTON>> WELL, ACTUALLY, I WENT TO APPLY FOR A JOB OVER AT THE DOHENY LIBRARY AND THEY HAD AN AD IN THE PAPER. WHEN I GOT THERE, THE GUY SAID WE WERE ADVERTISING FOR A MAN, BUT I GUESS WE CAN TAKE YOU (LAUGHTER), SO I GOT THE JOB AND I STARTED WORKING AT THE LIBRARY.

VAL>> THEY COULDN'T SAY THAT TODAY, YOU KNOW. THEY'D GET IN TROUBLE (LAUGHTER).

MAYME CLAYTON>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, ANYWAY, THEY GAVE ME THE JOB.

VAL>> WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO ALL THIS, YOU HOPE?

AVERY CLAYTON>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT TO GET IT OUT OF HERE. YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE REAL CONCERN BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN REALLY FORTUNATE IN THAT THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY DAMAGE TO THE COLLECTION. OUR GOAL IS TO ESTABLISH A WORLD-CLASS LIBRARY-BASED MUSEUM AND CULTURAL CENTER. WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO MAKE THIS COLLECTION AVAILABLE. THIS IS A REAL TREASURE AND I AM SO HUGELY PROUD OF WHAT MY MOM HAS DONE. YOU KNOW, SHE'S ACTUALLY SAVED BLACK HISTORY AND HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT? YOU KNOW, THAT'S LIKE A HUGE THING TO DO. YOU KNOW, SHE HAD A VISION.

VAL>> WELL, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR LEGACY TO BE? WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT YOU'VE DONE?

MAYME CLAYTON>> I JUST WANT TO KNOW THAT WE'RE PASSING THIS INFORMATION, ALL THESE THINGS THAT I HAVE GATHERED, TO FUTURE GENERATIONS. IT'S NOT ALWAYS FOR WHITE KIDS. IT'S FOR ANY KID, YOU KNOW? IT'S LESSONS HERE FOR ANYBODY. SOME OF THE SAME THINGS THAT OUR KIDS GO THROUGH, OTHERS KIDS ARE GOING THROUGH THOSE SAME PROBLEMS. IF WE CAN HELP EACH OTHER AND WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE OUR CHILDREN FEEL PROUD, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. IT WAS JUST SUCH A PLEASURE.

MAYME CLAYTON>> THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

VAL>> GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR COLLECTION.

MAYME CLAYTON>> IF YOU CAN, GIVE US A CALL AND LET US KNOW --

VAL>> -- OH, WE'LL LET YOU KNOW WHEN IT'S ON.

MAYME CLAYTON>> OKAY.

VAL>> OKAY. TAKE CARE.

AVERY CLAYTON>> BYE-BYE.

VAL>> MAYME CLAYTON AND HER SON, AVERY, HAVE ARRANGED FOR THE COLLECTION TO BE MOVED TO A MORE APPROPRIATE PLACE AND THEY'RE TALKING WITH A COUPLE OF ORGANIZATIONS ABOUT A PERMANENT LIBRARY FOR HER COLLECTION.

WE HOPE YOU'LL JOIN US FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF LIFE AND TIMES AS WE CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THE STORIES THAT MATTER. I'M VAL ZAVALA REPORTING FROM THE ORIGINAL FARMERS MARKET IN LOS ANGELES'S FAIRFAX DISTRICT. FOR ALL OF US AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

LIFE AND TIMES WAS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF
THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.