7/17/03

LC030717

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

A VETERAN COP LOOKS FOR JUSTICE IN A CRIME WHERE HE WAS THE
VICTIM, BUT WILL THE PRIEST WHO ALLEGEDLY MOLESTED HIM EVER BE
PUNISHED?

MANUEL VEGA>> THEY COULD PUT, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED PRIESTS IN
PRISON. THAT'S NOT REALLY GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WHAT'S
GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IS WHEN THEY LOOK AT THEIR CHECKBOOK
AND THEY REALIZE THAT THEY'VE LOST A TON OF MONEY.

VAL>> AND THEN WE'LL DROP IN ON A ONE-OF-A-KIND CAFÉ THAT IS
BREWING UP ESPRESSO AND SOCIAL CHANGE.

ALL THAT AND MORE STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF
THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY
OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF
MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> HELLO, I'M VAL ZAVALA REPORTING FROM THE RARE BOOKS ROOM
IN LOS ANGELES'S CENTRAL LIBRARY. A LITTLE LATER, WE'LL BE
MEETING WITH AN AUTHOR HERE. HE'S WRITTEN A COMPELLING BIOGRAPHY
ON BENJAMIN FRANKLIN. YOU'LL WANT TO STAY TUNED FOR OUR
CONVERSATION WITH WALTER ISAACSON.

BUT FIRST, THE STORY ABOUT MOLESTATION VICTIMS AND THE CATHOLIC
CHURCH. THEIR LIVES HAVE TAKEN A MAJOR TURN SINCE THE SUPREME
COURT STRUCK DOWN A CALIFORNIA LAW AIMED AT SO-CALLED PREDATOR
PRIESTS. PHILIP BRUCE TELLS US THE IMPACT THAT THAT RULING IS
HAVING ON ONE LOCAL VICTIM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MANUEL VEGA IS GETTING USED TO BEING IN THE
PUBLIC EYE. DURING HOLY WEEK, HE WAGED AN EIGHT-DAY VIGIL
OUTSIDE OUR LADY OF THE ANGELS, HIS WAY OF DRAWING ATTENTION TO
THE LOS ANGELES ARCHDIOCESE AND ITS POSSIBLE ROLE IN PROTECTING
MOLESTER PRIESTS. A YEAR EARLIER, THE OXNARD COP AND FORMER
MARINE BROKE HIS SILENCE ABOUT WHAT HE CLAIMS A PRIEST DID TO
HIM BACK WHEN VEGA WAS A YOUNG ALTER BOY.

MANUEL VEGA>> HE WENT AS FAR AS MOVING ME AROUND THE GROIN AREA
TO THE POINT WHERE HE PUT HIS FINGER IN MY ANUS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> VEGA BECAME THE LEAD PLAINTIFF IN A CIVIL CASE
AGAINST THE CHURCH AND FATHER FIDENZIO SILVA WHO SERVED IN
VEGA'S BOYHOOD PARISH. THE VENTURA COUNTY DISTRICT OF ATTORNEY
EVENTUALLY FILED CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST FATHER SILVA, BUT THEN
THE U.S. SUPREME COURT STRUCK DOWN PART OF CALIFORNIA'S
MOLESTATION LAW AND THE CHARGES, LIKE THOSE AGAINST SO MANY
OTHER MOLESTER PRIESTS, WENT AWAY.

MANUEL VEGA>> IT'S A SAD THING. I MEAN, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE
WERE LOOKING FOR THE SATISFACTION AND I GUESS BEING VALIDATED IN
COURT BY HAVING THE PERPETRATOR ARRESTED AND SENTENCED.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT VEGA SAYS ALL ALONG THAT HE'S BEEN MORE
FOCUSED ON THE CIVIL SUIT AGAINST THE CHURCH THAN ON THE PRIEST
WHO ALLEGEDLY MOLESTED HIM AND THE OTHER ALTER BOYS.

MANUEL VEGA>> IT'S NOT THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE MYSELF RICH. I'M
NOT A GOLD-DIGGER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT THAT'S THE ONLY WAY
IN TODAY'S SOCIETY THAT YOU GET THINGS DONE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> VEGA SAYS HE WANTS THE CHURCH TO ACCEPT
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE SCANDAL AND TO CHANGE THE PRACTICES THAT
PROTECTED THE MOLESTERS, BUT NOT THE CHILDREN.

MANUEL VEGA>> I MEAN, IT'S THE SAME THING WITH THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT. YOU COULD HAVE A BAD COP, YOU KNOW, BAD SHOOTING OR
WHATEVER. YOU COULD PUT THE COP IN JAIL. IT MIGHT FOR A MOMENT
PACIFY THE CROWDS, BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE DEPARTMENT GETS HIT
WITH A MAJOR LAWSUIT, NOW THEY'RE CHANGING POLICIES. NOW THEY'RE
PUTTING IN SAFEGUARDS NOT TO, YOU KNOW, LET ANOTHER BAD COP IN.

PHILIP BRUCE>> ATTORNEY RAYMOND BOUCHER IS REPRESENTING VEGA AND
OTHER PLAINTIFFS IN THE CIVIL CASE. HE SAYS THE SUPREME COURT'S
RULING ON THE CRIMINAL LAW SHOULDN'T AFFECT THE CIVIL CASES
CURRENTLY ON FILE AGAINST THE CHURCH.

RAYMOND BOUCHER>> I DON'T THINK THE SUPREME COURT DECISION IS
GOING TO HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE CIVIL CASES. I DON'T
BELIEVE THAT THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON THE CIVIL CASES IS
SUBJECT TO CONSTITUTIONAL CHALLENGE AND, IF IT WAS CHALLENGED, I
DON'T THINK THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT WOULD RULE THE WAY
THAT IT DID IN THE CRIMINAL CASES.

PHILIP BRUCE>> IN FACT, BOUCHER CLAIMS THE HIGH COURT'S RULING
COULD MAKE HIS JOB EASIER.

RAYMOND BOUCHER>> CLEARLY, NOW THE PRIESTS CAN'T TAKE THE FIFTH
AMENDMENT, SO WHEN THEIR DEPOSITIONS ARE TAKEN, THEY'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO SUBMIT TO THE DEPOSITION PROCESS AND HAVE TO TELL THE
TRUTH. THEY CAN'T HIDE BEHIND THE FIFTH, WHICH MEANS WE'RE GOING
TO GET A LOT OF INFORMATION FROM THEM THAT WE COULD NOT
OTHERWISE HAVE OBTAINED.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AS A CHILD, MANUEL VEGA LIVED IN THIS
NEIGHBORHOOD AND MADE THE SHORT WALK TO ATTEND OUR LADY OF
GUADALUPE CHURCH. HE ALSO WENT TO THE PARISH SCHOOL.

MANUEL VEGA>> HERE I WAS GROWING UP IN THE COLONIA, IN THE POOR
TOWN OF OXNARD, YOU KNOW, LIVING IN THE PROJECTS. WHEN I WOULD
GO OVER THERE, HE WOULD OPEN UP THESE BOOKS ABOUT THE WORLD AND
ABOUT HISTORY AND ABOUT CHRIST AND, YOU KNOW, SHOW ME ALL THESE
SOPHISTICATED THINGS NOT ONLY TO ME, BUT TO THE OTHER ALTER
BOYS. SO WE HAD THIS HUGE ADMIRATION FOR HIM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> FATHER SILVA'S ONLY PUBLIC COMMENTS ABOUT HIS
PAST CAME IN A TELEVISION NEWS INTERVIEW WHEN KCBS TRACKED HIM
DOWN IN MEXICO.

>> "DID YOU EVER TOUCH THEIR PRIVATE PARTS?"

FATHER SILVA>> NOT THAT I REMEMBER.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT FATHER SILVA IS STILL IN
MEXICO, THOUGH NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY WHERE. MANUEL VEGA SAYS THE
PRIEST LEFT HIM AND SO MANY OTHERS WITH SCARS THAT WILL NEVER
HEAL.

MANUEL VEGA>> IT'S A CRIME OF ULTIMATE BETRAYAL BECAUSE YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT GOD, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN AUTHORITY FIGURE,
ESPECIALLY IN MY CULTURE AS AN HISPANIC. I MEAN, THE REVERENCE
AND RESPECT THAT'S GIVEN TO THE CHURCH. IT'S INCREDIBLE. IT'S AN
ABSOLUTE POWER. WHEN ALL THAT GETS TURNED AROUND AND YOU WAKE UP
ONE MORNING AND YOU REALIZE, OH, I'M A VICTIM, THIS WAS ALL A
BIG BETRAYAL, IT REALLY HURTS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> RAYMOND BOUCHER SAYS HE HOPES THE CHURCH WILL
WORK TO SETTLE THE CIVIL CASES RATHER THAN TRY TO OVERTURN THE
LAW THAT ALLOWS THEM.

RAYMOND BOUCHER>> IF THEY CHALLENGE THE CONSTITUTIONAL ASPECTS
OF THIS STATUTE AND THEY FORCE A COMPLETE LITIGATION OF ALL
THESE CASES, THEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY LONG UGLY
PROCESS FOR THE CHURCH AND I DON'T THINK THEY WANT TO RISK THAT.
I THINK THE PRIMARY MOTIVATION FOR THE CHURCH AT THIS POINT IN
TIME IS TO FIND A WAY TO TAKE CARE OF THE VICTIMS NOT UNDER ANY
NECESSARILY ALTRUISTIC FEELING OR STANCE, BUT BECAUSE OF THEIR
OWN SELF-PRESERVATION. THEY WANT TO GET THIS SCANDAL AWAY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> VEGA SAYS HE BELIEVES THAT BEING FORCED TO TAKE
CARE OF THE VICTIMS IS THE ONLY THING THAT WILL FORCE THE CHURCH
TO CHANGE.

MANUEL VEGA>> THEY COULD PUT, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED PRIESTS IN
PRISON AND IT'S NOT REALLY GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WHAT'S
GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IS WHEN THEY LOOK AT THEIR CHECKBOOK
AND THEY REALIZE THAT THEY'VE LOST A TON OF MONEY. THAT'S WHEN
THEY'RE GOING TO START, YOU KNOW, FEELING THE FINANCIAL HURT,
WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO INSTITUTE, YOU KNOW, POLICY CHANGES, PUT
IN SAFEGUARDS, START REPORTING THESE PERPETRATORS TO THE POLICE
AND STOP, YOU KNOW, DEALING BEHIND PEOPLES' BACKS IN SECRECY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> TODAY, MANUEL VEGA, THE OXNARD POLICE DETECTIVE,
OFTEN WORKS CHILD ABUSE CASES AND, UNFORTUNATELY, HE SAYS IT'S
LIKE A TRIP DOWN MEMORY LANE.

MANUEL VEGA>> WHEN I SIT IN MY OFFICE AND I SEE YOUNG CHILD
VICTIMS COME IN AND WE'RE INTERVIEWING THEM IN REGARDS TO THEIR
MOLESTATION, IT HURTS ME. IT BRINGS ME BACK TO THOSE DAYS WHEN
IT HAPPENED TO ME. JUST THE DECEPTION. IT'S REALLY DISGUSTING
WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT. SO PEOPLE NEED TO LOOK AT NOT THE OLD
CHUBBY GUY HERE, BUT THE YOUNG CUTE KID THAT WAS WALKING AROUND
INNOCENT.

VAL>> A SPOKESMAN FOR THE ARCHDIOCESE OF LOS ANGELES SAYS THE
SUPREME COURT'S RULING WILL HAVE NO IMPACT ON HOW THE CHURCH
DEALS WITH SEXUAL ABUSE AMONG THE CLERGY. THE ABUSIVE PRIESTS IN
QUESTION ARE OUT OF THE MINISTRY AND THE CHURCH SAYS THEY'LL
STAY OUT.

KCET.ORG IS THE PLACE TO LOOK FOR THE VERY LATEST ON LIFE AND
TIMES. YOU'LL FIND PREVIEWS OF UPCOMING STORIES, TRANSCRIPTS AND
AUDIO OF PAST EPISODES AND LINKS TO SOME OF OUR MOST INTERESTING
FEATURES. JUST GO TO KCET.ORG AND CLICK ON "LIFE AND TIMES".

VAL>> BOOKS AND COFFEE ALWAYS SEEM TO GO TOGETHER. EVEN THE LOS
ANGELES CENTRAL LIBRARY HAS A NICE CAFÉ. BUT THERE ARE SOME
NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE YOU WON'T FIND A STARBUCKS OR A COFFEE BEAN.
COMMUNITIES LIKE SYLMAR. SYLMAR IS A LOW-INCOME, MOSTLY LATINO
COMMUNITY IN THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY.
YOUNG PEOPLE THERE DON'T HAVE A LOT TO DO. THEY TEND TO HANG OUT
AT MINI-MALLS AND LISTEN TO RAP. BUT IN ONE MINI-MALL, THERE IS
AN UNUSUAL PLACE, A CULTURAL CAFÉ CALLED TIA CHUCHA'S, CO-
FOUNDED AND RUN BY A FORMER GANG MEMBER TURNED WRITER, BUT CAN A
CAFÉ REALLY CHANGE A COMMUNITY?

SO I THOUGHT I'D COME HERE AND SEE WHO FOUNDED TIA CHUCHA'S AND
THAT PERSON IS A GENTLEMAN BY THE NAME OF LUIS RODRIGUEZ. LUIS,
NICE TO SEE YOU.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> MY PLEASURE.

VAL>> NOW TELL US WHAT WAS THE WHOLE IDEA BEHIND THIS AND WHAT
NICHE DOES IT FILL IN SYLMAR?

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> WELL, THIS IS A COMBINATION CAFÉ, BOOKSTORE,
ART GALLERY AND PERFORMANCE SPACE. WE REALLY TRY TO EVEN EXPAND
IT TO INCLUDE FILM, RADIO, ART THEATER AND WOMEN'S HEALINGS, A
LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. I THINK THE IDEA IS TO HAVE A GATHERING
PLACE WHERE PEOPLE COULD DEAL WITH CULTURE, IDEAS, BOOKS,
LITERATURE, ART, LEARN ABOUT ART, PARTICIPATE, EXPRESS
THEMSELVES. THAT COMMUNITY WAS REALLY OF NEED --

VAL>> -- SO IT'S WAY MORE THAN A COFFEE HOUSE OR A PLACE TO GET
A LATTE (LAUGHTER).

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> MUCH MORE, MUCH MORE. IT'S REALLY, LIKE I SAY,
A CULTURAL CENTER COMBINED WITH A BUSINESS.

VAL>> VERY GOOD. LET'S SEE WHAT YOU'VE GOT HERE. YOU'VE GOT SOME
--

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> -- OVER HERE WE HAVE A BILINGUAL CHILDREN'S
BOOK SECTION, ILLUSTRATED. AGAIN, THIS IS TO TRY TO INTRODUCE
THE COMMUNITY TO BOOKS THAT THEY PROBABLY COULDN'T FIND. THERE
IS NO BOOKSTORE IN THE NORTHEAST SAN FERNANDO VALLEY.

VAL>> I COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT. THERE IS NO BOOKSTORE IN THIS
WHOLE AREA?

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> NO MOVIE HOUSE IN THIS AREA, NO REAL CULTURAL
CENTER, SO WE'RE CREATING A REAL VAST NEED. THERE IS NOW, BY THE
WAY, SINCE WE OPENED, ANOTHER BOOKSTORE HAS OPENED AND AN ART
GALLERY HAS OPENED, SO THINGS HAVE HAPPENED SINCE WE OPENED
HERE.

VAL>> AH, THE ART GALLERY. THIS IS VERY NICE.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> IT'S VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE WANTED TO HAVE
PEOPLE BE AWARE ABOUT ART AND HOW ART CAN BE EXPRESSED IN MANY
WAYS, PHOTOGRAPHY, PAINTINGS, VISUAL ARTS, STATUES, SCULPTURES,
BUT ALSO IT'S SOMETHING THAT ARTISTS DO AND MAKE A LIVING OUT OF
IT. SO WE HAVE HERE A PHOTOGRAPHY GROUP FROM EAST LOS ANGELES
AND THIS IS ONE OF THE EXHIBITS THAT WE ARE SHOWING.

VAL>> SO THESE WERE SHOT BY YOUNG PEOPLE?

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> YEAH, YOUNG PEOPLE IN EAST LOS ANGELES. VERY
BEAUTIFUL, THE WORK THAT THEY DID.

VAL>> BEAUTIFUL.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> THERE IS THIS TALENT IN THESE COMMUNITIES.
THERE ARE GREAT GIFTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE, BUT, AGAIN, WITHOUT A
PLACE FOR IT TO BE SHOWN OR TO BE EXPRESSED, IT'S ALMOST LIKE
IT'S JUST SITTING THERE.

VAL>> AH, THE WRITTEN WORD. NOW THAT'S YOUR THING.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> RIGHT. I AM AN AUTHOR, I AM A POET, I HAVE
CHILDREN'S BOOKS, I HAVE MEMOIRS, I HAVE FICTION THAT I LOVE
WRITING. I PERSONALLY THINK WORDS HAVE SAVED MY LIFE.

VAL>> NOW FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW YOU, DON'T KNOW YOUR STORY,
HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK, YOU COME FROM A PRETTY ROUGH BACKGROUND
AND YOU SAID READING AND BOOKS CHANGED YOUR LIFE. HOW SO? GIVE
US A LITTLE SAMPLE.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I WAS A VERY TROUBLED KID. I
MEAN, FROM GOING TO JAIL, IN THE GANG, USING DRUGS. I WAS IN
DRUGS FOR SEVEN YEARS. I WAS IN AND OUT OF INSTITUTIONS.

VAL>> HOW OLD WERE YOU?

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> I STARTED DRUGS WHEN I WAS TWELVE. I STARTED
GANGS WHEN I WAS ELEVEN. I STARTED STEALING WHEN I WAS SEVEN. I
WAS VERY YOUNG. I WAS LIVING IN SOUTH CENTRAL AND THEN THE EAST
LOS ANGELES COMMUNITY OUT IN SOUTH SAN GABRIEL. BUT YOU KNOW
WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT, WHEN I WAS IN JAIL ABOUT SIXTEEN YEARS
OLD, I STARTED TO WRITE MY THOUGHTS AND I EVEN STARTED TO DRAW.
ART WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ME TO EXPRESS WHAT I WAS GOING
THROUGH. AT A CERTAIN POINT WHEN I WAS AT THE AGE WHERE I FELT I
NEEDED TO MAKE A CHANGE, GET OUT OF DRUGS, DON'T GO TO JAIL NO
MORE, START HAVING A FAMILY, GROW UP, DO SOMETHING, WORDS
PRIMARILY WAS THE WAY THAT I WAS ABLE TO FIND MY PATH OUT OF IT.
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO FIND SOME WAY FOR YOU TO GET OUT. OTHERWISE,
YOU GET STUCK. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT THERE ARE WAYS OUT.

VAL>> AND YOU FOUND IT.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> I FOUND IT. IT TOOK ME A WHILE.

VAL>> AND YOU ENDED UP WRITING AN AWARD-WINNING BOOK.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> YEAH, IT TOOK A WHILE TO FINALLY GET TO THE
POINT WHERE I'M ACTUALLY WRITING BOOKS. MY FIRST BOOK THAT CAME
OUT, I WAS THIRTY-FIVE YEARS OLD.

VAL>> SO I CAN SEE NOW WHY YOU'RE ABLE TO PUT THIS TOGETHER
BECAUSE YOU WERE INFLUENCED SO MUCH BY ART AND IT WAS YOUR WAY
OUT, OBVIOUSLY, HELPING TO GIVE --

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> -- EXACTLY. HELPING TO GIVE BACK TO OTHERS.

VAL>> THAT'S FANTASTIC. TIA CHUCHA'S CAFÉ ALSO HAS THREE
COMPUTERS, ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR A COMMUNITY WITH SUCH LOW
COMPUTER USAGE. THEN THERE ARE MUSIC CLASSES, WORKSHOPS FOR
WOMEN, AND THERE IS SOMETHING UNIQUELY LATINO, A COMMUNITY
ALTER. THIS IS "EXPRESSION OF WAR".

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> YEAH. IT WAS THIS PERSON'S IDEA ABOUT THIS
WHOLE WAR, WHAT THEY FELT, THE FIRE, PROBABLY THE DANGER AND
ANGER THAT YOU MIGHT FEEL IN THE WAR.

VAL>> WE RAN INTO A TEACHER FROM SYLMAR HIGH SCHOOL. SHE SAYS
TIA CHUCHA'S IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED TO THIS
NEIGHBORHOOD.

MANON TREE>> FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, THIS IS THE ONLY HAPPENING
PLACE FOR KIDS IN SYLMAR. THEY HAVE ALL KINDS OF ACCESS TO BOOKS
AND LITERATURE HERE. THEY HAVE OPEN MIKE WHICH IS A REAL BIG
DEAL FOR THEM. OUR KIDS ARE VERY POETIC AND WRITE, THEY'RE
SMART, THEY'RE EXPRESSIVE AND WE HAVE NO THEATERS IN SYLMAR. WE
HAVE NOTHING HERE, SO TIA CHUCHA'S IS LIKE A REAL UNIFYING PLACE
FOR THEM.

VAL>> THE OPEN MIKE SHE MENTIONED IS EVERY FRIDAY NIGHT.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> "WELCOME, EVERYBODY, TO TIA CHUCHA'S OPEN MIKE
POETRY NIGHT."

VAL>> PEOPLE COME AND SHOW UP WITH THEIR POEMS.

>> "SO MANY PEOPLE TO HELP, BUT DO YOU HELP ANY? DO YOU SEE
PROMISE IN THE EYES OF THE YOUTH OR DO YOU VOTE TO CRIMINALIZE
THEM IN THE VOTING BOOTH?"

VAL>> SOME COME WITH THEIR GUITARS. LUIS'S CONTRIBUTION TONIGHT?
A POEM ABOUT THE FOURTH OF JULY WRITTEN BY A SLAVE.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> "THERE IS NOT A NATION ON THE EARTH GUILTY OF
PRACTICES MORE SHOCKING AND BLOODY THAN ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE
UNITED STATES AT THIS VERY HOUR."

VAL>> CAN A PLACE WITH COFFEE, BOOKS, CULTURE AND A STAGE REALLY
CHANGE A COMMUNITY? LUIS RODRIGUEZ HAS NO DOUBT.

LUIS RODRIGUEZ>> "JUST THINK IT'S A KIND OF A SENTIMENT TO THINK
ABOUT NOW WHEN WE KNOW THAT THIS COUNTRY IS UNDER A VERY STRONG
PRESSURE TO BE SOMETHING IT'S NOT. WE HAVE PEOPLE LYING ABOUT
WAR AND WE HAVE PEOPLE TAKING AWAY CIVIL LIBERTIES, SO REALLY
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE AT TIA CHUCHA'S AND WITH YOURSELF
IS TO VOICE YOUR DREAMS, VOICE YOUR CONCERNS, VOICE WHAT YOU
FEEL HAS TO BE SAID. WE NEED TO FIGHT FOR THAT FOR EVERYBODY.
THIS IS WHAT THIS COUNTRY IS ALL ABOUT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH."

MANON TREE>> THERE'S NO DRUGS OR ALCOHOL HERE AND NO CIGARETTES
HERE AND THE KIDS DON'T DO ANYTHING WHEN THEY'RE HERE EXCEPT BE
HERE AND GET INVOLVED, SO THIS IS A GOOD PLACE AND I'M REALLY
HAPPY ABOUT THAT. MAN, LUIS, SINCE HE CAME HERE AND HAS DONE
THIS, IT'S A GREAT THING.

>> "IS YOUR MIND USED FOR AMUSEMENT OR DO YOU USE IT AS A TOOL?
ARE YOU WILLING TO STAND UP FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS OR IS YOUR LIFE
DEVOTED TO TRYING TO IMPRESS EVERYONE AROUND YOU BY MATERIAL
POSSESSIONS...."

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VAL>> AS WE SAID EARLIER, WE'VE COME TO THE RIORDAN LIBRARY IN
DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES TO MEET THE AUTHOR OF A BOOK THAT SHEDS NEW
LIGHT ON ONE OF AMERICA'S FOUNDING FATHERS. THE BOOK IS ABOUT
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AND, AS IT TURNS OUT, HE HAD SOME AMAZING
ADVENTURES WE'RE JUST NOW LEARNING ABOUT. WALTER ISAACSON IS THE
FORMER MANAGING EDITOR OF TIME MAGAZINE AND, MOST RECENTLY, HE
WAS THE MAN IN CHARGE OF CNN. TONIGHT ISAACSON TELLS PHILIP
BRUCE HOW BENJAMIN FRANKLIN STILL HAS SOME THINGS TO SAY TO
TODAY'S AMERICA.

PHILIP BRUCE>> SO THE OBVIOUS QUESTION: WHY BEN FRANKLIN?

WALTER ISAACSON>> YEAH, BEN FRANKLIN IS THE FOUNDING FATHER
WHO'S REALLY MADE OF FLESH AND BLOOD AND I THINK EACH NEW
GENERATION CAN FIND SOMETHING TO LEARN FROM BENJAMIN FRANKLIN.
HE'S NOT LIKE WASHINGTON OR ADAMS OR JEFFERSON WHO WERE VERY
NOBLE, A BIT AUSTERE, KIND OF MADE OF MARBLE. THIS GUY WE CAN
RELATE TO. HE HAD A LOT OF FLAWS, HE WAS VERY AMBITIOUS AND
ENTREPRENEURIAL. HE LOVED TECHNOLOGY, HE LOVED THE INFORMATION
REVOLUTION, AND HE'S THE ONE WHO IS MOST LIKE US FOR BETTER OR
WORSE. I THINK WRESTLING WITH HIS VIRTUES AND HIS FLAWS CAN MAKE
US BETTER PEOPLE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE LEGENDS OF BEN
FRANKLIN, FIRST OF ALL, THE ONE WE'VE ALL HEARD SINCE WE WERE
KIDS. DID HE ACTUALLY TIE A KEY TO A KITE AND FLY IT IN A
THUNDERSTORM?

WALTER ISAACSON>> OH, YEAH. THERE ARE SOME WONDERFUL BOOKS ABOUT
HIS SCIENCE, INCLUDING I. BERNARD COHEN, WHO DID A GREAT BOOK
ABOUT BENJAMIN FRANKLIN. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THERE ARE TWO
PARTS OF THAT. FIRST OF ALL, HE DISCOVERS THE MOST IMPORTANT
SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY OF THAT ERA, WHICH IS THAT ELECTRICITY IS A
SINGLE FLUID AND IT GOES FROM POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE. HE INVENTS
THOSE TERMS, HE INVENTS THE TERM OF BATTERY. SO HE COMES UP WITH
A THEORY OF ELECTRICITY AND THEN HE SAYS, WHAT'S THE USE OF
SCIENCE IF WE CAN'T PUT IT TO A PRACTICAL USE? SO HE UNDERSTANDS
THAT POINTS ATTRACT ELECTRICITY, SO HE COMES UP WITH A TEST OF A
LIGHTNING ROD TO SEE IF IT CAN DRAW ELECTRICITY FROM THE CLOUDS,
AND IT DOES. THAT BECOMES AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT INVENTION
SINCE LIGHTNING WAS THIS DEVASTATING SCOURGE OF OUR SOCIETIES.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND THAT WAS ONLY ONE OF HIS INVENTIONS,
OBVIOUSLY, BIFOCALS --

WALTER ISAACSON>> -- YEAH, AND THE FRANKLIN STOVE. EVEN WHEN HE
WAS A YOUNG KID AND SAILS ACROSS ENGLAND FOR THE FIRST TIME,
HE'S TAKING THE TEMPERATURE OF THE WATER AND LOOKING TO SEE
WHERE HE EVEN CHARTED THE GULF STREAM. HE EVEN INVENTED THE BIG
ARM, THAT MECHANICAL ARM, SO HE COULD TAKE BOOKS DOWN FROM THE
HIGH SHELVES OF THE LIBRARY. I MEAN, HE JUST IS A COOL DUDE IN
ALL THE STUFF HE INVENTS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT THE FOUNDING FATHERS, MOST
OF THEM SEEMED VERY MUCH MEN OF THEIR TIME, BUT BENJAMIN
FRANKLIN IS ONE OF THOSE CHARACTERS THAT SEEMS AS THOUGH HE
COULD GO INTO OTHER CENTURIES. DO YOU SEE HIM AS SOMEBODY WHO
COULD EXIST TODAY IN THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY?

WALTER ISAACSON>> I THINK OF ALL THE FOUNDERS, IF HE PLOPPED
DOWN WITH US NOW, HE'S THE ONE WE WOULD MOST LIKE TO GO OUT AND
HAVE A BEER WITH. HE'D SAY EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE PALM PILOT
WORKS. HE'D JOKE ABOUT BILL CLINTON'S SCANDALS AND GEORGE BUSH'S
FOREIGN POLICY. HE'S THE PERSON YOU COULD HAVE AN EASY
CONVERSATION WITH. I THINK HE WAS THE MOST SORT OF MIDDLE-CLASS
REAL FOUNDER. HE BELIEVED IN DEMOCRACY TOO.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WELL, HE SAW THE POWER OF MEDIA CLEARLY EARLY IN
THE DAYS BEFORE THERE WAS A UNITED STATES AND WAS ONE OF THE
PURVEYORS OF THAT MEDIA. I MEAN, DO YOU SEE ANY COMPARISON
BETWEEN HIM AND MAYBE A TED TURNER OR A RUPERT MURDOCH?

WALTER ISAACSON>> YOU KNOW, THE THING ABOUT HIM, HE OPENS A
PRINT SHOP AND HE DECIDES, WELL, IF I'M GOING TO BE A PRINTER, I
MIGHT AS WELL BE A PUBLISHER, SO HE STARTS PUBLISHING. THEN HE
WANTS TO LAUNCH A NEWSPAPER BECAUSE HE WANTS SOME CONTENT. HE
WANTS TO MAKE HIS NEWSPAPER BEST OF ALL, SO HE WRITES FOR IT AND
HE GETS OTHER PEOPLE TO WRITE FOR IT. THEN HE DECIDES HE NEEDS A
LINE OF BOOKS, SO HE DOES "POOR RICHARD'S ALMANAC" AND SOON
THESE FRANCHISING, THESE PRINTING SHOPS AND PUBLISHING HOUSES
AND NEWSPAPERS ALL ACROSS THE COLONY FROM BOSTON DOWN TO
BARBADOS WITH HIS FRIENDS, APPRENTICES AND FAMILY MEMBERS.
FINALLY, LIKE YOU SAID, TURNER OR SOMEBODY ELSE, HE REALIZES IT
WOULD BE USEFUL TO CONTROL THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, SO HE HELPED
BUILD THE AMERICAN POSTAL SYSTEM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> NOW WHEN TIME MAGAZINE DID THE STORY ON YOUR BOOK
AND RECAPPING SOME OF THE STORIES, THEY HAD AN INTERESTING LINE.
THEY SAID BASICALLY THE STORY OF BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AS ACTION
HERO.

WALTER ISAACSON>> HE WAS THE ONE WHO WAS MOST ACTIVE OF ALL OF
THE FOUNDERS. HE DID EVERYTHING. HE WAS THE BEST WRITER OF HIS
TIME, THE BEST SCIENTIST OF HIS TIME, THE BEST DIPLOMAT OF HIS
TIME, THE BEST BUSINESSMAN AND BUSINESS STRATEGIST, AND HE WAS
THE MOST PRACTICAL POLITICAL THINKER, ALTHOUGH PERHAPS NOT THE
MOST PROFOUND POLITICAL THINKER OF THE TIME. SO YOU'LL NEVER
FIND ANYBODY TODAY WHO COULD BE ACTIVE IN SO MANY FIELDS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND YOU POINT OUT THAT HE ACTUALLY EDITED THOMAS
JEFFERSON WHEN IT CAME TO THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

WALTER ISAACSON>> YEAH. YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS WONDERFUL SCENE
IN PHILADELPHIA. JEFFERSON IS A YOUNG PROTÉGÉ OF FRANKLIN'S.
THEY'RE DOING THE DRAFTING OF THE DECLARATION AND JEFFERSON
WRITES THE FIRST DRAFT. HE SAYS, "WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE
SACRED AND UNDENIABLE" AND FRANKLIN CROSSES IT OUT WITH HIS OWN
BACK-SLASHING AND TURNS IT INTO, "WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE
SELF-EVIDENT". FRANKLIN WAS INTENT UPON BUILDING A SOCIETY, EVEN
THOUGH HE WAS A RELIGIOUS MAN, THAT WAS TOLERANT OF ALL
RELIGIONS AND HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTOOD THAT OUR
RIGHTS CAME FROM OUR NATURAL RIGHTS AND FROM REASON AND
RATIONALITY, NOT JUST IN THE DICTATES OF RELIGION.

PHILIP BRUCE>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE MAN AND HIS PERSONAL
RELATIONSHIPS. FIRST, IT'S BEEN WIDELY DISCUSSED OVER MANY YEARS
ABOUT HIS INTEREST IN WOMEN, THE FACT THAT HE WAS MARRIED, BUT
HE WAS A VERY ATTRACTIVE CHARACTER, MAYBE NOT IN THE CLASSIC
PHYSICAL SENSE, BUT HE HAD THIS CHARISMA ABOUT HIM. ALSO, IF YOU
COULD TALK TO ME ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS SON.

WALTER ISAACSON>> RIGHT. WELL, HE HAD A VERY COMPLICATED FAMILY
RELATIONSHIP. SOME PEOPLE SAY, WELL, ISN'T THAT HORRIBLE. WELL,
WAIT, WE ALL KNOW PEOPLE WITH COMPLICATED FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS.
THIS IS WHAT MAKES HIM MOST HUMAN. HE HAD A VERY PRACTICAL,
PRAGMATIC PARTNERSHIP WITH HIS WIFE WHO WAS A SCOLDING WIFE, AS
HE PUT IT. YOU READ "POOR RICHARD'S ALMANAC" OR SOME OF THE
ESSAYS HE WROTE ABOUT THE VIRTUES OF A SCOLDING WIFE. SHE KEEPS
HIM IN LINE, SHE HELPS YOU WITH A BUSINESS. SHE HELPED HIM WITH
THE BUSINESS AND TO BUILD THE BUSINESS.

SHE HATED TO TRAVEL AND THEY MADE AN ARRANGEMENT. SHE NEVER
TRAVELED. HE NEVER MADE HER SPEND A NIGHT AWAY FROM MARKET
STREET IN PHILADELPHIA. BUT HE WAS TRAVELING MOST OF THE TIME.
INCLUDING THE LAST FIFTEEN YEARS OF THEIR LIVES, HE WAS AWAY
MOST OF THE TIME. SO IT'S A PRACTICAL, BUT NOT DEEPLY ROMANTIC,
RELATIONSHIP. HE HAS AN ILLEGITIMATE SON RIGHT BEFORE THEIR
MARRIAGE NAMED WILLIAM, BUT HE TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE KID,
RAISES HIM, EDUCATES HIM AND THEY'RE VERY, VERY CLOSE. BUT
WILLIAM BECOMES A ROYAL GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY, STAYS LOYAL TO
THE BRITISH DURING THE REVOLUTION AND THEY IRREVOCABLY SPLIT
BECAUSE OF THIS OVER POLITICS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> HE WAS A MASTER AT USING HIS PRICKLY HUMOR TO
RAISE POINTS AND SOME OF THEM POLITICAL. WHAT DO YOU THINK
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, FROM YOUR STUDY OF HIM, WOULD MAKE OF THE WAY
AMERICANS TURNED OUT?

WALTER ISAACSON>> I THINK FRANKLIN WOULD LIKE THE FACT THAT
WE'RE A BASIC MIDDLE-CLASS DEMOCRACY, THAT WE TRUST THE COMMON
CITIZEN. HE WOULD HATE THE PARTISANSHIP. HE ALWAYS FELT THAT WE
COULD FIND COMMON GROUND AND HE DIDN'T WANT US TO BECOME TOO
IDEOLOGICAL BECAUSE HE WAS A PRACTICAL, PRAGMATIC MAN. HE'D SAY
LET'S NOT GO INTO EVERY DEBATE WITH AN IDEOLOGICAL LEFT-RIGHT
PRECONCEPTION. LET'S JUST LOOK AT SOME SIMPLE THINGS WHICH ARE
WHAT WORKS? WHAT'S BETTER FOR SOCIETY? WHAT WILL MAKE US A
BETTER COMMUNITY AND A BETTER NATION? SO HE WAS ALMOST LIKE A
SCIENTIST IN THAT WAY. HE WANTED TO BE PRACTICAL. I THINK HE
WOULD SAY WE'VE LOST THE VITAL CENTER. WE'VE LOST THE PASSIONATE
MODERATE TO JUST CARE ABOUT WHAT WORKS AND WE ONLY HAVE PASSION
ON THE FAR LEFT AND THE FAR RIGHT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WHAT'S THE RELEVANCE IN BENJAMIN FRANKLIN TODAY?
WHAT LESSON DOES HE STILL HAVE FOR US?

WALTER ISAACSON>> YOU KNOW, HE TEACHES US HOW TO LEAD A VIRTUOUS
LIFE, A MORAL LIFE, A MEANINGFUL LIFE AND EVEN A SPIRITUAL LIFE.
HE EVEN TEACHES US WHICH OF THOSE FOUR OR FIVE THINGS IS MORE
IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO WRESTLE WITH THAT. WE'VE GOTTEN TO
A PERIOD IN THE 90'S WHERE WE LOST TRACK OF OUR VALUES. SOME OF
IT'S IN THE CORPORATE WORLD, IN THE MEDIA WORLD, WE LOST TRACK
OF OUR VALUES. CERTAINLY FROM THE ENRONS AND WORLDCOMS WE DID
AND THE INTERNET BUBBLE WE DID, BUT ALSO IN OUR POLITICS, WE
LOST TRACK OF OUR VALUES.

WE'RE NOW FIGHTING IN A WORLD WHERE THE TOLERANCE AND BASIC
VALUES ARE UNDER ASSAULT. I THINK HIS RELEVANCE IS HE TEACHES US
TO RECONNECT WITH THOSE VALUES AND TO PAUSE A LITTLE BIT FROM
OUR PURE AMBITIONS. IT'S WHAT HE DID. HE WAS AN AMBITIOUS YOUNG
ENTREPRENEUR, BUT HE STEPPED ASIDE AFTER HALFWAY THROUGH HIS
CAREER AND SAYS I'M DEDICATING MYSELF TO THE WORLD OF IDEAS AND
THE WORLD OF IDEALS OF AMERICA.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WALTER ISAACSON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING
WITH US ON LIFE AND TIMES.

WALTER ISAACSON>> THANK YOU, PHIL. IT WAS GREAT TO BE HERE.

VAL>> BY TODAY'S STANDARDS, BENJAMIN FRANKLIN WAS NO SEX SYMBOL,
BUT HE CLEARLY HAD AN ENDURING APPEAL TO WOMEN. FRANKLIN LEFT US
WITH ONE THING ON ROMANCE THAT IS STILL TRUE TODAY: KEEP YOUR
EYES WIDE OPEN BEFORE MARRIAGE, HALF SHUT AFTERWARDS.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM. FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, I'M
VAL ZAVALA. THANKS FOR WATCHING.

LIFE AND TIMES WAS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF
THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY
OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF
MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE NEXT
BIG THING IN LOS ANGELES. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CULTURAL BOOM IN
NORTH HOLLYWOOD?

>> WE'VE GOT PEOPLE THAT ARE ROOTS, DOWN-HOME, BUSINESS OWNERS
THAT ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR BUTT ON THE LINE TO MAKE THIS
HAPPEN AND I THINK IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME.

VAL>> THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES.