7/18/03

LC030718

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE NEXT BIG THING IN LOS ANGELES. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CULTURAL BOOM IN NORTH HOLLYWOOD?

ANTHONY PASCUZZO>> WE'VE GOT PEOPLE THAT ARE ROOTS, DOWN-HOME BUSINESS OWNERS THAT ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR BUTT ON THE LINE TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN AND I THINK IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME.

VAL>> AND THEN, THE UPS AND DOWNS OF A TELL-ALL BOOK THAT ACCUSED GEORGE W. BUSH OF USING COCAINE. WE'LL MEET THE DIRECTORS OF THE FILM THAT GOES BEHIND THE SCENES.

ALL THAT AND MORE ON TONIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF
THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> HELLO, I'M VAL ZAVALA REPORTING FROM THE METRO STATION IN NORTH HOLLYWOOD. THIS IS ONE OF THE STOPS IN THE SUBWAY'S REDLINE CONNECTING THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY WITH DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES. IT'S ALL PART OF THE CITY'S PLAN TO TURN THIS AREA INTO A MAJOR CENTER FOR CULTURAL AND COMMERCE, BUT WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE REST OF THE PLAN? THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS SEEN ONLY A FRACTION OF THE NEW DEVELOPMENT THAT'S BEEN PROMISED FOR YEARS. BUT AS TONI GUINYARD TELL US, THAT MAY BE ABOUT TO CHANGE.

TONI GUINYARD>> AT FIRST GLANCE, THE NOHO ARTS DISTRICT APPEARS TO BE NOTHING MORE THAN AN ECLECTIC MIX OF THEATERS AND BUSINESSES SEPARATED BY VACANT LOTS, BUT RESIDENTS AND MERCHANTS SEE SOMETHING HERE THAT CAN'T BE SEEN BY THE NAKED EYE. THEY SEE WHAT THIS AREA COULD BE. THEY ENVISION NORTH HOLLYWOOD AS THE NEXT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA HUB OF ARTISTIC AND CULTURAL EXPRESSION.

AMY ROTH>> I ENVISION THIS AS WHAT MELROSE WAS AT ONE TIME OR MAYBE SOHO, NEW YORK. I REALLY THINK THAT THERE IS GREAT POTENTIAL FOR THIS AREA. I THINK THAT THIS COULD BE MORE OF A TOURIST ATTRACTION THAN HOLLYWOOD ITSELF.

ANTHONY PASCUZZO>> WE'VE GOT PEOPLE THAT ARE ROOTS, DOWN-HOME BUSINESS OWNERS THAT ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR BUTT ON THE LINE TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN AND I THINK IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME.

TONI GUINYARD>> TIME IS AN ISSUE. IN 1979, THE CITY TARGETED NORTH HOLLYWOOD FOR REVITALIZATION. SINCE THEN, MORE THAN $74 MILLION DOLLARS IN INCREMENTAL PROPERTY TAXES HAVE BEEN SPENT, BUT PROMISES OF DEVELOPMENT HAVE GONE UNFULFILLED. NEW BUSINESSES OPENED SHOP WITH THE EXPECTATION THE TRANSFORMATION WOULD ATTRACT CUSTOMERS. THE WAIT HAS BEEN A LOT LONGER THAN EXPECTED.

JASON LEIB>> IT'S JUST A DISTRICT THAT'S BEING IGNORED AND THEY'RE JUST NOT DOING ANYTHING WITH IT AS OF RIGHT NOW.

TONI GUINYARD>> WAIT A MINUTE. THEY HAVE ALL THESE PLANS ON THE BOARD.

JASON LEIB>> YEAH, BUT NOTHING IS GETTING DONE RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, THEY'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT IT. THEY'RE FIGHTING WITH THE LOCALS AROUND AND I'M NOT VERY CLEAR, BUT I DON'T SEE ANYTHING GETTING DONE. IT'S JUST A BUNCH OF TALKERS RIGHT NOW.

LILLIAN BURKENHEIM-SILVER>> THERE IS A LOT THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED. I DON'T THINK THAT WE WERE EVER PLANNING ON MAKING NORTH HOLLYWOOD A METROPOLIS.

TONI GUINYARD>> LILLIAN BURKENHEIM-SILVER IS A NORTH HOLLYWOOD RESIDENT. SHE IS ALSO THE PROJECT MANAGER FOR THE NOHO REDEVELOPMENT PLAN. SHE KNOWS THE AREA, SHE KNOWS THE PEOPLE AND SHE HAS SEEN THE PROBLEMS.

LILLIAN BURKENHEIM-SILVER>> WE SPENT YEARS GOING AROUND ASKING PEOPLE, DON'T YOU WANT TO COME TO NOHO? NORTH HOLLYWOOD'S GREAT, AND THEY GO, YEAH, YEAH, GO AWAY.

TONI GUINYARD>> SHE AND BUD OVROM, HEAD OF THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY, TOOK US OUT TO THE OFFICE BALCONY TO POINT OUT A FEW CHANGES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE.

LILLIAN BURKENHEIM-SILVER>> WELL, I THINK THAT YOU'RE ALREADY BEGINNING TO SEE MORE BECAUSE, AS YOU LOOK DOWN THE STREET AT THE DIFFERENT BUSINESSES THAT ARE STARTING TO LOCATE ALONG LANKERSHIM HERE --

BUD OVROM>> -- THE VERY HEART, THE VERY DEAD CENTER, GROUND ZERO, OF NORTH HOLLYWOOD AT LANKERSHIM AND CHANDLER IS THE MTA PORTAL.

TONI GUINYARD>> WITH THE SUBWAY AND THE BUS SYSTEM, NORTH HOLLYWOOD IS BEING PROMOTED AS A TRANSIT HUB WITH MASS TRANSIT PROVIDING EASY ACCESS TO THE COMMUNITY. THE REDLINE STATION IN NORTH HOLLYWOOD IS THE NORTHERNMOST END OF THE LINE ON THE ROUTE.

BUD OVROM>> IT IS ALSO THE EASTERLY TERMINUS OF WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE FUTURE EAST-WEST LINE GOING FROM NORTH HOLLYWOOD TO WARNER CENTER ON THE OTHER END OF THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY, SO IT'S LIKE THE MISSISSIPPI AND THE MISSOURI CROSSING IN TERMS OF MASS TRANSIT BUSINESS. THIS AREA REALLY SUFFERED THROUGH THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE REDLINE. I THINK THE REDLINE IS GOING TO BE A TREMENDOUS ASSET FOR THE COMMUNITY, BUT HOLY MACKEREL, WHILE IT WAS BEING BUILT AND ALL THE DISRUPTION AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO THIS AREA SUFFERED A REAL HARDSHIP BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE REDLINE, BUT NOW IT'S TIME TO REAP THOSE DIVIDENDS.

TONI GUINYARD>> HE EMBRACES THE BELIEF THAT, WITH THE RIGHT MIX OF BUSINESSES AND AN EMPHASIS ON THE ARTS, PEOPLE WON'T HESITATE TO USE THE SUBWAY TO GET TO AND FROM NORTH HOLLYWOOD. THEY'RE PINNING THEIR HOPES ON THE PLANNED NOHO COMMONS, A MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT SCHEDULED TO BE BUILT IN THE CORE OF THE BUSINESS DISTRICT, BUT EVEN THAT IS CAUSE FOR DEBATE.

AMY ROTH>> THIS IS AN ALTERNATE AREA. THIS IS AN ART DISTRICT AND WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD AN ART DISTRICT. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO BUILD THIRD STREET PROMENADE. WE WANT THIS TO BE AN ART DISTRICT, SO WE WANT TO SEE MORE OF A NIGHT LIFE. WE WANT TO SEE MORE ART STORES, MUSIC STORES, BOOKSTORES, THING THAT WILL ENCOURAGE CREATIVITY AND ENCOURAGE ART.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE HISTORIC EL PORTAL THEATRE SEEMS TO BE THE ONE PROJECT MOST IN THIS AREA USED AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT'S RIGHT. RENOVATED AFTER THE NORTHRIDGE EARTHQUAKE, IT IS THE LARGEST OF NEARLY TWO DOZEN THEATRES IN THE NOHO ARTS DISTRICT.

JAY IRWIN>> TOOTING MY OWN HORN HERE, WE LIKE TO THINK OF OURSELVES AS THE LINCHPIN OF THE DISTRICT.

TONI GUINYARD>> IRWIN IS LOOKING FORWARD TO CONSTRUCTION OF NOHO COMMONS AND THE FOOT TRAFFIC IT COULD BRING.

JAY IRWIN>> WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.

TONI GUINYARD>> BUT IS IT HAPPENING QUICKLY ENOUGH?

JAY IRWIN>> YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ASKING THE WRONG GUY. ME? I WISH IT WERE DONE TOMORROW, SURE. WE ALL DO, BUT NOW I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE PROCESS AND I KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF RED TAPE INVOLVED, BUT PEOPLE WANT IT DOWN HERE AND WE THINK THERE IS A LOT OF POTENTIAL.

TOM LABONGE>> I HAVE FAITH THAT THIS WILL TAKE PLACE AND I'M PUSHING VERY HARD WHETHER IT'S WITH THE CRA, WHETHER IT'S WITH THE DEVELOPER OR WITH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, TO BRING SOMETHING GOOD TO A VERY NEEDED AREA OF NORTH HOLLYWOOD.

TONI GUINYARD>> WHILE YOU HEAR A LOT OF TALK ABOUT POTENTIAL, THERE ARE ALSO CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT WILL BE LOST AS DEVELOPMENT PROGRESSES.

JOEL LARSON>> THEN THEY CREATE AN AREA AROUND IT THAT'S FILLED WITH ARTISTS AND THEN THAT SLOWLY GETS GENTRIFIED AND PEOPLE MOVE IN AND THEY TAKE OVER ALL THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS AND THEY PUSH THE POOR PEOPLE FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY.

TONI GUINYARD>> IN SOME WAYS, GROWING PAINS HAVE BEGUN.

>> THEY'RE COMPLAINING. PLEASE DON'T TOUCH THE GARBAGE CANS.

>> I'M NOT MAKING A MESS, MAN.

>> DON'T TOUCH --

>> -- I'M JUST BORED, TRYING TO MAKE MONEY.

TONI GUINYARD>> WITH DEVELOPMENT, THERE IS NO DOUBT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THIS COMMUNITY WILL CHANGE AS IT HAS OVER THE YEARS.

LILLIAN BURKENHEIM-SILVER>> NORTH HOLLYWOOD WAS BUILT UP MAINLY AROUND WORLD WAR I, WORLD WAR II, AS LOCKHEED BUILT UP. PARTICULARLY DURING THE WARS, THEY BUILT UP TEMPORARY HOUSING. IT WAS A FARMING COMMUNITY. THEY TURNED THOSE FARMS INTO TEMPORARY HOUSING AND NOBODY CAME BY AND MADE PERMANENT HOUSING OUT OF THEM. SO AS I WALK INTO SOME OF THE OLD HOUSES, AT MY FIVE FEET, I COULD REACH UP AND TOUCH SOME OF THE CEILINGS. I COULD NOT ONLY TOUCH THE CEILINGS, I COULD PUSH THEM UP BECAUSE THEY WERE CARDBOARD AND THEY HAD WIRES RUNNING ACROSS THE TOP.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT INCLUDES CONSTRUCTION OF HOUSING. THE PLAN INCLUDES AFFORDABLE HOUSING, ONE PART OF AN OVERALL PLAN TO BLEND RESIDENTIAL WITH COMMERCIAL VENTURES WHILE REDEFINING NORTH HOLLYWOOD AS AN ARTS COMMUNITY.

BUD OVROM>> WHAT IS IT THAT PEOPLE WANT THE COMMUNITY TO BE? THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME. WHAT IS THE VISION OF WHAT WE WANT FOR NORTH HOLLYWOOD?

VAL>> WILL NORTH HOLLYWOOD BECOME THE NEXT BIG THING IN LOS ANGELES? HARD TO SAY NOW, BUT WE'RE TOLD THAT SEVERAL PRIVATE DEVELOPERS ARE LOOKING FOR LAND AND MAKING DEALS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD EVEN AS WE SPEAK.

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VAL>> WE'RE ABOUT TO PREVIEW A NEW FILM THAT TAKES US BEHIND THE SCENES OF A MAJOR POLITICAL DRAMA. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BOOK THAT ACCUSED GEORGE W. BUSH OF USING COCAINE. "FORTUNATE SON" HIT BOOKSTORES IN THE FALL OF 1999, BUT WAS SOON YANKED OFF THE SHELVES AFTER THE REPORTER LEARNED THAT THE AUTHOR WAS A CONVICTED FELON. TONIGHT THE STORY OF HOW THAT BOOK WAS BROUGHT BACK FROM THE DEAD BY A SCRAPPY YOUNG PUBLISHER WHO CLEARLY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS GETTING INTO. IN A MOMENT, PHILIP BRUCE TALKS WITH THE DIRECTORS OF "HORNS AND HALOS", BUT FIRST HERE'S A CLIP FROM THE FILM.

>> "FOR GEORGE BUSH OUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL THIS PAST WEEK, IT WAS THE QUESTION THAT WOULDN'T GO AWAY."

SENATOR ORRIN HATCH>> "IF GEORGE W. BUSH HAS NOT USED COCAINE, HE OUGHT TO SAY IT. IF HE HAS, HE OUGHT TO SAY IT AND THEN SAY HOW HE OVERCAME IT."

PHILIP BRUCE>> SO TELL ME ABOUT THE TITLE "HORNS AND HALOS". WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?

MICHAEL GALINSKY>> WELL, "HORNS AND HALOS" IS ALL ABOUT TRYING TO KEEP THINGS REALLY BALANCED. HATFIELD, THE WRITER OF THE BIOGRAPHY OF GEORGE BUSH, SAYS AT SOME POINT IN THE MOVIE, WELL, IF SOMEONE WROTE YOUR BIOGRAPHY, YOU'D WANT THEM TO WRITE HORNS AND HALOS, THE GOOD AND THE BAD, BECAUSE THEN IT'S ACTUALLY RELEVANT AND IT'S BALANCED.

J.H. HATFIELD>> "I'M OFFENDED WHEN THEY SAY IT'S NEGATIVE. IF A BIOGRAPHER'S GOING TO WRITE A BOOK, THAT'S RIGHT. YOU WRITE HORNS AND HALOS. IF SOMEBODY WROTE A BIOGRAPHY OF YOUR LIFE, THERE WOULD BE PARTS YOU WOULD SAY I REALLY DON'T WANT THEM TO GO THERE, SO YOU WANT ME TO MAKE IT OUT TO YOU, JANE?"

PHILIP BRUCE>> THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT THE HORNS AND HALOS OF GEORGE W. BUSH. IT BECAME MORE ABOUT THE HORNS AND HALOS OF JIM HATFIELD, DIDN'T IT?

SUKI HAWLEY>> IT DID. IN FACT, IT BECAME MORE ABOUT THE HORNS AND HALOS BETWEEN THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE BOOK WITH EVERYONE IN THEIR LIVES EXCEPT BUSH PRETTY MUCH. HATFIELD, THE AUTHOR, HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NEW PUBLISHER, THIS SORT OF LOWER EAST SIDE PUNK ROCK PUBLISHER, SANDER HICKS. WE SORT OF FOLLOWED WHAT HAPPENED ON THEIR ADVENTURES TOWARD REPUBLISHING THIS BOOK.

SANDER HICKS>> "HI, I'M SANDER HICKS. THIS IS THE CONTROVERSIAL BIOGRAPHY OF GEORGE W. BUSH THAT ST. MARTIN'S ORIGINALLY DID IN OCTOBER 1999 AND THEY KILLED.

SUKI HAWLEY>> WELL, WE WERE ACTUALLY OUT OF THE COUNTRY WHEN THIS CONTROVERSY HAPPENED, SO WE DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT IT. WE WERE FLYING BACK FROM ASIA AND LOOKED IN THE BACK OF THE HERALD TRIBUNE AND THERE WAS A VERY SMALL ARTICLE ABOUT IT. YOU KNOW, BOOK ALLEGING BUSH COCAINE ARREST PULLED FROM SHELVES. BOTH OF US, YOU KNOW, LOOKED AT EACH OTHER WITH RAISED EYEBROWS. IT WAS LIKE WHY IS THIS STORY SO SMALL. YOU KNOW, THIS SEEMS VERY FORTUITOUS. LOTS OF QUESTIONS WERE RAISED, BUT THEY WEREN'T ANSWERED IN THAT ARTICLE. I GUESS IT WAS A WEEK AFTER WE HAD RETURNED, SANDER HICKS SENT OUT A PRESS RELEASE SAYING THAT HE WOULD REPUBLISH THIS BURNED BOOK.

>> "THE PUBLISHER, ST. MARTIN'S PRESS, INC. HALTED PUBLICATION OF THE BOOK AFTER THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS REPORTED THE AUTHOR WAS CONVICTED OF ATTEMPTED MURDER IN 1988."

GEORGE W. BUSH>> "OBVIOUSLY IF HE'S A CONVICTED FELON, HIS CREDIBILITY IS NOTHING, BUT HIS CREDIBILITY WAS NOTHING WITH ME TO BEGIN WITH BECAUSE HIS STORY WAS TOTALLY RIDICULOUS."

MICHAEL GALINSKY>> THE CENTERPIECE OF THE WHOLE THING IS THE REASON THE BOOK GOT PULLED IN THE FIRST PLACE IS BECAUSE, WHEN HATFIELD WAS CONFRONTED ABOUT HIS PAST, HE DENIED IT AND THAT'S WHAT GAVE ST. MARTIN'S THE EASY OUT TO SAY, OH, WE CAN'T TRUST YOU ANYMORE. BECAUSE IT WAS TRUE. HE HAD BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY IN THE PAST.

PHILIP BRUCE>> ATTEMPTED MURDER.

MICHAEL GALINSKY>> ATTEMPTED -- WELL, SOLICITATION OF A CAPITAL MURDER, HIRING SOMEBODY TO KILL SOMEBODY ELSE. HE DENIED IT WHEN IT CAME OUT IN THE PAPERS AND I THINK THAT WAS THE DEFINING MOMENT BECAUSE THAT DECISION IS WHAT REALLY KILLED THE BOOK.

J.H. HATFIELD>> "THEY ASKED ME AND, OF COURSE, I DENIED IT AT THAT POINT."

MICHAEL GALINSKY>> AND WE REPORTED IT IN SORT OF A VERY SMALL STORY IN THE PAPER AND EVERYBODY ELSE JUST WENT KIND OF NUTS ON IT. IT WAS ON THE FRONT OF THE WASHINGTON POST, THE NEW YORK TIMES. I'M NOT SURE IF IT WENT ON THE FRONT OF THE TIMES, BUT IT TURNED INTO A BIG STORY. IN FACT, THE PUBLISHER RECALLED THE BOOK.

SANDER HICKS>> "WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUBLISH WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PUBLISH. THE GEORGE BUSH CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN SAYING THAT IT'S 'LIBELOUS AND UNTRUE', AS IF THEY HAVE TO BE REDUNDANT IN THEIR LYING ABOUT US. WHEN THIS BOOK COMES OUT, THE ONLY WAY THEY'RE GOING TO BRING US DOWN IS LIKE SAYING WHO ARE THESE LEFT OF CENTER, PUNK ROCK, YOU KNOW, FLIBBERTIGIBBETS? WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SAY THAT WE'RE SOFT SKULLS."

PHILIP BRUCE>> TALK TO ME ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SANDER HICKS, THE YOUNG PUBLISHER, AND JIM HATFIELD, THE GUY WHO WROTE THE BOOK. WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

SUKI HAWLEY>> IT WAS VERY UP AND DOWN. IT WAS VERY COMPLEX. I MEAN, JIM HATFIELD WAS A VERY COMPLEX CHARACTER. HE WAS EXTREMELY CHARMING IN PERSON AND THEN, AS YOU SAID, WRITES EMAILS DAMNING, YOU KNOW, EVERY ACTION THAT SANDER HICKS UNDERTOOK AT ONE POINT.

SANDER HICKS>> "YOU KNOW, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO SEE THE REAL HATFIELD, WE CAN GO BACK. I CAN SHOW YOU LIKE ON THE TENTH OF NOVEMBER. I THINK THIS IS WHEN WE HIT ROCK BOTTOM. THIS IS WHEN I PULLED SOME OF THESE EMAILS AND TITLED IT "HATFIELD FLIPS OUT". I WROTE HIM A LETTER SAYING URGENT, CHECKING ASIMOV AWARD. I SAID THAT WE WERE HAVING TROUBLE FINDING THIS GUY THAT GAVE HIM THE ISAAC ASIMOV AWARD.

HE SAID WHAT YOU GOT WAS ALL I OVER GOT. A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, AN EMAIL AND THEN, SEVERAL WEEKS LATER, THE AWARD SHOWS UP. I'VE GOT AT LEAST TWO TO THREE OTHER AWARDS FROM SCI-FI APPRECIATIONS CLUBS. IT WAS NOT MY IDEA TO HAVE THIS AWARD MENTIONED IN THE BOOK. ST. MARTIN'S DID TO PROMOTE ME AS A BIOGRAPHER.

BUT GUESS WHAT, SANDER. I'M FRANKLY SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR EMOTIONAL ROLLER COASTER. EVERYTHING IS SOMETHING NEW WITH YOU. REACTIONS TO RUMORS, MORE EMAIL DISCLAIMERS. IF YOU'RE THIS DAMN NERVOUS BEFORE THE BOOK COMES OUT, THEN WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN IT'S PUBLISHED JANUARY AND THE BUSH'S GET REAL UGLY, EVEN UGLIER THAN BEFORE?"

PHILIP BRUCE>> IF THIS WERE A HOLLYWOOD FILM, THE LITTLE GUYS MIGHT HAVE WON AND LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER. THIS WAS NOT A STORY THAT HAD A HAPPY ENDING, WAS IT?

SUKI HAWLEY>> NO. IT HAD A PRETTY TRAGIC ENDING, UNFORTUNATELY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WE WON'T REVEAL THAT HERE, BUT IT WASN'T GOOD.

SUKI HAWLEY>> NO, AND THE ONLY THING ABOUT THAT WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DEFINITIVE ACTIONS. THAT BECAME A DEFINITIVE ENDING FOR THE FILM. YOU KNOW, NOTHING WAS HAPPENING DEFINITIVELY WITH THE BOOK, SO IT BECAME WHEN IS THIS GOING TO STOP AND IT EVENTUALLY DID STOP.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND GIVE ME THE THUMBNAIL OF JIM HATFIELD. WHAT KIND OF CHARACTER? HE SEEMS VERY VOLATILE IN YOUR FILM AND FROM LOOKING AT THE EPISODE WHERE SANDER HICKS IS READING THE EMAIL THAT HE GETS FROM JIM HATFIELD. HE SEEMS LIKE A LOOSE CANNON.

MICHAEL GALINSKY>> HE HAD A LOT OF HORNS AND A LOT OF HALOS. HE'S A REALLY INTERESTING CHARACTER. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE REVIEWS KIND OF POINT OUT THAT HE'S KIND OF STRAIGHT OUT OF ARTHUR MILLER. HE WAS VERY AMERICAN IN SOME WAYS, VERY DEEPLY AMERICAN, AND HAD LIKE A DESIRE TO HAVE THINGS AND STATUS. I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY KIND OF BROUGHT HIM DOWN IN THE END REALLY. IT REALLY WAS HARD FOR HIM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WHAT DOES THIS FILM AND THIS BOOK SAY ABOUT GEORGE W. BUSH? HOW DID HE COME OUT OF THIS THING?

SUKI HAWLEY>> THE BOOK IS SEPARATE FROM THE FILM. THE BOOK IS A GREAT COMPENDIUM OF ALL THE PUBLISHED INFORMATION ABOUT GEORGE W. BUSH THAT WAS OUT THERE. IT WAS BASICALLY A CLIP JOB AND --

PHILIP BRUCE>> -- BY THAT, YOU MEAN WHAT?

SUKI HAWLEY>> A CLIP JOB BEING THAT YOU COMPILE ALL OF THE KNOWN ARTICLES, THE INFORMATION ABOUT THE HISTORY OF BUSH'S LIFE IN ONE PLACE, IN THIS BOOK. THE FILM, ON THE OTHER HAND, DOESN'T ACTUALLY DEAL WITH THE FACTS OF GEORGE BUSH. IT DEALS WITH THE HUMAN RELATIONS BETWEEN THE PUBLISHER AND THE AUTHOR. BUSH IS IN THE FILM, BUT HE'S SORT OF A REMINDER IN THE BACKGROUND.

PHILIP BRUCE>> HE'S A SUPPORTING PLAYER. HE'S NOT THE STAR.

SUKI HAWLEY>> EXACTLY.

MICHAEL GALINSKY>> BUT IT'S INTERESTING. I WANT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION TOO BECAUSE ACTUALLY MANY PEOPLE WHO READ THE BOOK WHO DIDN'T LIKE BUSH END UP LIKING HIM A LOT MORE BECAUSE IT HUMANIZES HIM. HATFIELD IS VERY MUCH A FOLKSY WRITER, SO THERE IS A LOT OF STUFF ABOUT HIM THAT REALLY HUMANIZES THE MAN MUCH IN THE WAY THAT ALEXANDRA PELOSI'S FILM "JOURNEYS WITH GEORGE" DOES. YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOMEONE WHO'S NOT JUST THIS MEDIA CREATION. SO IN A LOT OF WAYS, PEOPLE WHO REALLY HATED HIM LIKE HIM A LOT MORE AFTERWARDS, BUT IT DOES HAVE SOME OF THE NEGATIVE STUFF ABOUT BUSH THAT WASN'T REALLY DISCUSSED BEFORE THE CAMPAIGN.

J.H. HATFIELD>> "THERE'S NOT A DAY GOES BY THAT I DON'T REGRET THIS BOOK. I WISH I WOULD NEVER, EVER, EVER HAVE SENT IN A PROPOSAL TO DO A BIOGRAPHY OF GEORGE W. BUSH. IT'S BEEN A NIGHTMARE. IT'S BEEN NOTHING BUT A NIGHTMARE. I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO TELL YOU HOW MUCH TROUBLE THIS BOOK HAS CAUSED ME."

VAL>> THE FILM HAS SOME SURPRISES. THE BIGGEST ONE MAY BE WHEN IT REVEALS THE SOURCE OF THE COCAINE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST GEORGE W. BUSH. WE WON'T SPOIL IT FOR YOU, BUT YOU CAN SEE IT FOR YOURSELF AT A THEATER NEAR YOU.

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VAL>> BLACK, BROWN, ASIAN OR WHITE. LOS ANGELES HAS HAD ITS SHARE OF RACIAL STRIFE, BUT SOME PEOPLE SAY IT'S TIME TO LOOK AT RACE RELATIONS THROUGH AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT LENS. THEY SAY THE FOCUS ON DISCRIMINATION IS MISPLACED AND PASSÉ AND THAT HATE CRIMES ARE OVER-EMPHASIZED AND THAT IT'S TIME TO FOCUS ON LARGER PROBLEMS LIKE JOBS AND EDUCATION. THIS IS THE MISSION OF A NEW ORGANIZATION CALLED "COMMUNITY ADVOCATES". IT'S HEADED UP BY DAVID LEHRER, FORMERLY WITH THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE, AND JOE HICKS WHO USED TO BE WITH THE LOS ANGELES HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION. I TALKED TO BOTH OF THEM AT CAFÉ PINOT'S IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES.

VAL>> SO, JOE HICKS AND DAVID LEHRER, YOU'VE STARTED A WHOLE NEW ORGANIZATION IN TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA TO LOOK AT RACE THROUGH A WHOLE DIFFERENT PRISM. WHAT IS THE NEW PRISM THAT YOU HOPE TO GET PEOPLE TO USE?

JOE HICKS>> WELL, THE NEW PRISM IS LOOKING AT RACE RELATIONS AS THEY ACTUALLY ARE TODAY. THERE'S BEEN AMAZING PROGRESS OVER THE LAST THIRTY YEARS WHEN ALL TOO MANY OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS AND HUMAN RELATIONS GROUPS ARE FOCUSING WHAT APPEARS TO BE ABOUT THIRTY YEARS AGO WHEN THIS NATION WAS IN FACT SUBMERGING IN RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION. THIRTY YEARS HAS MADE A LOT OF DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY WE RELATE TO EACH OTHER AS WELL AS LAWS THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS AND A PARADIGM THAT WE THINK HAS SHIFTED, YET THEIR FOCUS ON THE PROBLEM HAS NOT. THAT LEAVES A LOT LEFT TO BE DONE TODAY.

VAL>> SO THIRTY YEARS AGO, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT EXPLICIT DISCRIMINATION WHICH NO LONGER EXISTS, LIKE JIM CROWE.

DAVID LEHRER>> WELL, JIM CROWE WAS ALREADY WANING. THIRTY YEARS AGO, IT WAS MORE OR LESS GONE. BUT THERE WERE STILL PROBLEMS WITH SOCIAL CLUB DISCRIMINATION, THE NOTION OF VOTING FOR SOMEONE WHO WASN'T OF YOUR SAME RACE OR ETHNICITY WAS FAIRLY UNUSUAL, THERE WERE A HANDFUL OF MINORITIES ELECTED TO CONGRESS, STATE SENATE OR THE HOUSE IN CALIFORNIA. I MEAN, THINGS HAVE REALLY CHANGED. IN FACT, THE FEDERAL CIRCUIT COURT IN CALIFORNIA SAID THE RECORD OVER THE PREVIOUS DECADE SHOWS THE PEOPLE WILLING TO VOTE, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR LATINO CANDIDATES IF THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE THE RIGHT CANDIDATE. WHETHER THEY WERE LATINO AND THEY WEREN'T LATINO WAS REALLY AN IRRELEVANCY.

JOE HICKS>> THE NINTH CIRCUIT BEING THE MOST LIBERAL COURT IN CIRCUIT IN THE NATION, BY THE WAY.

DAVID LEHRER>> SO WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT, IF PEOPLE WANT TO FOCUS ON OLD PROBLEMS, THAT'S OKAY. THE PROBLEM IS, YOU'RE DIVERTING ENERGY AND RESOURCES FROM DEALING WITH REAL ISSUES THAT ARE THERE TODAY. IT'S ONE THING TO BE AGAINST HATE CRIMES, BUT THANK GOD, THE LAWS ARE ON THE BOOKS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TAKES THEM SERIOUSLY. HATE CRIMES ARE NOT THE PROBLEM THAT MOST STANDS IN THE WAY OF MINORITY GROUPS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. THERE AREA REAL ISSUES THAT, TO THE EXTENT WE FOCUS ON THE WRONG ISSUES, WERE BEING DIVERTED FROM DEALING WITH THE ISSUES THAT REALLY ARE UP FRONT WHICH TEND TO BE SOCIO-ECONOMICALLY BASED AND NOT RACE OR ETHNICITY BASED.

VAL>> HOW ABOUT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION? WHERE DOES AFFIRMATIVE ACTION FIT IN TO THIS SHIFT IN THE PARADIGM?

JOE HICKS>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE DEBATES WE NEED TO BE HAVING. I THINK WE MISSED ANOTHER MILESTONE. THE SUPREME COURT AND THE DEBATES AROUND IT, I THINK OFFERED ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY. FOR INSTANCE, SAY, WAIT A MINUTE. WHAT'S CHANGED IN THIRTY YEARS? WHAT'S CAUSING IN FACT THE NEED FOR AFFIRMATIVE ACTION?

VAL>> BECAUSE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION WAS INITIALLY ESTABLISHED TO FIGHT DISCRIMINATION AND NOW I UNDERSTAND IT'S BEING USED TO PROMOTE DIVERSITY. THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT SHIFT, ISN'T IT?

JOE HICKS>> WELL, JUSTICE O'CONNOR EXPLICITLY STATED IN HER RULING THAT IT WASN'T ABOUT DISCRIMINATION. SHE SAID IN FACT IT'S ABOUT DIVERSIFYING THE CLASSROOM. THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE AESTHETICS OF A CLASSROOM, THAT THERE IS SOME INHERENT VALUE TO HAVING BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IN A CLASSROOM, AND IT MAY BE. BUT CERTAINLY THAT'S A DIFFERENT ARGUMENT THAT YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN MAKING THIRTY YEARS AGO THAT PEOPLE WERE BEING KEPT FROM CLASSROOMS BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE.

DAVID LEHRER>> THE ISSUE THAT IS REALLY MORE TELLING IS THAT THIS ACHIEVEMENT GAP PERSISTS AFTER ABOUT THIRTY YEARS OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

VAL>> ACHIEVEMENT GAP IN SCHOOLS.

DAVID LEHRER>> IN SCHOOLS. THAT THERE IS REALLY A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF BLACKS AND LATINOS WHO WOULD HAVE QUALIFIED FOR ADMISSION TO THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN LAW SCHOOL STRICTLY ON THE NUMBERS. WHAT WE OUGHT TO BE LOOKING AT IS WHY DOES THAT ACHIEVEMENT GAP PERSIST WHEN DISCRIMINATION IS PROBABLY NOT THE CAUSE. JUSTICE O'CONNOR SAID AFFIRMATIVE ACTION OUGHT TO LAPSE AFTER THE NEXT TWENTY-FIVE YEARS. ARE WE GOING TO STILL HAVE THAT GAP? THAT'S REALLY, AT BASE, THE GUT ISSUE THAT WE HAVE KIND OF PAPERED OVER AND NOT REALLY LOOKED AT.

VAL>> SO YOU WANT TO BASICALLY REDRAW THE BATTLE LINES?

JOE HICKS>> WE DO, WE DO. WE WANT TO SAY, LISTEN, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR THIRTY YEARS. WE'RE IN A POST-CIVIL RIGHTS ERA. YOU KNOW, 1965 CAN BE VIEWED AS THE LAST YEAR, THE LAST MAJOR PIECE, OF CIVIL RIGHTS LEGISLATION PUT INTO PLACE. IT'S TIME TO ASSESS ALL OF THAT. AS LONG AS YOU'RE FOCUSING THIRTY YEARS AGO, YOU CAN'T ADDRESS THE THINGS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE. GANGS, VIOLENCE, HOUSEHOLDS OFTEN IN CASES ARE FATHERLESS. YOU KNOW, THE NEED FOR A REVITALIZED ECONOMIC BASE IN MANY COMMUNITIES. JOBS, POLITICAL INPUT, I MEAN, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT, BUT CERTAINLY RACISM AS IT WAS CLASSICALLY BELIEVED IS NOT WHAT IS AT THE ROOT OF MOST OF OUR PROBLEMS AS WE FACE THEM TODAY.

VAL>> YOU ALSO HAVE A DEFINITE COMMENT ON THE FOCUS ON REPORTS OF HATE CRIMES AND, YOU KNOW, THE HEADLINES THAT MAKE --

DAVID LEHRER>> -- WELL, WE THINK, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WAS A GOOD DEAL OF ATTENTION PAID IN THE WAKE OF THE OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM ABOUT THE ALLEGED WAVE OF BACKLASH HATE CRIMES AGAINST MUSLIM-AMERICANS. WELL, WE LOOKED AT THE DATA WITH THE FBI, WITH THE LOS ANGELES SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, WITH THE LAPD. THE FACT IS, MERCIFULLY AND THANK GOD, THERE WASN'T A WAVE OF BACKLASH HATE CRIMES AND AMERICANS REALLY DO GET IT. THEY GOT IT. THEY'RE NOT ANGRY AT THE IRAQI GROCER DOWN THE STREET. THEY'RE NOT ANGRY AT THE PAKISTANI CAB DRIVER. THEY'RE ANGRY AT SADDAM HUSSEIN.

IN A COUNTY OF NINE MILLION PEOPLE, THAT THERE WERE FIVE ALLEGED HATE CRIMES, ONE OF WHICH WAS A FELONY, AS TRAGIC AS THOSE CASES ARE, THE FACT IS, WITH NINE MILLION PEOPLE AND WE WERE AT WAR, JIHAD WAS DECLARED AGAINST US, WE DID PRETTY WELL. WE THINK THERE OUGHT TO BE AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THERE REALLY HAS BEEN THIS TRANSFORMATION AND LETS GET ABOUT RECOGNIZING THAT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT ATTITUDES, REINFORCING THOSE ATTITUDES AND BUILDING FROM THERE, NOT CONSTANTLY SUGGESTING THAT THERE IS THIS AQUIFER OF BIGOTRY UNDERNEATH THE SURFACE THAT'S JUST WAITING TO POP TO THE SURFACE. I DON'T THINK IT'S THERE.

VAL>> FINAL QUESTION. WHAT IS YOUR ORGANIZATION GOING TO DO TO MOVE THESE IDEAS FORWARD IN REAL LIFE?

JOE HICKS>> WELL, I THINK THE BATTLE, PRIMARILY, IS IN THE AREA OF IDEAS. HOW DO WE CHALLENGE PEOPLE TO TRY TO RETHINK THINGS IN NEW WAYS? AS MUCH AS WE CAN BRING TO THAT AGENDA, WE WILL. BUT BEYOND THIS, NEITHER ONE OF US ARE, YOU KNOW, IVORY TOWER KIND OF GENTLEMEN. YOU KNOW, WE'RE AT LARGE ACTIVISTS. SO WE'RE ALSO ENGAGING IN A LEADERSHIP TRAINING PROGRAM THAT TRIES TO CHALLENGE WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A LEADER IN THIS ERA? WE'RE ENGAGING IN A MAJOR CITYWIDE VOLUNTEER EFFORT THAT BRINGS PEOPLE THAT HAS THEM CROSS ALL KINDS OF LINES TO VOLUNTEER IN NEIGHBORHOODS ALL AROUND THE CITY. WE DO SOME MEDIA SEMINARS TO TRY TO EXPAND THE BILLY MEDIA TO GENERATE NEW STORIES AND TO MEET NEW LEADERS AND TO FIND NEW SOURCES BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T CONTINUE TO GO BACK TO THAT OLD ROLODEX AND INTERVIEW THE SAME FACES OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

WE WANT TO DO THINGS THAT REALLY DO KIND OF EXEMPLIFY HOW WE THINK ABOUT THESE ISSUES. WE ALSO WANT TO BRING IN AS MANY NEW SPEAKERS. WE'VE PARTNERED WITH TOWN HALL TO BRING IN NEW WRITERS WHO'VE CONTRIBUTED NEW WORKS AROUND RACE, ETHNICITY, WHATEVER, AND BRING THEM INTO THE LOS ANGELES AREA TO, AGAIN, SPICE UP THIS DISCUSSION THAT WE THINK HAS GOTTEN VERY STALE AND VERY OLD AND WE NEED TO BEGIN TO THINK SOME NEW THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS.

DAVID LEHRER>> I AGREE. I MEAN, WE'RE TRYING TO MELD THE REALM OF IDEAS, AN ON-THE-GROUND REAL PEOPLE-TO-PEOPLE KIND OF INTERACTION. IT'S A CHALLENGE, BUT I THINK WE'RE BEGINNING TO MAKE SOME PROGRESS.

VAL>> IT ALL STARTS WITH PEOPLES' PERCEPTIONS AND IDEAS ANYWAY. JOE HICKS, DAVID LEHRER, THANK YOU SO MUCH. BEST OF LUCK TO YOU.

JOE HICKS>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> AMONG ITS PROGRAMS, COMMUNITY ADVOCATES SPONSORS A VOLUNTEER DAY WHERE PEOPLE OF ALL RACES COME TOGETHER ON PROJECTS THAT IMPROVE THE COMMUNITY.

I'M VAL ZAVALA REPORTING FROM THE NORTH HOLLYWOOD SUBWAY STATION. FOR EVERYONE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

LIFE AND TIMES WAS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, GAYS WON A VICTORY IN THE SUPREME COURT. IS SAME SEX MARRIAGE NEXT?

>> IF WE DO HAVE A SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE WHICH OUR COUNTRY SAYS IT DOES, THERE SHOULD BE NO REASON FOR GAY MEN OR LESBIAN WOMEN TO BE DENIED THE LEGAL CEREMONY OF MARRIAGE.

VAL>> THAT'S MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES.