7/28/03

LC030728

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

THE CHINESE IMPORT THAT MAY BE KILLING AN AMERICAN INDUSTRY. IS CHEAP FURNITURE WORTH THE COST TO CALIFORNIA JOBS?

JOHN SANDBERG>> THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FIRST FOUR MONTHS OF 2002 AND THE FIRST FOUR MONTHS OF 2003, IMPORTS OF WOOD BEDROOMS FROM CHINA HAVE GONE UP SIXTY-SEVEN PERCENT.

VAL>> AND THEN, MASS TRANSIT FROM A BYGONE ERA. WE'LL GET A NEW LOOK AT WHY THE OLD RED CARS BIT THE DUST.

ALL THAT AND MORE STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF
THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> HELLO, I'M VAL ZAVALA. WE BEGIN WITH A STORY ABOUT A VANISHING FRONTIER IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, THE FURNITURE INDUSTRY. FOR YEARS, LOCAL FURNITURE MAKERS HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING TO HANG ON IN THE FACE OF RISING IMPORTS FROM OVERSEAS, BUT NOW A NEW GLUT OF INEXPENSIVE FURNITURE FROM CHINA COULD BE THE LAST NAIL IN THE INDUSTRY'S COFFIN. IT'S AMERICAN STYLE, BUT MADE BY CHINESE LABOR. PHILIP BRUCE TELLS US HOW ONE LOCAL BUSINESSMAN IS FIGHTING BACK.

PHILIP BRUCE>> JOHN SANDBERG HAS SPENT HIS LIFE IN THE FURNITURE BUSINESS. HE'S PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY HIS GREAT-GRANDFATHER FOUNDED EIGHTY-FIVE YEARS AGO. SANDBERG FURNITURE EMPLOYS FOUR HUNDRED PEOPLE IN ITS PLANT IN THE TOWN OF VERNON.

JOHN SANDBERG>> WE SPECIALIZE IN MAKING BEDROOM FURNITURE. THE IDEAL TARGET PRICE POINT FOR US IS ABOUT $999 AND UNDER FOR A SET, WHICH WOULD BE A DRESSER, A MIRROR, A BED AND TWO NIGHTSTANDS. OUR CUSTOMER BASE IS PRINCIPALLY WHAT I WOULD CALL A BLUE COLLAR WORKER. THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS THAT ARE DUAL-INCOME BLUE COLLAR WORKERS, SO THEIR HOUSEHOLD INCOME HAS GONE UP QUITE A BIT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE BUSINESS MAY APPEAR TO BE THRIVING, BUT SANDBERG'S COMPANY IS FACING A MAJOR CHALLENGE FROM HALFWAY AROUND THE WORLD, LOW-COST FURNITURE FROM CHINA THAT'S FLOODED THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA MARKET. THE RESULT? AMERICAN MANUFACTURERS SAY THEY CAN'T COMPETE. OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, SANDBERG HAS CUT HIS WORKFORCE BY TWENTY PERCENT.

JOHN SANDBERG>> WHILE IT WOULD BE CONVENIENT TO BLAME THE ECONOMY, THE ECONOMY HAS NOT DROPPED THAT SIGNIFICANTLY. YOU LOOK AT CHINESE IMPORTS SPECIFICALLY AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FIRST FOUR MONTHS OF 2002 AND THE FIRST FOUR MONTHS OF 2003, IMPORTS OF WOOD BEDROOMS FROM CHINA HAVE GONE UP SIXTY-SEVEN PERCENT IN JUST THAT SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, ONE YEAR LATER.

PHILIP BRUCE>> CHECK OUT THE ADS FOR SANDBERG'S BEDROOM SETS COMPARED WITH THE CHINESE-MADE PRODUCT. YOU MAY NOT SEE MUCH DIFFERENCE, BUT THERE'S A HUGE GAP WHEN IT COMES TO THE COST OF LABOR HERE VERSUS CHINA. SANDBERG SAYS HIS PEOPLE MAKE ABOUT NINE DOLLARS AN HOUR. WITH BENEFITS, THAT GOES UP TO THIRTEEN OR FOURTEEN DOLLARS. BUT HE SAYS CHINESE WORKERS MAKING THE SAME FURNITURE PRODUCTS AVERAGE ONLY THREE DOLLARS A DAY.

JACK KYSER>> THERE IS ALWAYS THE ISSUE OF CHEAPER LABOR, BUT NOW CHEAPER LABOR AND CHINA ARE SYNONYMOUS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> JACK KYSER IS CHIEF ECONOMIST FOR THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION.

JACK KYSER>> IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S COMING IN THROUGH THE LOCAL PORTS, YOU'LL SEE A VERY, VERY SIGNIFICANT DOLLAR VOLUME OF IMPORTED FURNITURE AND THIS IS TOUGH COMPETITION TO BEAT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> CONVENTIONAL WISDOM MIGHT SAY THAT THE COST OF SHIPPING FURNITURE TO THE U.S. OFFSETS WHAT CHINESE MANUFACTURERS SAVE ON LABOR, BUT JOHN SANDBERG SAYS THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

JOHN SANDBERG>> A CONTAINER HERE TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA PROBABLY RUNS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF $2,800 TO $3,000 AND, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A BEDROOM SET THAT IS MAYBE A $1,000 BEDROOM SET, YOU'RE GETTING ABOUT EIGHTEEN TO TWENTY OF THOSE ON A CONTAINER, YOU'RE COST IS ABOUT $100 TO $125 PER BEDROOM GROUP. SO IN THE LARGE SCHEME OF THINGS, THE LABOR SAVINGS ARE HUGE COMPARED TO THE FREIGHT COST AT ONLY $100 TO $125 OR PERHAPS AS MUCH AS $150, DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE SET.

PHILIP BRUCE>> SANDBERG IS NOW PART OF A COALITION OF AMERICAN MAKERS OF BEDROOM SETS. THAT GROUP ALLEGES THAT THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT HAS STACKED THE DECK BY KEEPING THE COST OF THE CHINESE-MADE FURNITURE ARTIFICIALLY LOW. THE AMERICANS BELIEVE THE CHINESE WANT TO DRIVE THEM OUT OF BUSINESS AND THE COALITION IS FILING A FEDERAL PETITION AIMED AT PREVENTING CHINA FROM GLUTTING THE U.S. WOOD FURNITURE MARKET.

JOHN SANDBERG>> WE FEEL IT'S IMPORTANT TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD. WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR A HANDOUT. WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR AN ADVANTAGE OVER ANY OF OUR COMPETITORS FROM ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. WE'RE SIMPLY LOOKING FOR A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

JACK KYSER>> IT ALL STARTS OUT WITH THE FACT THAT THE CHINESE CURRENCY IS PEGGED TO THE U.S. DOLLAR, SO EVERYBODY IS EXCITED THAT THE U.S. DOLLAR HAS EASED SOMEWHAT. BUT IF YOU'RE FACING CHINESE COMPETITION, IT DOESN'T HELP YOU. WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THAT THEY HAVE VERY, VERY LOW-COST LABOR AND SO THEY CAN ACTUALLY SELL THE PRODUCT HERE FOR WAY UNDER WHAT DOMESTIC FIRMS CAN PRODUCE IT AT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AMERICAN FURNITURE MAKERS HAVE NEVER BEEN A TIGHT-KNIT GROUP. THEY'RE KNOWN FOR THEIR INDEPENDENCE AND SOME AMERICAN COMPANIES ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF CHINA'S CHEAP LABOR THEMSELVES.

MARK POPEL>> THOUGH STILL NINETY PERCENT OF WHAT WE PRODUCED, WELL, THIS YEAR, IS GOING TO BE DONE RIGHT OUT OF OUR OWN FACTORY HERE. ABOUT TEN PERCENT WILL BE IMPORTED. LAST YEAR, THAT NUMBER WAS ONLY FIVE PERCENT AND VERY LIKELY IT WILL GO UP TO TWENTY PERCENT NEXT YEAR.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MARK POPEL ALSO GREW UP IN THE BUSINESS. HIS PARENTS OWNED A FURNITURE STORE. HE AND HIS BROTHER STARTED THEIR OWN COMPANY TWENTY YEARS AGO. TODAY THEIR SOUTH EL MONTE PLANT EMPLOYS SEVENTY WORKERS, BUT POPEL ALSO CONTRACTS WITH FOREIGN COMPANIES TO MAKE SOME OF HIS PRODUCTS. HE ADMITS HE DOESN'T LOVE DOING IT, BUT CALLS IT SURVIVAL IN A TOUGH MARKET.

MARK POPEL>> IT'S UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN EASY CHALLENGE. THE DOLLAR IS INVOLVED, THE LEVEL OF SUPERVISION OR, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE PUT OUR NAME AND STAMP ON SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WE LIKE TO KNOW THAT IT'S BEEN DONE PROPERLY AND YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GUARANTEE THAT, SO CONSISTENCY IS AN ISSUE. A MAJOR FACTOR FOR US AS WELL IS THAT WE'VE PRIDED OURSELVES ON BEING ABLE TO CHANGE THE PRODUCT AND GIVE THE CONSUMERS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT. OF COURSE, IN AN IMPORT ENVIRONMENT, YOU'RE MORE LIMITED TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET.

PHILIP BRUCE>> SO FAR, POPEL AND HIS BROTHER HAVEN'T LAID OFF ANY OF THEIR WORKERS AND THEY DON'T WANT TO, BUT THEY SAY THEY MAY HAVE TO.

MARK POPEL>> WE'VE GOT A LOT OF MONEY AND TIME INVESTED IN OUR OWN FACTORY AND OUR PEOPLE. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEVENTY PEOPLE THAT DEPEND ON US. WELL, SEVENTY EMPLOYEES AND, OF COURSE, ALL THEIR FAMILIES. SO IT'S NOT -- YOU KNOW, WE DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE JUST, YOU KNOW, CUTTING THE RUG OUT FROM UNDER THEM, SO TO SPEAK. IT'S NOT WHAT WE DO, BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT IT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MANY AMERICAN COMPANIES HAVE ACTUALLY CLOSED THEIR FACTORIES IN FAVOR OF CONTRACTING WITH THE CHINESE.

JOHN SANDBERG>> THEY THOUGHT IF THEY COULD REDUCE THEIR PRICE, THEY WOULD SELL MORE, BUT SUBSEQUENTLY EVERYONE JUST BEGAN DOING THE SAME THING AND JUST A HUGE AMOUNT OF OUR PRODUCT -- WHEN I SAY OUR, AS AN INDUSTRY -- THE PRODUCT IS NOW MADE IN CHINA AS A RESULT OF IT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT SANDBERG FURNITURE HAS NO PLANS TO JOIN THE CROWD. JOHN SANDBERG SAYS HE'LL STICK IT OUT HERE AND HOPE FOR THE BEST.

JOHN SANDBERG>> A LOT OF THE IMPORT PRODUCTS GENERALLY HAVE TO BE BROUGHT IN CONTAINERS. THEY TAKE A LONGER LEAD TIME AND THE QUALITY QUITE SIMPLY JUST ISN'T AS GOOD. THEY'VE IMPROVED THEIR QUALITY FROM WHERE THEY WERE JUST A FEW YEARS AGO, BUT YOU GET THINGS WHERE DRAWERS ARE OUT OF SQUARE AND THEREFORE THEY STICK.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT JACK KYSER SAYS THE PATH WON'T BE EASY FOR AMERICAN COMPANIES COMPETING WITH THE CHINESE.

JACK KYSER>> IT'S REALLY TOUGH. WE FIGURE THAT WE'VE LOST ABOUT 4,600 MANUFACTURING JOBS IN FURNITURE IN LOS ANGELES OVER ABOUT THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND IT'S NOT JUST THE FURNITURE BUSINESS. CHINA HAS BECOME A MAJOR FORCE IN VIRTUALLY ALL THE PRODUCTS THAT TYPICALLY HAVE BEEN MADE IN AMERICA.

JACK KYSER>> PROBABLY CHINA IS GOING TO BE THE BIG GAME FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. IF YOU'RE IN AN INDUSTRY, MANUFACTURING, YOU'VE GOT TO BE VERY, VERY CAUTIOUS. YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN CHINA.

VAL>> AS PHILIP REPORTED, LOCAL FURNITURE MAKERS HAVE FILED A FEDERAL PETITION TO PREVENT CHINA FROM DUMPING HUGE QUANTITIES OF CHEAP PRODUCTS ON THE CALIFORNIA MARKET. IF U.S. OFFICIALS GRANT THE REQUEST, CHINA'S MANUFACTURERS WOULD HAVE TO PAY A SIZABLE IMPORT FEE ON ALL THE FURNITURE PASSING THROUGH OUR LOCAL PORTS AND THAT WOULD MAKE LOCAL MANUFACTURERS VERY HAPPY.

KCET.ORG IS THE PLACE TO LOOK FOR THE VERY LATEST ON LIFE AND TIMES. YOU'LL FIND PREVIEWS OF UPCOMING STORIES, TRANSCRIPTS AND AUDIO OF PAST EPISODES AND LINKS TO SOME OF OUR MOST INTERESTING FEATURES. JUST GO TO KCET.ORG AND CLICK ON "LIFE AND TIMES".

VAL>> CAN HE SURVIVE? THAT'S THE QUESTION EVERYONE IS ASKING ABOUT GRAY DAVIS NOW THAT THE GOVERNOR FACES AN HISTORIC RECALL ELECTION IN OCTOBER. WILL DEMOCRATS CONTINUE TO RALLY AROUND OR WILL THEY BREAK RANKS AND RUN AGAINST HIM? WE ASKED POLITICAL ANALYST, SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE, USC PROFESSOR. SHE WEIGHED IN ON THIS AND OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE RECALL.

VAL>> CAN GRAY DAVIS SURVIVE?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> WHO KNOWS? I MEAN, THIS IS A QUESTION THAT'S NEVER HAD TO HAVE BEEN ASKED BEFORE, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF A RECALL ELECTION. I THINK HE CAN SURVIVE.

VAL>> WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR HIM TO SURVIVE?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> I THINK WHAT IT WOULD TAKE FOR HIM TO SURVIVE BESIDES ALL THE MONEY IN THE WESTERN WORLD TO BUY MEDIA BASICALLY IS IF THE VOTERS CONTINUE TO BUY THE NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING THAT HE HAS DONE SO WELL.

VAL>> BUT THE OTHER SIDE IS DOING NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> BUT IF HE CAN INCULCATE FEAR. IF HE CAN INCULCATE UNCERTAINTY IN THE ELECTORATE. THIS IS SORT OF LIKE AN INITIATIVE CAMPAIGN, AT LEAST THE FIRST QUESTION ON THE BALLOT, AND THE RULE OF THUMB HAS BEEN IN CALIFORNIA THAT WHEN IN DOUBT, CALIFORNIANS CAN VOTE NO.

VAL>> BUT YOU STILL THINK THAT DAVIS HAS A CHANCE TO PULL THIS OFF IF HE CAN -- ENOUGH FEAR ABOUT WHAT?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> WELL, THAT WHAT YOU WILL GET WILL BE WORSE. IT'S THE DEVIL THAT YOU KNOW IS BETTER THAN THE DEVIL THAT YOU DON'T KNOW. WHAT YOU GET IS WORSE THAN WHAT YOU HAVE. WHAT YOU GET, AND INTERESTINGLY LIKE THE LOWERED BOND RATING, WE ARE NOW ONE LEVEL ABOVE JUNK BONDS. THERE'S AN ARGUMENT THAT WILL HURT DAVIS? PERHAPS, BUT MAYBE IT MIGHT HELP IN THAT WALL STREET IS SO NERVOUS ABOUT WHAT IS ROILING IN THIS STATE. THEY'VE SAID, WHOA, GUYS, GET YOURSELF SETTLED. GET YOURSELF STABLE. AND CHANGING GOVERNORS AT THE SNAP OF OUR FINGERS DOESN'T PORTEND STABILITY.

VAL>> SO WHAT MIGHT THE REPUBLICAN CHOICES BE? THEY'RE LINING UP, BUT NOTHING OFFICIAL YET. I THINK WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HEAR REAL SOON.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> WELL, THEY HAVE TWO WEEKS OR SO IN WHICH TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO RUN AND FILE FOR THE BALLOT. BESIDES ANGELINE, YOU MEAN? (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) DECLARED.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> DECLARED SO FAR, OFFICIALLY DECLARED, ARE DARRELL ISSA, THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN WHO FUNDED THE SUCCESSFUL RECALL BALLOT CAMPAIGN, TO GET IT ON THE BALLOT. PETER CAMEJO WHO WAS THE GREEN PARTY NOMINEE FOR GOVERNOR IN THE 2002 ELECTION. AMONG THE OTHER NAMES, OF COURSE, ARE THE TERMINATOR, ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, AND, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO? IT'S SOUNDING A LITTLE LESS LIKELY THAN IT MIGHT HAVE A WEEK AGO, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW.

THE FORMER LOS ANGELES MAYOR, RICHARD RIORDAN, WHO HAS SAID THAT ARNOLD IS HIS FIRST CHOICE, BUT IF SCHWARZENEGGER DOESN'T RUN, HE MIGHT CONSIDER IT. YOU HAVE TOM MCCLINTOCK, STATE SENATOR TOM MCCLINTOCK. HE'S THE DARLING OF THE CONSERVATIVES. THAT COULD GET INTERESTING, PARTICULARLY IN A LARGE MULTI-CANDIDATE FIELD. ARIANNA HUFFINGTON'S NAME HAS BEEN FLOATED OUTSIDE THE REPUBLICAN --

VAL>> -- MIGHT THIS BE AN OPPORTUNITY -- OH, THAT'S YOUR DOG.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> THAT'S MY DOG. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER SHE'S FOR OR AGAINST ARIANNA, BUT SHE HAS JUST EXPRESSED AN OPINION (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, WHAT MIGHT THIS MEAN FOR THIRD PARTY CANDIDATES?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> FOR SOMEBODY LIKE PETER CAMEJO, WHO HAS A BASE, IT MIGHT MEAN THAT HE COULD COME CLOSE AND, IF THERE WERE ENOUGH CANDIDATES AND A SMALL ENOUGH TURNOUT AND HE GOT THE GREEN PARTY ACTIVATED, WE MIGHT BE LOOKING AT A GOVERNOR CAMEJO. IT'S AN OUTSIDE CHANCE, BUT IT'S A CHANCE.

VAL>> IT'S AN UNUSUAL SITUATION THAT YOU DON'T NEED AS MANY VOTERS --

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> -- EXACTLY. ALL YOU NEED IS A PLURALITY OF THE VOTE TO WIN THIS ELECTION. IT'S NOT A PRIMARY. THERE IS NO RUNOFF.

VAL>> WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE STRATEGY OF CAMPAIGNING AGAINST THE COST OF THE ELECTION? THIRTY-FIVE MILLION DOLLARS! DON'T ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THE COST IS GOING TO GET US EVEN MORE INTO DEBT!

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> WELL, IT'S A BRAVE STRATEGY THREE MONTHS AGO WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE USED IT. THAT QUESTION IS NOW MOOT. IT'S ON THE BALLOT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND THAT MONEY. NOW WAS NOT THE TIME TO RAISE THAT ISSUE. HE SHOULD HAVE RAISED IT EARLY ON AND IT IS A POTENT ARGUMENT, BUT IT'S TOO LATE. IT'S A MOOT QUESTION.

VAL>> DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S BEEN CALLED A POWER GRAB ON THE PART OF THE REPUBLICANS.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> WELL, YOU KNOW, --

VAL>> -- WHAT ISN'T IN POLITICS, RIGHT? (LAUGHTER)

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> GEE, WHAT A CONCEPT! AND THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NEVER, NEVER, EVER HAD A POWER GRAB IN PLAY, HAVE THEY? (LAUGHTER)

VAL>> DO YOU THINK THE DEMOCRATS WILL REALLY KEEP THEIR WAGONS CIRCLED TIGHTLY OR WILL SOMEBODY BREAK AND RUN AGAINST DAVIS?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, VAL. I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION, BUT I DO KNOW IF SOMEONE BREAKS AND THROWS HIS OR HER HAT IN THE DEMOCRATIC RING, EVERYBODY ELSE WILL BE VERY CLOSELY BEHIND.

VAL>> JUST LIKE A LEAK IN THE DAM. ONE DROP GETS THROUGH --

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> -- EXACTLY. FIRST ONE, THEN ALL OF THEM. THAT'S ONE REASON WHY I THINK IT MAY WELL BE POSSIBLE THAT THEY CONTINUE TO HANG TOUGH. WHY? DO YOU THINK ANY ONE OF THEM WANTS TO BE SADDLED WITH THE MESS THAT GRAY DAVIS IS SADDLED WITH? AND IT WILL HAPPEN. THERE'S NO WAY OUT OF IT. BETTER YET, THEY MAY BE THINKING THAT SOME HAPLESS REPUBLICAN STAGGERS BLOODIED INTO THE ARENA IN 2006. THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE STATE STILL FAVOR THE DEMOCRATS AND THEY COME IN CLEAN AS THE NEW-DRIVEN SNOW. WE ARE NOT A PART OF THE PROBLEM. WE WERE NOT GOVERNOR.

VAL>> WHY DO YOU THINK THIS STORY HAS GOTTEN SUCH AMAZING NATIONAL ATTENTION?

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> WELL, I THINK THE MAJOR REASON IS ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, QUITE FRANKLY. THE NATIONAL MEDIA AND THE INTERNATIONAL MEDIA ARE ENTRANCED WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF ANOTHER ACTOR IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IN CALIFORNIA. ANOTHER REASON IS, PARTICULARLY THE NATIONAL MEDIA AND THE INTERNATIONAL MEDIA LOVE IT WHEN CALIFORNIA DOES SOMETHING GOOFY AND THEY ARE HAVING A BALL. WHAT IS THIS? HE WAS JUST ELECTED EIGHT MONTHS AGO. ISN'T THIS HYSTERICAL? CALIFORNIA IS DOING IT AGAIN. THEY'VE GONE BONKERS.

THOSE ARE TWO OF THE REASONS, BUT THE MORE SERIOUS REASONS AND THE REASONS THAT MANY OF THE NATIONAL REPORTERS AND CERTAINLY MOST OF THE STATE REPORTERS ARE LOOKING AT THIS ARE, ONE, WE ARE IN A DIRE FISCAL CRISIS AND WE ARE THE LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE NATION, OTHER THAN THE FEDERAL. WE ARE THE FIFTH LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD. WHAT HITS US ECONOMICALLY RIPPLES NOT ONLY THROUGHOUT THE NATION, BUT THROUGHOUT INTERNATIONAL TRADE, INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS. WE ARE, QUITE FRANKLY, THE STATE WHERE TRENDS BEGIN FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE. AND ALTHOUGH THERE ARE ONLY EIGHTEEN STATES THAT HAVE A PROVISION TO RECALL GOVERNORS, THE TECHNIQUE IS BEING LOOKED AT NERVOUSLY BY GOVERNORS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

VAL>> SHERRY, ALWAYS WONDERFUL TALKING WITH YOU.

SHERRY BEBITCH JEFFE>> MY PLEASURE, VAL. WELCOME TO MY HOME.

VAL>> IT'S WONDERFUL AND MEETING YOUR DOG WAS WONDERFUL.

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

VAL>> PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN AGE HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF LOS ANGELES'S FIRST MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM, THE OLD RED CARS. THEY WERE A FIXTURE FOR THE LAST HALF OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, BUT THEN THEY BIT THE DUST AS COMMUTERS MOVED TO THE CARS AND BUSES. BUT FOR YEARS, THERE'S BEEN TALK THAT THE RED CARS FELL VICTIM TO A CONSPIRACY, BUT A NEW DOCUMENTARY SAYS THAT'S JUST AN URBAN MYTH THAT WON'T FADE AWAY. PHILIP BRUCE TAKES A LOOK AT THE FILM THAT CLAIMS TO TELL THE REAL STORY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WHEN THOM EBERHARDT AND HIS WIFE, CHRISTINE VASQUEZ, SET OUT TO MAKE A FILM ABOUT LOS ANGELES'S LEGENDARY RED CARS, THEY WERE THINKING ABOUT A TRIP DOWN MEMORY LANE AND, TO SOME DEGREE, THAT'S WHAT THEIR DOCUMENTARY IS, AN INTRIGUING LOOK AT THE GLORY DAYS OF MASS TRANSIT IN LOS ANGELES. THE FILM, "THIS WAS PACIFIC ELECTRIC", SHOWS HOW THE RAIL LINE BY THE SAME NAME HELPED TRANSFORM THE WIDE OPEN SPACES OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AND IT HAPPENED JUST BY OFFERING A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THE HORSE AND BUGGY.

NARRATOR>> "THE FIRST PACIFIC ELECTRIC LINE OPENED ON FRIDAY, JULY 4, 1902. THE INTERURBAN CARS BEGAN RUNNING AT SIX A.M., ONE EVERY FIFTEEN MINUTES. TOTAL TRAVEL TIME FROM DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES TO THE SALT SPRAY OF OCEAN BOULEVARD IN LONG BEACH? FIFTY MINUTES. BY DAY'S END, 30,000 PEOPLE HAD INUNDATED THE TINY BEACH TOWN. IN THE COMING DECADE, LONG BEACH WOULD SEE ITS POPULATION INCREASE BY 610 PERCENT, MAKING IT THE FASTEST-GROWING CITY IN THE NATION."

PHILIP BRUCE>> FROM THAT POINT ON, THE RED CARS WERE PART OF THE LOCAL LANDSCAPE AND THE FILMMAKERS HAVE TAPPED THE MEMORIES OF SCORES OF FORMER RIDERS SUCH AS GENEVIEVE FISHER OF GLENDALE AND HER SISTER, ANN, WHO BOTH RECALL HOW THE RED CARS WERE WOVEN INTO THE FABRIC OF THEIR LIVES.

GENEVIEVE FISHER>> OH, I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU ANOTHER THING ABOUT THE RED STREETCAR. MY VERY FIRST DATE, I WAS ABOUT THIRTEEN YEARS OLD, TO THE DRUGSTORE AND WE HAD AN ICE CREAM SODA AND WE CAME BACK ON THE STREETCAR. THAT WAS MY FIRST DATE (LAUGHTER).

ANN>> I KNEW THE CONDUCTOR ON THE STREETCAR AND I'D GET ON IT AND RIDE FOR FREE AND RIDE ALL THE WAY INTO LOS ANGELES. THEN THEY'D TURN AROUND AND I'D RIDE IT BACK HOME FOR FREE (LAUGHTER).

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT JUST AS COMPELLING AS THE HISTORY OF THE RED CARS IS THE STORY OF HOW THEY WOUND UP ON THE SCRAP HEAP. POPULAR URBAN LEGEND HAS IT THAT THEY DIED AS A RESULT OF A CONSPIRACY BETWEEN GENERAL MOTORS AND HALF A DOZEN OTHER BIG COMPANIES, ALL WITH A VESTED INTEREST IN KILLING MASS TRANSIT TO SELL BUSES AND CARS.

THOM EBERHARDT>> THE CONSPIRACY THEORY IS THAT SOMETIME IN THE PAST, NOBODY CAN SAY EXACTLY WHEN, BUT IT'S GENERALLY PEGGED AS SOMETIME IN THE EARLY 1950'S, GENERAL MOTORS ALONG WITH FIRESTONE TIRE AND, DEPENDING ON WHO YOU'RE LISTENING TO, EITHER STANDARD OIL OR PHILLIPS 66 PETROLEUM, GOT TOGETHER, FORMED A CONSORTIUM TO START BUYING UP RAIL COMPANIES THAT WERE RUNNING TRANSIT LINES IN CITIES AROUND AMERICA AND THEN STARTED SYSTEMATICALLY, ONCE THEY WERE PARTNERED INTO THOSE COMPANIES, GETTING RID OF THE TROLLEY CAR LINES AND REPLACING THEM WITH BUSES RUNNING ON THE STREETS. GENERAL MOTORS BUSES RUNNING ON FIRESTONE TIRES BURNING, DEPENDING ON WHO YOU TALK TO, EITHER PHILLIPS 66 OR STANDARD OIL, AND THAT'S THE CONSPIRACY THEORY. WE'VE GOT THOSE GUYS TO BLAME.

NARRATOR>> "ONCE UPON A TIME, THE RED CARS RAN UP AND DOWN THE TREE-LINED STREETS OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. EVERYONE LOVED THE RED CARS. THEIR FREQUENT, CONVENIENT AND VERY FRIENDLY SERVICE, EVERYONE RODE THEM EVERYWHERE. ALL WAS GOOD IN THOSE GOLDEN PRE-SMOG YEARS, BUT SNEAKY CORPORATIONS LED BY NO LESS THAN GENERAL MOTORS, GANGED UP TO ELIMINATE THE FRIENDLY RED CARS. THEY WANTED PEOPLE TO USE TIRES AND PETROLEUM AND, MOST IMPORTANT, GENERAL MOTORS BUSES."

>> "BUSES ARE CLEAN, COMFORTABLE AND ATTRACTIVELY MODERN WITH SUCH FEATURES AS THE ULTRA-SMART NEW INTERIORS."

THOM EBERHARDT>> AND THE NICE THING ABOUT THE CONSPIRACY THEORY IS IT GIVES YOU ONE SIMPLE THE-GUY-YOU-LOVE-TO-HATE TARGET AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT ANYMORE. BUT IT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE, SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MAKE NO MISTAKE, FEDERAL AUTHORITIES DID PROSECUTE THOSE BIG CORPORATIONS BACK IN THE MID-1940'S FOR ALLEGEDLY WORKING TO SPEED UP THE RED CARS' DEMISE, BUT MOST HISTORIANS SAY THE CONSPIRACY HAD A LOT LESS TO DO WITH THE RAIL LINE'S DEATH THAN SIMPLE MONEY PROBLEMS. PACIFIC ELECTRIC WAS DEEPLY IN DEBT. THE RED CARS HAD BEEN LOSING MONEY SINCE THE 1930'S AND THE COMPANY WAS BURDENED BY THE HUGE EXPENSE OF HAVING TO MAINTAIN THE STREETS WHERE ITS RAIL LINES RAN. EBERHARDT AND VASQUEZ SAY THOSE FACTS ARE SUPPORTED BY PEOPLE WHO KNEW THE RED CARS FIRSTHAND.

THOM EBERHARDT>> YOU WON'T FIND ONE OF THEM THAT WILL TELL YOU THAT THE GENERAL MOTORS CONSPIRACY THEORY HOLDS AIR AT ALL. IT'S WEIRD. YOU WOULD THINK THAT THOSE GUYS AMONGST ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHERE THAT SYSTEM IS SO BELOVED AND THE MEMORY OF THAT SYSTEM IS SO BELOVED, THEY WOULD BE LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY TO BLAME FOR ITS DEMISE. YOU'LL FIND AMONGST THOSE PEOPLE THAT THEY DON'T POINT AT GENERAL MOTORS OR FIRESTONE TIRE OR PHILLIPS 66 PETROLEUM OR ALL OF THAT GANG THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE GOTTEN RID OF THE SYSTEM.

CHRISTINE VASQUEZ>> AND THEY'RE NOT ONLY UPSET. THEY ARE REALLY GREAT HISTORIANS. WE INTERVIEWED SOME, BUT MET MANY AND, ALMOST WITHOUT EXCEPTION, THESE PEOPLE STUDY THE HISTORY OF, I'M SURE, OTHER RAILS, BUT RED CAR WAS OUR SUBJECT. THEY REALLY POSSESS A WORLD OF KNOWLEDGE.

NARRATOR>> "YOU CAN STILL SEE TRACES OF IT TODAY LIKE DINOSAUR BONES FROM NEWPORT BEACH TO WATTS, FROM SANTA MONICA TO SAN BERNARDINO, AND WITH BITS AND PIECES SCATTERED EVERYWHERE IN BETWEEN. REMNANTS OF A RAIL SYSTEM THAT ONCE BOASTED 2,700 SCHEDULED TRAINS A DAY. NOW IT EXISTS ONLY IN PHOTOGRAPHS AND A FEW HUNDRED FEET OF HOME MOVIES. THIS IS THE STORY OF THE PACIFIC ELECTRIC. WHAT HAPPENED TO IT AND WHAT HAPPENED TO US."

CHRISTINE VASQUEZ>> ALL THESE MEMORIES, EVERYBODY HAS MOSTLY GREAT MEMORIES. ONE OR TWO SAD MEMORIES, BUT MOSTLY FUN, NOSTALGIC MEMORIES.

THOM EBERHARDT>> THEY WON'T TALK ABOUT THE PACIFIC. YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT ANYBODY WHO WAS ACTUALLY THERE AT THAT TIME WITHOUT ALSO HEARING ABOUT GOING SHOPPING AT BULLOCKS DOWNTOWN, ABOUT GOING TO CLIFTON'S CAFETERIA, ABOUT RIDING IT OUT TO THE PIKE, OR EVEN SOME OF THE OLDER PEOPLE OUT TO THE OSTRICH FARM. IT'S ALL PART AND PARCEL OF THE SAME THING. IT'S JUST A PIECE OF HISTORY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

VAL>> THE TWO FILMMAKERS SAID THEY ENJOYED TAKING ON THE CONSPIRACY THEORY, BUT MOSTLY THEY ENJOYED CREATING A LASTING ORAL HISTORY OF THE RED CARS TOLD BY THE PEOPLE WHO RODE THEM.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM. I'M VAL ZAVALA. FOR EVERYONE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

LIFE AND TIMES WAS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF
THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, HE MADE MILLIONS BY SELLING EVERYTHING FOR 99 CENTS. NOW WHAT DOES HE THINK ABOUT CALIFORNIA'S TROUBLED ECONOMY?

>> MANY, MANY, MANY CONSERVATIVE PEOPLE GO OUT THERE AND THEY WASTE AS MUCH MONEY AS EVERYBODY ELSE, BUT EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW THE OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD BE AND NOT HOW THEY SHOULD DO IT THEMSELVES.

VAL>> THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES.