7/29/03

LC030729

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

HE TURNED 99-CENTS STORES INTO MILLIONS, SO WHAT DOES HE THINK OF CALIFORNIA'S CURRENT ECONOMY?

DAVID GOLD>> MANY, MANY, MANY CONSERVATIVE PEOPLE GO OUT THERE AND THEY WASTE AS MUCH MONEY AS EVERYBODY ELSE, BUT EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW THE OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD DO IT, NOT HOW THEY SHOULD DO IT THEMSELVES.

VAL>> AND THEN, THE OFF-SCREEN LIFE OF ACTRESS KATHARINE HEPBURN. WE'LL TALK TO HEPBURN'S BIOGRAPHER WHO WAS ALSO A CLOSE PERSONAL FRIEND.

ALL THAT AND MORE STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF
THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> HELLO, I'M VAL ZAVALA REPORTING FROM DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES. WE'RE BEGINNING WITH THE STORY OF A MAN WHO CLEARLY KNOWS THE VALUE OF A DOLLAR. HIS 99-CENT STORES HAVE BEEN A FIXTURE ACROSS SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AND THEY'VE MADE HIM VERY RICH, BUT YOU'D NEVER KNOW IT BY THE WAY HE LIVES. SO WHAT DOES THIS SELF-MADE MILLIONAIRE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT CALIFORNIA'S MONEY PROBLEMS? WE FIND OUT AS TONI GUINYARD VISITS WITH THE MERCHANT WHO MADE A FORTUNE BY GIVING HIS CUSTOMERS A BARGAIN.

>> "SIX-OUNCE CUPS FOR ONLY 99 CENTS. THAT'S RIGHT. THREE CUPS FOR ONLY 99 CENTS. WHAT AN UNBELIEVABLE DEAL."

TONI GUINYARD>> IT STARTED WITH A SIMPLE IDEA. OPEN A STORE AND SELL EVERYTHING FOR UNDER A DOLLAR. THE IDEA WAS A SUCCESS. 99-CENTS ONLY STORES HAVE BECOME THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY VERSION OF THE FIVE-AND-DIME WITH A TWIST. NAME BRAND ITEMS MAKE UP THE MAJORITY OF THE STOCK AND NOTHING IN THE STORES COST MORE THAN 99 CENTS. THE COMBINATION OF COLORFUL DISPLAYS, BARGAIN PRICES AND FAMILIAR BRANDS HAS PROVEN TO BE AN ATTRACTIVE LURE FOR SHOPPERS DURING TOUGH ECONOMIC TIMES.

DAHLIA RAMO>> WELL, MY HUSBAND AND I ARE RETIRED. WE'RE ON A FIXED INCOME, SO I'M VERY COGNIZANT OF PRICES, EVEN MORE SO. I HAVE EIGHT GRANDCHILDREN THAT VISIT ME ALL THE TIME AND I BUY BABY WIPES, I BUY EVERYTHING. IF I GO TO THE STORES IN MY AREA, I'M PAYING THREE, FOUR OR FIVE DOLLARS FOR ONE ITEM THAT I CAN GET HERE FOR 99 CENTS.

DAVID GOLD>> NOTHING IS A BARGAIN UNLESS IT HAS QUALITY, NOTHING IS A BARGAIN. SO IF YOU PUT SOMETHING OUT FOR FIVE FOR 99 CENTS, IF IT'S NOT QUALITY, IT'S WORTHLESS.

TONI GUINYARD>> DAVID GOLD IS FOUNDER AND CEO OF THE 99-CENTS ONLY STORES. HE'S CREDITED WITH PIONEERING THE SINGLE-PRICE STORE CONCEPT, AN IDEA SAVING CUSTOMERS MONEY AND LANDING HIM ON A SPOT OF THE 2002 FORBES 400 LIST OF RICHEST AMERICANS.

TONI GUINYARD>> THIS IDEA HAS MADE YOU ESSENTIALLY A VERY RICH MAN.

DAVID GOLD>> WELL, YOU'RE RICH IF YOU HAVE A GOOD FAMILY. WE BASICALLY LIVE IN THE SAME HOUSE. WE DO NOT DRIVE EXPENSIVE CARS. WE'RE FORTUNATE THAT EVERYBODY IN THE COMPANY DOES HAVE STOCK OPTIONS, EVEN THE PEOPLE THAT BAG THE GROCERY ITEMS OR STOCK THE SHELVES OR IF THEY DRIVE THE TRUCK. THEY ALL HAVE STOCK OPTIONS.

TONI GUINYARD>> IN HIS WORLD, SUCCESS MEANS BUYING ITEMS AT A BARGAIN PRICE AND PASSING ON THE SAVINGS. THE CHALLENGE? GETTING SHOPPERS TO BELIEVE THAT, JUST BECAUSE THE MERCHANDISE IS INEXPENSIVE, DOESN'T MEAN IT'S CHEAPLY MADE.

DAVID GOLD>> THERE'S PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE THAT THE MORE YOU PAY FOR SOMETHING, IT'S NECESSARILY BETTER. SOMETIMES IT'S TRUE, BUT IN MOST CASES IT ISN'T.

MARINA APODACA>> THEY SEEM TO THINK THEY'RE BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE, I THINK (LAUGHTER). I HAVE A NEPHEW THAT THINKS EXACTLY LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW. HE SAYS I WOULDN'T BE SEEN IN A STORE LIKE THAT. HE SAYS I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO THINK I CAN'T AFFORD ANYTHING BETTER THAN 99 CENTS, AND I DON'T FEEL THAT WAY. I'M VERY DIFFERENT. I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY AND, IF I HAD IT, I STILL WOULD NOT PAY MORE MONEY FOR IT IF I COULD GET IT FOR THIS.

TONI GUINYARD>> BARGAIN HUNTERS SAY THE ECONOMY AND THEIR BUDGETS PLAY INTO THEIR DECISIONS TO SHOP HERE. CONSIDER THIS: THE AVERAGE SHOPPER SPENDS JUST OVER NINE DOLLARS EVERY TIME THEY VISIT.

MEL STRAUSS>> IN THIS STORE, YOU CAN JUST GO AROUND, YOU CAN FIND THINGS THAT YOU WOULD NEVER BUY OR YOU'D NEVER LEAVE YOUR HOUSE TO BUY. I CAN TALK TO PEOPLE AT THAT STAND AND THEY'D SAY THE SAME THING. THEY'LL SAY I CAME IN TO SPEND A COUPLE OF DOLLARS TO GET TWO ITEMS, BUT BECAUSE IT IS A DOLLAR, YOU HAVE A TENDENCY TO GO ON AND ON.

TONI GUINYARD>> WITH MORE THAN 160 STORES IN CALIFORNIA, ARIZONA, NEVADA AND TEXAS, THE SMALL SALES ADD UP. EACH STORE AVERAGES MORE THAN FOUR MILLION DOLLARS IN SALES EACH YEAR AND, WITH AN INCREASING NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS ON TIGHT BUDGETS, THE COMPANY'S GROWTH HAS IN MANY WAYS BECOME A BAROMETER OF ECONOMIC TIMES.

DAVID GOLD>> WHEN WE FIRST STARTED OUT IN 1982, THERE WAS AROUND FIFTEEN OR SIXTEEN PERCENT AS THE PRIME RATE AND THE ECONOMY WAS REALLY BAD, BUT INFLATION WAS TREMENDOUS. WHAT HAPPENED, WE DID GOOD IN THOSE TIMES. THEN WHEN THE ECONOMY GOT GOOD, WE DID GOOD IN THOSE TIMES. WE ALSO DID GOOD IN RECESSION. WE'RE KIND OF RECESSION-PROOF.

TONI GUINYARD>> THE COMPANY OFTEN RELIES ON SUCCESSES AND MISTAKES OF OTHER BUSINESSES.

DAVID GOLD>> IN THE BAD TIMES, THEY JUST WANT TO TURN OVER THAT MERCHANDISE AND GET RID OF IT. AND IN GOOD TIMES, THEY'RE MAKING SO MUCH MONEY, THEY LIKE TO GIVE GOOD VALUES JUST TO GET RID OF SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO HANDLE ANYMORE.

RACHEL JACOBS>> FROM WORKING AT THE COMPANY, THE TYPE OF PRODUCTS THAT CONSTANTLY ARE CHANGING, PACKAGING, SIZES, CUSTOMERS THAT BUY TOO MUCH AND THE MANUFACTURER HAS TO TAKE THE PRODUCT BACK. THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF THIS GOING ON ON A DAILY BASIS AND THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE PRODUCT. SO THEY EITHER HAVE TO DISPOSE OF IT, DONATE IT OR THEY CAN SELL IT TO US AND AT LEAST RECOUP A PORTION OF THEIR COST, SO MANY COMPANIES CHOOSE TO SELL IT TO US.

TONI GUINYARD>> AND IN TURN, THOSE PRODUCTS ARE SOLD TO YOU. WHAT MAY NOT SELL WELL AT A REGULAR MARKET CAN USUALLY SELL HERE AT A DEEPLY DISCOUNTED PRICE. THE COMPANY EXPANDED IN-STORE STOCK TO INCLUDE BRIDAL AND GOURMET FOOD SECTIONS, BUT SOME ITEMS FOUND IN ONE STORE MAY NOT BE STOCKED IN ANOTHER.

ALBERT LEE>> WHAT WE TRY TO IS TRY TO GIVE A LOT OF LATITUDE TO THE MANAGERS TO BE ABLE TO SELECT THOSE KEY PRODUCTS THAT THEY THINK WOULD BE MOST EFFECTIVE IN THOSE STORES. IF IT'S, SAY, A MORE ETHNIC COMMUNITY, THEN WE WANT TO HAVE MORE ETHNICS PRODUCTS IN THAT PARTICULAR STORE, SO THAT WAY WE ARE CATERING TO THAT SPECIFIC COMMUNITY.

TONI GUINYARD>> BUYERS ARE GIVEN FLEXIBILITY IN PURCHASING WHAT THEY BELIEVE THE CUSTOMER WANTS.

RACHEL JACOBS>> ONE OF THE REALLY GOOD DEALS WE GOT WAS A HUNDRED TRUCKS OF MINUTE-MAID DISNEY EXTREME COOLERS AND THEY ARE 64-OUNCE JUICES, ALL DIFFERENT FLAVORS, AND THE DISNEY LICENSE IN THAT ITEM DID NOT PERFORM THAT WELL, SO THEY HAD A TON OF OVERSTOCK OF THIS PRODUCT, SO WE BOUGHT EVERYTHING THEY HAD BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BE DISCONTINUING THAT PRODUCT.

TONI GUINYARD>> SOMETIMES MISTAKES ARE MADE.

DAVID GOLD>> IF THEY DON'T MAKE MISTAKES, THEY WON'T TAKE CHANCES AND, IN MOST CASES, WE DON'T.

TONI GUINYARD>> GOLD MAKES A POINT OF NOT WASTING MONEY. THE COMPANY HEADQUARTERS IS LOCATED NEXT TO THE COMPANY WAREHOUSE IN AN INDUSTRIAL AREA IN THE CITY OF COMMERCE. WHEN ASKED ABOUT THE ECONOMIC CLIMATE IN CALIFORNIA, GOLD QUICKLY APPLIES HIS NO-FRILLS BUSINESS PHILOSOPHY.

DAVID GOLD>> I THINK WE HAVE A DESPERATE SITUATION IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, BUT I THINK THEY GOT TO PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH. JUST BECAUSE THEY PRACTICE, THEY GOT TO WATCH SPENDING. THEY GOT TO WATCH SPENDING. THEY GOT TO SET THE EXAMPLE. IN OUR COMPANY, WE HOPE WE SET THE EXAMPLE. NO ONE HAS A SECRETARY, NO ONE HAS A PRIVATE PARKING SPACE AND WE'RE ALL THE SAME.

TONI GUINYARD>> THIS FROM A MAN WHO HAS MADE MILLIONS FROM THE PENNIES SPENT BY 99-CENT ONLY STORE CUSTOMERS.

DAVID GOLD>> I THINK WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU ATTAIN A LOT OF MONEY AND YOU CHANGE YOUR LIFE, THEY SAY THE MONEY AFFECTS YOU. AND IF IT DOESN'T CHANGE YOUR LIFE, THEY CALL YOU A SCHMO, SO THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT I AM. BUT BASICALLY WE JUST CONSERVE WHAT WE DO. 99 THANKS (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> IF YOU WONDER WHETHER THE WELL-TO-DO EVER SHOP AT 99-CENT STORES, JUST SIT OUTSIDE ONE AND WATCH THE STEADY STREAM OF LUXURY CARS THAT STOP OUT FRONT. IN FACT, THE MOST PROFITABLE LOCATION IN THE 99-CENT STORE CHAIN IS THE ONE NEAR BEVERLY HILLS.

KCET.ORG IS THE PLACE TO LOOK FOR THE VERY LATEST ON LIFE AND TIMES. YOU'LL FIND PREVIEWS OF UPCOMING STORIES, TRANSCRIPTS AND AUDIO OF PAST EPISODES AND LINKS TO SOME OF OUR MOST INTERESTING FEATURES. JUST GO TO KCET.ORG AND CLICK ON "LIFE AND TIMES".

VAL>> HIS PEN IS AS SHARP AS ANY SWORD AND MICHAEL RAMIREZ ISN'T AFRAID TO USE IT. HE'S THE EDITORIAL ARTIST FOR THE LOS ANGELES TIMES, THE MAN WHO DRAWS THOSE POLITICAL CARTOONS THAT SOME OF YOU LOVE TO HATE. BUT RAMIREZ RECENTLY MET HIS MATCH WHEN ONE OF HIS DRAWINGS DREW THE ATTENTION OF THE SECRET SERVICE. WHAT DID HE DO AND WHY DID A G-MAN COME CALLING? THAT'S WHAT PHILIP BRUCE TELLS US AS HE AND MICHAEL RAMIREZ GO ONE-ON-ONE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> SO, MICHAEL, HOW IS IT THAT A G-MAN COMES CALLING?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> (LAUGHTER) WELL, I'M USED TO IT. YOU KNOW, I HAVE THE CIA AND THE FBI FOLLOWING ME AROUND, THE A.S.P.C.A. AND THE N.O.W., NAACP. THEY ALL FOLLOW ME ON A REGULAR BASIS (LAUGHTER).

PHILIP BRUCE>> FOR THE FEW PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW HOW THIS ALL STARTED, TELL ME WHAT WAS THE REASON THAT THE SECRET SERVICE GOT INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WERE DRAWING AND WHAT WAS THAT PIECE OF ART?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS THE CARTOON RIGHT HERE. FRANKLY, I THOUGHT IT WAS A LEGITIMATE CARTOON.

PHILIP BRUCE>> NOW DESCRIBE WHAT I'M SEEING HERE.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> IT'S BASED ON A PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING PHOTOGRAPH IN THE VIETNAM ERA IN 1968 OF POLICE CHIEF LOAN WHO WAS THE SOUTH SAIGON POLICE CHIEF AT THE TIME EXECUTING A VIETCONG MAN WHO HAD JUST MURDERED A COLONEL AND HIS WIFE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> YOU'RE SHOWING SOMEBODY POINTING A GUN AT THE PRESIDENT AND THAT'S WHAT GOT THE SECRET SERVICE UPSET?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YEAH. I THINK SOMEBODY LOOKED AT THIS AND OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE CARTOON AND HAD AN IMMEDIATE REACTION TO THE IMAGE OF SOMEBODY SHOOTING THE PRESIDENT NOT REALIZING THAT THIS WAS REALLY A TAKE-OFF ON A VERY FAMOUS PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING PHOTOGRAPH FROM THE VIETNAM ERA. THE POINT OF THE CARTOON, OBVIOUSLY, IS BEING TO DRAW THE PARALLEL BETWEEN THE POLITICIZATION OF THIS IRAQI WAR AND THE POLITICIZATION OF VIETNAM.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A MOVEMENT, SINCE THIS IS A PRESIDENTIAL YEAR, BY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES TO TRY TO DECONSTRUCT THE SUCCESS OF THE WAR AND TO PUT THE PRESIDENT IN AS BAD A LIGHT AS POSSIBLE. WHAT I'M SAYING IN THE CARTOON IS SIMPLY, METAPHORICALLY SPEAKING, POLITICALLY ASSASSINATING THE PRESIDENT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND THIS WAS NOT A NEGATIVE CARTOON AGAINST HIM?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> ABSOLUTELY NOT. IT'S A VERY POSITIVE CARTOON FOR THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IN THIS RESPECT, SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS WE'RE GOING A LITTLE BIT OUT OF BOUNDS BY STRETCHING THE ACCURACY OF THEIR STATEMENTS TO DEPICT THE PRESIDENT IN THE WORST LIGHT POSSIBLE FOR POLITICAL REASONS. IT'S NOT EVEN BASED ON FACT. IT'S BASED ON POLITICAL AMBITION.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND YOU, IN FACT, HAVE BEEN PRETTY SUPPORTIVE OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YEAH, FOR THE MOST PART. YOU KNOW, MY JOB ISN'T REALLY ABOUT WORKING FOR ANY PARTY PLATFORM EXCEPT FOR THE ANTI-STUPID PARTY MAYBE (LAUGHTER), BUT DEFINITELY WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUES BECAUSE I'M FUNDAMENTALLY VERY CONSERVATIVE IN MANY WAYS. I AGREE WITH A LOT THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE FACT THAT YOU PUT THIS IN PRINT AND THE FUROR THAT HAPPENED AFTERWARD, TELL ME FOR ONE THING HOW DID THE FACT THAT THE SECRET SERVICE WAS LOOKING AT THIS, HOW DID THAT GET OUT?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, YOU KNOW, INITIALLY I HAD HEARD ABOUT IT WHEN SOME FRIENDS OF MINE WHO ARE ON THE MORNING CREW OF A RADIO STATION IN MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE CALLED ME UP AND WOKE ME UP AND SAID, ALL RIGHT, YOU BIG COMMIE TROUBLEMAKER, WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN UP TO? IT SURPRISED ME AND THEY REFERRED ME TO A WEBSITE THAT HAD A REALLY MISLEADING HEADLINE THAT SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT SECRET SERVICE INVESTIGATES CARTOONIST ASSASSIN. IT DESCRIBED THIS CARTOON AND I THINK THAT STARTED THE FIRESTORM OF CONTROVERSY ABOUT IT. THE NATIONAL MEDIA PICKED IT UP AND THEN IT GREW A LIFE OF ITS OWN, REALLY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND BASICALLY THE IDEA IN SOME PEOPLES' MINDS IS THAT YOU WERE ADVOCATING THAT SOMEBODY WOULD SHOOT THE PRESIDENT?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> RIGHT, RIGHT. BUT CLEARLY, WHEN YOU SEE THE CARTOON, THAT ISN'T WHAT IT'S ABOUT. IT'S BASICALLY PARADING A PHOTOGRAPH, A VERY FAMOUS PHOTOGRAPH IN THE VIETNAM ERA.

PHILIP BRUCE>> SO HAVE YOU TALKED TO THE SECRET SERVICE? HAVE THEY COME IN HERE AND SHOOK YOU DOWN AND --

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> -- (LAUGHTER) YEAH, YOU KNOW, I HAD TO PAY EXTRA FOR THE STRIP SEARCH, BUT I REALLY ENJOYED IT (LAUGHTER). YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUNNY THING ABOUT IT IS, THIS STORY BROKE ON SUNDAY NIGHT AND THEN I REALLY DIDN'T GET A CALL FROM THE SECRET SERVICE UNTIL 10:30 THE NEXT MORNING. THE INTERESTING PART ABOUT IT WAS THAT HE WAS A REALLY NICE GUY AND HE HAD A GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR. HE WAS SO RELAXED AND CASUAL ABOUT IT THAT I JUST ASSUMED THE CALL WAS A HOAX.

HE CALLED ME UP AND SAID I'M FROM THE SECRET SERVICE AND I'D LIKE TO MEET YOU SOMEWHERE. I SAID YOU AND EVERYBODY ELSE. HOW DO I KNOW THAT YOU'RE WITH THE SECRET SERVICE? HE SAID I'LL HAVE A BLACK SUIT, BLACK SUNGLASSES AND CREDENTIALS. WE BOTH KIND OF LAUGHED AND HE SAID CAN I MEET YOU TODAY? AND I SAID SURE. HE SAID WHEN'S A GOOD TIME AND I SAID, WELL, RIGHT NOW IS PROBABLY A GOOD TIME AND HE SAID I'LL MEET YOU IN HALF AN HOUR. SO I SAID I'LL MEET YOU IN HALF AND HOUR AND MAKE SURE YOU BRING YOUR CREDENTIALS AND KIND OF LAUGHED ABOUT THAT.

MY EDITOR HAPPENED TO WALK IN AT THE SAME TIME AND WE LAUGHED ABOUT IT. I EVEN TOLD HER WHY DON'T WE HAVE OUR SECURITY CHECK THIS GUY OUT JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING ON HIM. AS IT TURNED OUT, HE WAS SECRET SERVICE. WHEN HE CAME AND SHOWED HIS CREDENTIALS, WE IMMEDIATELY THREW OUR LEGAL COUNSEL AT HIM, UNFORTUNATELY FOR HIM, AND I NEVER HEARD FROM HIM SINCE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE, MICHAEL, THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S SYMBOLIC OF THE TIMES, THAT IF YOU SAY ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE REMOTELY CRITICAL OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, SOMEBODY IS GOING TO COME KNOCKING AT YOUR DOOR. DO YOU SEE THAT AS BEING A PRODUCT OF THIS OR IS IT SOMETHING ELSE?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> WELL, I BELIEVE IT'S SECTION FIVE, ARTICLE TWO, AMENDMENT THREE OF THE PATRIOTIC ACT, KIND OF FOLLOWING CARTOONISTS AND INTIMIDATING THEM (LAUGHTER). YOU KNOW, I DON'T. I THINK IT'S PROBABLY FAR REMOVED FROM THAT. I'M NOT SO CERTAIN THAT THIS IS REALLY IN EFFECT OF INFRINGING ON OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES, ALTHOUGH THE THOUGHT OF ANY GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY TRYING TO INTIMIDATE A JOURNALIST IS SOMETHING THAT I'M ADAMANTLY OPPOSED TO. I THINK IT'S A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE THING, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S COME TO THAT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> HOW CAN YOU TOP THE GUN POINTING AT BUSH OR ARE YOU GOING TO TRY TO TOP THAT?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO TOP IT, BUT I'M SURE THAT I WILL AT SOME POINT. I TOLD MY EDITOR THAT I WAS GOING TO DO A CARTOON KNIFING CHENEY THE NEXT DAY AND, OF COURSE, THEY WERE ALL REPULSED BY THAT IDEA.

PHILIP BRUCE>> AND THEY'RE LOVING ALL THIS AT THE LOS ANGELES TIMES.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> YOU KNOW, IT THINK IT'S A GOOD THING ONLY BECAUSE IT ALLOWS THE LOS ANGELES TIMES TO SORT OF SHINE IN THE CONSTITUTIONAL SPOTLIGHT OF BEING THE PURVEYOR OF ALL THE NEWS, GOOD AND BAD.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE EDITORS LOVE IT WHEN THE SECRET SERVICE COME TO VISIT THEM? (LAUGHTER)

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> (LAUGHTER) YEAH, THEY DO, THEY DO. IT'S A LOT BETTER THAN HAVING ANGRY PROTESTORS, WHICH IS THE USUAL THING FOR ME ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> GIVEN THE FACT THAT YOU'RE PRETTY CONSERVATIVE ON A LOT OF ISSUES, DON'T YOU THINK IT'S IRONIC THAT YOU MIGHT WIND UP ON SOME ENEMY'S LIST SOMEWHERE?

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> (LAUGHTER) I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD ENJOY IT MORE THAN MYSELF AND PAUL CONRAD. I THINK PAUL WOULD GET A GOOD LAUGH OUT OF THAT SINCE HE WAS ON NIXON'S ENEMY LIST. IT WOULD BE QUITE IRONIC IF I ENDED UP ON W.'S ENEMY LIST. BUT THE WAY I DRAW CARTOONS, YOU KNOW, I'M AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY OFFENDER, I FIGURE I'LL GET ON EVERYBODY'S ENEMY LIST SOONER OR LATER.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MICHAEL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US ON LIFE AND TIMES.

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME BECAUSE I HAVE TO GO TO GITMO NEXT WEEK, SO WE MAY NOT HAVE A CHANCE TO DO THIS LATER ON.

PHILIP BRUCE>> WE'LL SEND YOU SOME BREAD AND WATER (LAUGHTER).

MICHAEL RAMIREZ>> (LAUGHTER) THANKS. I APPRECIATE THAT.

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VAL>> BEFORE KATHARINE HEPBURN DIED, SHE MADE A PACT WITH A LOS ANGELES WRITER. HEPBURN WOULD TELL HIM THE MOST INTIMATE DETAILS OF HER LEGENDARY LIFE AND CAREER AND HE WOULD WRITE THE STORY AFTER SHE WAS GONE. THE AUTHOR IS A. SCOTT BERG, WHO WROTE THE BEST-SELLING BIOGRAPHY OF CHARLES LINDBERGH. NOW HE'S WRITTEN A NEW BOOK ON HEPBURN BASED ON HIS TWENTY-YEAR-LONG CONVERSATION WITH THE ACTRESS. TONIGHT PATT MORRISON SITS DOWN WITH BERG TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE STORY ONLY HE CAN TELL.

PATT MORRISON>> SCOTT BERG, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

A. SCOTT BERG>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.

PATT MORRISON>> YOUR MEMOIR, "KATE REMEMBERED". EVERYONE WANTS THE LAST WORD AND, THANKS TO YOU, KATHARINE HEPBURN GOT IT. WHAT DO YOU SUPPOSE SHE MEANT BY THIS? SHE OBVIOUSLY WANTED YOU TO TELL THE WORLD SOMETHING AFTER SHE'D LEFT IT.

A. SCOTT BERG>> I THINK SHE WANTED ME TO TELL A LOT OF THINGS. I THINK, FIRST OF ALL, SHE'S SOMEBODY WHO HAD NEVER REALLY REFLECTED DURING HER OWN LIFETIME, BUT I THINK SHE USED THE LAST TWENTY YEARS OF HER LIFE IN THE CONVERSATIONS SHE AND I HAD TOGETHER THINKING ABOUT HER LIFE, TALKING ABOUT HER LIFE. I THINK SHE HAD A LOT OF MESSAGES. I THINK AMONG THEM WAS, AT ONE POINT, I ASKED HER JUST A DOPEY QUESTION, WHAT'S THE MEANING OF LIFE (LAUGHTER) AND SHE JUMPED RIGHT IN. SHE SAID TO WORK HARD AND TO LOVE SOMEONE AND TO HAVE FUN. SHE SAID, IF YOU'RE LUCKY, YOU KEEP YOUR HEALTH AND SOMEONE LOVES YOU BACK. I THOUGHT THAT WAS A PRETTY CONCISE AND WONDERFUL MESSAGE TO PASS ALONG.

PATT MORRISON>> WHO DO YOU THINK WAS MORE SURPRISED AT THE EVOLUTION OF THIS REMARKABLE FRIENDSHIP, YOU OR SHE?

A. SCOTT BERG>> WELL, I WAS CERTAINLY MORE SURPRISED (LAUGHTER). THE OTHER SURPRISE FOR HER MIGHT HAVE BEEN WHEN I ARRIVED. I MEAN, WHO KNEW WHAT IT WOULD BECOME? MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, SHE WAS VERY SHREWD. WHEN I KNOCKED ON HER DOOR IN 1983 AT HER INVITATION TO DO A MAGAZINE INTERVIEW, IT WAS A MOMENT WHERE SHE HAD BEEN SLOWED DOWN FOR THE FIRST TIME. SHE'D BEEN IN A CAR WRECK. SHE HAD ALMOST KILLED HERSELF AND A FRIEND. SHE WAS SEDENTARY FOR THE FIRST TIME AND I THINK REALLY REPLAYING ALL THE STORIES OF HER LIFE. NO COINCIDENCE. SHE OPENS THE DOOR WIDE TO A BIOGRAPHER, SOMEONE WHO SPENDS HIS LIFE TAKING THE PIECES OF PEOPLES' LIVES AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER IN SOME COHERENT FORM.

PATT MORRISON>> WAS IT DIFFICULT OR DID YOU EVEN FEEL CONSCIOUS OF SORT OF OPERATING ON TWO LEVELS THAT YOU WERE HER FRIEND, BUT YOU ALSO HAD AN EYE TO RECORDING HER LIFE AT SOME FUTURE POINT?

A. SCOTT BERG>> SOMETIMES I DID, ALTHOUGH THERE WAS NEVER ANY QUESTION WHY I WAS THERE ON ANY GIVEN DAY OR NIGHT, AND THAT WAS TO BE HER FRIEND. I MEAN, I WAS SHOWING UP, I WAS GIVEN A KEY TO THE HOUSE, I WAS GIVEN A BEDROOM UPSTAIRS BECAUSE I WAS HER FRIEND AND SHE WAS MY FRIEND. WHEN I THINK BACK ON HOW WE SPENT OUR TIME, I THINK MOST OF IT WAS EATING (LAUGHTER) OR CLEANING UP AFTER WE ATE, SITTING BY THE FIRE OR WEEDING THE GARDEN OR RIDING BIKES, THINGS LIKE THAT. IT REALLY WAS ONLY LATE AT NIGHT THAT WE HAD THE HEAVIER CONVERSATIONS, AT WHICH POINT SHE --

PATT MORRISON>> -- WITH A COUPLE OF SCOTCHES.

A. SCOTT BERG>> YES, SOMETIMES A SCOTCH AFTER DINNER. SHE WOULD THEN SAY YOU SHOULD REALLY GO UPSTAIRS AND WRITE THAT DOWN. THE NEXT MORNING, IT WOULD BE DID YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT STORY?

PATT MORRISON>> THERE IS SOME VERY POIGNANT PART IN THE BOOK WHICH GOES TO HER PERCEPTION OF YOU. THIS IS RARE TRIP OF HERS TO LOS ANGELES. YOU INVITE HER UP TO SEE YOUR HOUSE AND SHE SAID SHE DOESN'T REALLY WANT TO SEE IT. IT'S AS IF SHE WANTS TO KEEP ABSTRACT THE NOTION THAT YOU LIVE ANYWHERE EXCEPT NEAR HER, HAVE ANY FRIENDS OR STATUS OR RELATIONSHIP APART FROM THE ONE WITH HER.

A. SCOTT BERG>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. I CAUGHT ON TO THIS VERY EARLY ON WHEN I FIRST MET HER. SHE REALLY LIKED THE FACT THAT I WAS SPENDING TIME WITH HER ALONE. SHE DID VISIT THE HOUSE. SHE KEPT PUTTING OFF COMING TO MY HOUSE AND SHE LITERALLY TOOK FOUR STEPS INSIDE THE HOUSE AND THEN SHE JUST SAID I DON'T LIKE TO THINK OF YOU LIVING ANYWHERE. LET'S GO. WE DROVE OFF AND THAT WAS THAT.

I HAD HEARD OF SOMEBODY -- THERE WAS A PERIOD IN THE 1990'S WHEN I WAS WRITING MY LINDBERGH BOOK AND I WASN'T ABLE TO GET THERE AS OFTEN TO VISIT HER BACK EAST IN CONNECTICUT OR NEW YORK AND I HEARD THAT SHE HAD INVITED A YOUNG WRITER TO COME UP AND VISIT HER IN FENWICK FOR THE WEEKEND. SHE HAD TAKEN A GREAT SHINE TO THIS YOUNG GUY AND SHE INVITED HIM BACK THE NEXT WEEK AND HE CAME BACK THE NEXT WEEK WITH HIS WIFE AND WAS NEVER ASKED BACK AGAIN (LAUGHTER).

PATT MORRISON>> (LAUGHTER) THE QUEEN BEE CAN BROOK NO COMPETITION, I SUPPOSE.

A. SCOTT BERG>> THAT WAS IT. WHEN YOU WERE THERE, YOU WERE ONE-ON-ONE, OR AT LEAST I WAS. EVERY NOW AND THEN, THERE WOULD BE SOMEBODY ELSE AT DINNER, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT NINETY PERCENT OF THE TIME, WE SPENT TOGETHER AND ALONE.

[FILM CLIP]

PATT MORRISON>> THE SAD PART IS THAT, WHEN YOU DESCRIBED THE RELATIONSHIP WITH TRACY DURING HIS LATER YEARS BECAME ABUSIVE AND HOW SHE GAVE UP HER CAREER TO SPEND TIME, IT WAS ALMOST AN INVERT OF THE IMAGE THAT SHE'D PROJECTED SO MUCH IN HER FILMS AND IN THE INDEPENDENCE OF HER PERSONAL LIFE AS WELL, THAT SHE WAS, YOU KNOW, LITERALLY WILLING TO CLEAN UP AFTER THIS MAN.

A. SCOTT BERG>> THAT IS LARGELY TRUE. FOR FIVE YEARS, SHE DID DO THAT AND, STRANGELY OR NOT, SHE WAS, I THINK, PROUD OF THOSE FIVE YEARS. I THINK IT WAS LARGELY BECAUSE SHE FELT SHE HAD LIVED NOT AS A FEMINIST, BUT THAT SHE HAD LIVED RATHER SELFISHLY FOR MUCH OF HER LIFE AND REALLY HAD USED MEN TO AID HER. I THINK, FOR THE FIRST TIME, WELL, SHE WAS MORE IN LOVE WITH SPENCER TRACY THAN ANYBODY ELSE SHE HAD KNOWN. I THINK SHE FELT THIS WAS A WAY SHE COULD PROVE TO HERSELF THAT SHE WAS NOT A SELFISH PERSON, THAT SHE COULD GIVE TO SOMEBODY, ESPECIALLY SOMEBODY SHE LOVED. SO SHE DID SUBLIMATE A LOT OF WHO SHE WAS, I THINK.

PATT MORRISON>> ONE REMARK YOU MAKE IS THAT SHE NEVER LOOKED BACK. DID SHE EVER LOOK BACK? DID SHE EVER HAVE ANY REGRETS OR THINK THAT IF I AMENDED THIS OR CHANGED THAT IN MY LIFE --

A. SCOTT BERG>> -- IN THE BIG WAY, I DON'T THINK SHE HAD REGRETS. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, THERE WERE COMPROMISES ALONG THE WAY AND THERE WERE SMALL REGRETS. PEOPLE WONDER IF SHE REGRETTED NOT HAVING CHILDREN. I THINK, FOR THE MOST PART, SHE DID NOT AND YET I SAY THERE SHE WAS A SEVENTY-FIVE OPENING THE DOOR WIDE TO A THIRTY-THREE YEAR OLD GUY WHO MIGHT VERY WELL HAVE BEEN HER SON OR GRANDSON. I THINK THERE WAS AN ELEMENT OF ALONENESS IF NOT LONELINESS IN THE LATER YEARS, ALTHOUGH SHE ALWAYS HAD LOADS OF FRIENDS AROUND HER. BUT AS HER FRIEND, IRENE SELZNICK, POINTS OUT, AS I PUT IN THE BOOK, THERE'S NOBODY LEFT WHO KNOWS ALL THOSE PEOPLE AND I THINK THAT'S WHY SHE TOOK A SHINE TO ME TOO. I WAS STEEPED IN HOLLYWOOD HISTORY. I KNEW THEM ALL.

PATT MORRISON>> YOU KNEW THEM ALL. ALL HER CONTEMPORARIES.

A. SCOTT BERG>> YEAH, WHEN I WAS DOING MY GOLDWYN BOOK, I HAD INTERVIEWED THOSE, YOU KNOW, TWENTY GREAT DIRECTORS FROM THE THIRTIES AND FORTIES WHO WERE STILL ALIVE AND SO MANY OF HER COSTARS, SO LITERALLY I WAS BRINGING MESSAGES BACK AND FORTH TO AND FROM KATHARINE HEPBURN.

PATT MORRISON>> WHAT WILL YOU MISS MOST ABOUT HER AFTER A TWENTY-YEAR FRIENDSHIP?

A. SCOTT BERG>> I THINK I WILL MOST MISS THE DIALOGUE. NOBODY WROTE BETTER KATHARINE HEPBURN DIALOGUE THAN KATHARINE HEPBURN. I'M TELLING YOU, SHE SPOKE IN EPIGRAMS. I MEAN, SOME OF IT WAS JUST HILARIOUS. I WILL MISS A VERY DEAR, REALLY GENEROUS, FRIEND, SOMEBODY WHO REALLY ANTICIPATED. SHE DID SO MANY THINGS FOR ME AND I DON'T RECALL EVER ASKING FOR A SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

PATT MORRISON>> WELL, YOU DID MANY THINGS FOR US IN DELIVERING HER TO US IN YOUR MEMOIR. FOR SUCH A MEMORABLE WOMAN AND MEMORABLE WORK, SCOTT BERG, WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

A. SCOTT BERG>> I THANK YOU, PATT.

VAL>> KATHARINE HEPBURN WAS SCOTT BERG'S FRIEND, BUT SHE WASN'T THE FIRST HOLLYWOOD LEGEND HE HAD WRITTEN ABOUT. A FEW YEARS BACK, HE WROTE ANOTHER BEST-SELLER ABOUT THE LATE STUDIO MOGUL, SAMUEL GOLDWYN.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM. I'M VAL ZAVALA REPORTING FROM DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES. FOR ALL OF US AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

LIFE AND TIMES WAS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF
THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, DEVELOPERS ARE TURNING DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES INTO A FASHIONABLE ADDRESS, BUT ONE WOMAN IS DETERMINED TO SAVE SKID ROW FOR THE POOR.

>> SPECULATORS ARE THROWING MONEY AT ANY PIECE OF PROPERTY THEY CAN FIND ON MAIN STREET. PROPERTY VALUES ARE RISING RAPIDLY. WE CANNOT COMPETE IN THAT MARKET.

VAL>> THAT'S TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES.