11/21/03

LC031121
Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times --

Can America defend its borders and still be compassionate toward
illegal immigrants? We'll examine one of California's biggest
ethical dilemmas.

Rabbi Marc Dworkin>> If a person is in your midst, they have an
absolute right to healthcare. They have a right, in fact, to
have their children get an education. Again, we cannot punish
the strangers or the children of the strangers because we don't
like what the parent did.

Val>> And then, JFK's California connection and the veteran
campaigner who still remembers the glory days on the campaign
trail.

These stories and more coming up next on tonight's Life and
Times.

Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of
the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality
of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of
medicine, health, science and education.

Val>> Hello, I'm Val Zavala. Once again, illegal immigration
is a hot issue in California. Our new governor says he may
repeal the law that allows undocumented workers to get driver's
licenses. The basic question remains. Just who are these
people? Are immigrants just poor folks in need of a break or a
drain on the California economy? Saul Gonzalez looks for some
answers in this report that first aired on Religion and Ethics
News Weekly.

Saul Gonzalez>> At dawn in Los Angeles, these men are looking
for work at a day labor site. Although many of them are illegal
immigrants, this facility was established by the city of Los
Angeles and the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights.

>> From my perspective, there is money in Los Angeles, but
we're finding that there are few jobs. Of the little work I've
found, I've sent the money to my family back home.

Saul Gonzalez>> The national debate over illegal immigration is
often framed in economic terms such as whether undocumented
workers contribute more to the economy than they take out or
whether they take jobs away from U.S. citizens. However,
illegal immigration also forces America to confront a profound
ethical question, namely how does the country reconcile treating
poor and vulnerable newcomers compassionately while defending
its immigration laws and national self-interests. Immigrant
rights advocates say undocumented workers often fall prey from
unscrupulous employers.

Angelica Salas>> There is a belief by the general populace that
the undocumented do not have rights. So because of that
situation, you have employers who are more than willing to, many
times, pay individuals less than minimum wage. But
unfortunately in many instances, especially at the work sites,
we see a lot of people who are not paid at all.

Saul Gonzalez>> Ira Mehlman of the Federation for American
Immigration Reform says the U.S. needs to be more concerned
about upholding its immigration laws than protecting
undocumented workers.

Ira Mehlman>> The United States has an obligation to enforce
the laws of this country, all the laws of the country and not
just the ones that people want to obey. Why should anybody obey
our immigration laws when there is clear evidence that, if you
come here illegally, nobody is going to do anything about it
and, in fact, you're going to have advocates here who are going
to say let's legalize these people once they get here. Let's
reward them for having broken the law.

Saul Gonzalez>> Some people of faith believe the country needs
to show immigrants hospitality, even those who are here
illegally.

Rabbi Marc Dworkin>> The first thing we have to do is not try
to deny people basic human and civil rights, so I would say this
concept of welcoming, of hospitality even, certainly not
exploitation of these strangers, is very essential to religious
thought.

Victor Davis Hansen>> You and I welcome people into our home.
Do we welcome five hundred into our home? It's a question of
the limitations of time and space.

Saul Gonzalez>> Victor Davis Hansen is a fifth generation
California grower, an author and social commentator. He says
lax enforcement of immigration laws has permitted more people to
come into the country than the United States can assimilate.

Victor Davis Hansen>> American tradition is the immigrants come
legally, they go through an English emersion, a cultural
emersion and the second generation is clearly better off than
the first, than the third and the second and the fourth and the
third. That's working for a minority of Mexican immigrants who
come legally and know some English and adopt an American
identity and embrace assimilation. But for so many people
coming so quickly without English and illegally, we've
overwhelmed the powers that we used to rely on to assimilate.

Saul Gonzalez>> Hansen lives in California's agriculture
heartland, the San Joaquin Valley, a region whose economy
benefits from undocumented workers like Geraldo Reyes.

Geraldo Reyes (interpreted)>> We pick all the crops and break
our backs. The immigrants that are documented, you don't see
them here in the fields working and inhaling dirt. They think
we're bad, but without us, who's going to pick the crops?

Saul Gonzalez>> Hansen, who advocates stricter border
enforcement, says those who favor relaxing immigration laws fail
to recognize the moral consequences of their position.

Victor Davis Hansen>> They are the amoralists, so to speak,
because they depend on cheap labor to do what they do not want
to do. They've allowed apartheid communities to spring up in
California where the people who cut their lawn, clean the pool,
paint their house are here illegally from Mexico and yet their
own children will never go to school with those kids, they'll
never shop at the same stores. It's almost as if they come in
from Mars, parachute down at their home, work eight hours, and
then out of sight, out of mind.

Saul Gonzalez>> Illegal immigrants themselves are becoming
increasingly vocal. In October, thousands converged on New York
demanding legal status and safer workplace conditions. In
Congress, legislators are once again considering bills long
sidelined by the 9/11 attacks that would grant guest worker
visas to hundreds of thousands of people now in the United
States illegally. Immigrant rights advocates say such benefits
are long overdue considering what undocumented workers
contribute to the nation's economy.

Angelica Salas>> It is morally suspect when you're receiving
the work of all immigrants that you really do benefit in terms
of cheaper products and, I think, just overall, the service that
immigrants give. But then not to see these individuals as
humans, not to see them as people with families, with needs,
with aspirations, hopes and dreams, that is incorrect.

Ira Mehlman>> The social costs of illegal immigration are
enormous. It's estimated that it costs about $7.5 billion
dollars a year in the United States every year to educate
illegal alien children in our public schools. So we are taking
enormous resources that could be used to provide a higher
quality of education for a lot of other kids in this country and
spending it on illegal immigrants.

Saul Gonzalez>> Others would say these immigrants must be
educated so they can be part of the workforce of the future.
And as the national debate continues over the burdens and the
benefits of illegal immigration, some people of faith say that
compassion should govern policy.

Rabbi Marc Dworkin>> We talk, first of all, about civil rights
in this country of the citizen. There are such things as human
rights. If a person is in your midst, they have an absolute
right to healthcare. They have a right, in fact, to have their
children get education. Again, we cannot punish the stranger or
the children of the strangers because we don't like what the
parent did.

Saul Gonzalez>> The morality of how we treat newcomers has long
been a national challenge, one that becomes more and more acute
as the number of people in the U.S. illegally seems to grow.

Val>> In Sacramento, the debate over driver's licenses is
heating up. California's top Democrat, State Senator John
Burton, called the opposition effort racist and Governor
Schwarzenegger says he may be willing to consider the license
proposal if illegal immigrants are in the process of getting
legalized and if they pass a security check.

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>> "From Election Central in New York, NBC News reports
Election Night 1960."

>> "Let's take a look at the total figures of the popular vote.
It stayed very close throughout the evening. Neither one has
pulled away and parts have now shifted in favor of Vice
President Nixon carrying.."

>> "Here we come back to the power house again in the West for
thirty-two electoral votes of California and they still show
that Kennedy will lead the state.."

Philip Bruce>> It was one of the great political cliffhangers
of all time and California was one of the big prizes. November
1960, an anniversary some people prefer to remember instead of
that tragic day in Dallas forty years ago.

Richard Nixon>> "If the present trend continues, Senator
Kennedy will be the next President of the United States."

Philip Bruce>> When the final vote was counted, John Kennedy
lost here to the state's native son, Richard Nixon, but
California still played a key role in JFK's overall victory, and
one of the reasons was Joe Cerrell, then a young campaign
operative fresh out of USC and Kennedy's man in southern
California. Today Cerrell is a well-known consultant and a
veteran of many campaigns, but his memories of the 1960 campaign
are just as vivid as the photos that line his Los Angeles
office, including this ride down Broadway in downtown Los
Angeles just days before the election.

Joe Cerrell>> The confetti, my then girlfriend and now wife,
you know, purchased all the confetti and all the glitter and
made all the signs and everything. There was not a lot of
spontaneity to this sort of thing, but the media coverage. We
did this one in the morning. The media coverage which went
coast to coast, not live. We didn't do much live in 1960. It
was a great signal all over the United States how well he was
being received. He came in by helicopter. Fog had rolled in
and we landed. You never could do that now. Remember, a week
later, he was the president. Land in the Miracle Mile on
Wilshire Boulevard and go out and hail a cab? You can't. We
got some private car to drive out there.

Philip Bruce>> And there's virtually -- you've got security in
that car, but not a lot.

Joe Cerrell>> You know what you've got? You've got an off-duty
hired policeman period, because they didn't do it in those days.
John Kennedy was elected on a Tuesday night. Buchanan of the
Secret Service White House Detail is saying do I beef up Vice
President Nixon's detail in Los Angeles? Do I send agents to
Hyannisport? He says I know what I'll do. I'm going to go to
bed. When I wake up, I'll see who the president is. Kennedy
has no security and it's the day he's elected President of the
United States, other than some sheriff or police department of
Hyannisport, Massachusetts.

Philip Bruce>> Kennedy wanted to win California, but Cerrell
says that everybody knew Richard Nixon, then the sitting Vice
President and a veteran California Republican, had the clear
edge.

Joe Cerrell>> He was a local Whittier boy. He was in the
military, a member of the Congress, a member of the Senate.

Philip Bruce>> He was a huge California favorite.

Joe Cerrell>> Even his wife, a USC graduate. I mean, his roots
were here and, although we'd swept the state in 1958 -- which
was the slogan of the campaign -- it was a real uphill fight in
1960. We came close, but that doesn't count.

Philip Bruce>> Even so, Los Angeles was the place where John
Kennedy's run for the White House got its major launch. He won
the nomination at the Democratic National Convention here held
in Los Angeles's then brand new Sports Arena.

John F. Kennedy>> "This is an important election, in many ways
the most important election in the history of this country."

Philip Bruce>> Cerrell helped arrange Kennedy's victory speech
in the Los Angeles Coliseum where the biggest fear was empty
seats. But as it turned out, Kennedy had no trouble drawing a
crowd.

[Film Clip]

Joe Cerrell>> I'm not going to tell you that, although as I
said, I met him as a student. Hey, I'd met Senator Humphrey as
a student and Senator Kefauver as a student. I mean, I'm not
going to sit here and say, oh, I knew it in 1956 or I knew it
way back. That's not true. All those people, you know, they
always knew it? Forget it. I mean, they didn't know that he
was going to be nominated, so he was just another candidate.
But personally speaking, the only reason I was closer is he was
the youngest guy. I could relate to him.

Philip Bruce>> And you were still basically a kid yourself.
You weren't that old.

Joe Cerrell>> During that campaign, I'd turned twenty-five and
I was the assistant manager for southern California. It was
exciting. A younger guy and he wasn't taken with himself. You
know, you didn't have security and you didn't have a staff. I
would sit there and drive and he'd sit next to me. Once in a
while, I'd have maybe a staff person in the back. You know,
we'd break bread together, but you didn't say to yourself, hey,
this is the next president of the United States.

>> "The President's car is now turning onto Elm Street and it
will be only a matter of minutes before he arrives at the Trade
Mart. I was on the Stemmons Freeway earlier and even the
freeway was jam packed with spectators waiting their chance to
see the President as he made his way toward the Trade Mart."

>> There appears as though something has happened in the
motorcade route. There has been a shooting. The Parkland
Hospital has been advised to stand by for a severe gunshot
wound. The Presidential car is coming up now. We can see Mrs.
Kennedy's pink dress. There's a Secret Service man spread eagle
on the top of the car. We can't see who has been hit, if
anybody has been hit, but apparently something is wrong here.
Something is terribly wrong."

Philip Bruce>> Now you look back to those days and this
fortieth anniversary coming up. What's this anniversary like
for you?

Joe Cerrell>> Well, November 22 is always very, very bad. I
mean, I'm not doing it to brag because I'd never have that
opportunity again, but I mean this was a personal friend. I
mean, I knew the wife. I didn't know the children. Ted Kennedy
and I shared an office in 1960 down on Beverly and Alvarado.
The building is still there, so you got to know that part of the
family.

Philip Bruce>> Do you ever wonder what might have been? I
guess that's the eternal question.

Joe Cerrell>> Every once in a while, I think about, you know,
what he might look like today.

Philip Bruce>> He would be eighty-six years old. Can you
believe that?

Joe Cerrell>> Yeah, but it still, again, underscores how young
he was until William Jefferson Clinton came along. I have a lot
of thoughts on that, but we'll never know if there would really
have been a Vietnam or certainly would it have been at the
magnitude that it was. I think that's probably the thing that I
think about most. I think what would it have meant to his
brothers and, you know, what would have happened to their
political futures? Would the country have been better off?

The people -- it was such a contrast, the people I mentioned,
going backwards to Dwight Eisenhower, Harry Truman whom I did
know, and Franklin Roosevelt and Herbert Hoover. All of a
sudden, you've got somebody they can relate to. I mean, he
stands out on the steps of the house in Georgetown and meets
with reporters. They didn't do things like that, and the people
felt comfortable. Again, it's like how do you define charisma?
I don't know, but he had it.

John F. Kennedy>> "All of us have in our veins the exact same
percentage of salt in our blood that exists in the ocean.
Therefore, we have salt in our blood, in our sweat, in our
tears. We are tied to the ocean and, when we go back to the
sea, whether it is to sail or to watch it, we are going back
from whence we came."

To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us
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Life and Times
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Val>> You're about to meet one of the funniest men in America.
Who else but Mel Brooks could have written a musical about Adolf
Hitler and a chorus line of dancing Nazis? "The Producers" is
in its final weeks of a long run at Los Angeles's Pantages
Theatre, so we thought it would be a good time to check in with
Mel Brooks, the man who's been cranking out punch lines for half
a century. Vicki Curry has our story.

[Film Clip]

Vicki Curry>> Mel Brooks got his start as a Borschfeldt comic,
but he writes a lot more than jokes. Music was his first love.

[Film Clip]

Mel Brooks>> I write songs all the time. You know, there was
some surprise. My God, twenty songs for "The Producers". How
did that happen? If they had seen my movies starting with "The
Producers", with "Prisoners of Love" and "Springtime for
Hitler", they would have known that's what this guy does.

Susan Stroman>> The thing is, too, about Mel, in all movies, he
does take a bow to the musical theater. You know, he even gets
Frankenstein's monster to dance.

[Film Clip]

Susan Stroman>> So he is a man who loves musicals. It's quite
natural that this man who has put musical moments in all his
movies has now made a musical.

Vicki Curry>> The former Melvyn Kaminsky fell in love with
Broadway as a kid in Brooklyn and dreamed of being a songwriter,
but Mel Brooks ended up in comedy writing for TV classics like
"Your Show of Shows".

[Film Clip]

Vicki Curry>> "The Producers" was Brooks' first film. He wrote
and directed it and, even though it was a box office flop, the
film included two original Mel Brooks songs that became the
basis for the stage show, "Prisoners of Love" and "Springtime
for Hitler".

[Film Clip]

Mel Brooks>> When it was first a movie, it only played in Los
Angeles, Chicago and New York, so nobody knew it. The New York
Times trashed it, called it black college humor.

[Film Clip]

Vicki Curry>> Over the years, the film became a cult classic.
But when movie mogul, David Geffen, suggested turning "The
Producers" into a musical, Brooks initially turned him down.

Mel Brooks>> And I said to David, it's finally good. Let it
alone. You know, it's become accepted. You're going to kill it
again (laughter) with -- you know, you're going to make a
musical -- I mean, you let the critics in again, we're finished.

Vicki Curry>> Brooks eventually agreed with Geffen, but it was
a long process translating the film to stage.

Thomas Meehan>> The important thing in a musical to start with
is a kind of strong central character who's bigger than life.

[Film Clip]

Vicki Curry>> Brooks turned to his long-time collaborator,
musical writer Thomas Meehan, for help with the translation.

Thomas Meehan>> We had to take this movie apart. We also had
to do a lot of things in the movie that we didn't want on the
stage and there were other things that were missing that we
needed to put into it.

Vicki Curry>> Another member of the team is director and
choreographer, Susan Stroman.

Susan Stroman>> The thing is, Mel had to be open about changing
it from a cinematic script to a theater script, and because he
was open to that, we were home free.

Thomas Meehan>> But "The Producers" had it because it was a
breakthrough story of making the switch. We needed a musical
opening. We couldn't open with two guys sitting in an office
and talking for fifteen minutes, so we created this idea that it
was Max Bialystock's opening night of his most recent disastrous
plot.

[Film Clip]

Thomas Meehan>> It turns into a musical right away. It's no
longer the movie. We make it as something else.

[Film Clip]

Vicki Curry>> It may be something else, but it's still all
vintage Mel Brooks. Everyone involved in the production fell
under the spell of his unique brand of comedy. They call it The
World of Mel.

Susan Stroman>> And that means really understanding his comedy
and understanding the success of his comedy. In fact, I think
every actor in the show needed to immerse themselves in The
World of Mel because it certainly is a style that is separate
from other comedians. It's all good-natured and all sort of
with a wink.

Jason Alexander>> I feel like I grew up in The World of Mel.
I've been listening to his material since I was five years old.
You know, Mel Brooks could easily be a member of my family.
Eccentric Jews are what I grew up with. I could be wrong, but I
feel so comfortable with what he does and what he offers.

Martin Short>> Mel could have been a member of my family,
except that someone would eventually say what's that eccentric
Jew doing with all these Catholics? (laughter) I don't
understand it.

[Film Clip]

Vicki Curry>> After more than fifty years in show biz, Mel
Brooks is back doing what he loves best: songwriting.

Mel Brooks>> I'm the gentile Irving Berlin and somewhat the
Jewish Cole Porter. I love Berlin and Porter. Why do I like
them so much? Why do I like those guys? Because, like Frank
Lesser and Jerry Rubin, they do the whole thing. They write the
words and the music. It's not Rodgers and Hart and it's not
Dorothy Fields writing for Jerome Kern. It's words and music
and I love it. There's a wonderful marriage in the sound and
the joy of the song when the words and music are written by the
same guy.

[Film Clip]

Val>> "The Producers" starring Jason Alexander and Martin Short
continues at the Pantages Theatre through January 4. And that's
our program. I'm Val Zavala. For everyone at Life and times,
thanks for watching.

Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of
the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality
of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of
medicine, health, science and education.

Val>> Monday on Life and Times, a new state law forces
employers to provide healthcare, but is it really good for
workers?

Jack Kyser>> If we do this, yes, it is good for the workers,
but then the question is, one year, two years, three years down
the road, does the worker have a job? That's what we've got to
be real concerned about.

Val>> That's Monday on Life and Times.