05/27/04

LC040527

Coverage of Town Hall Los Angeles speakers on Life and Times is
made possible by a grant from the Boeing Company.

Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times --

The lessons of America's war with Iraq learned first-hand by a
Southern California school teacher.

Edward Wandrick>> So when they see this American that hops off
a truck or out of a plane that's the same color as them, you
know, the first thing is they'll grab to your wrist and they'll
tap hands to their hands and go "same-same".

Val>> And then, a look at what it takes to survive on the
battlefield and how the Marines at Camp Pendleton get prepared.
Plus a former top diplomat from the Clinton years on those
elusive weapons of mass destruction.

It's all next on tonight's Life and Times.

Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of
the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality
of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of
medicine, health, science and education.

Val>> The war in Iraq is half a world away, but it's being
fought largely by citizen soldiers, everyday folks who live next
door, and you're about to meet one of them. He's an Army
Reservist who also teaches fifth grade in South Los Angeles and,
as Toni Guinyard discovered, this educator learned some powerful
lessons during his recent tour of duty.

Edward Wandrick>> I try to enjoy each day. You know, I've
learned to take that time out to enjoy each day.

Toni Guinyard>> Army Reserve logistic specialist, Edward
Wandrick, is back in Los Angeles after serving a thirteen-month
long tour of duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Edward Wandrick>> Even though I've been back, we still have
people over there we know, you know, people who are in Fallujah,
people who are in Iraq, people who are all over that territory.
You know, they're called back. You know, they need certain
things. Just because you come home and you're back, it doesn't
mean you didn't leave somebody behind there.

Toni Guinyard>> Those friends left behind reach out to him with
e-mail. Communicating in carefully-worded messages void of
classified information, some write of fears and frustrations.

Edward Wandrick>> "To make a long story short, we're sure to
face more danger. Today a convoy was in a gunfight with these
followers of Saddam. They were attacked from both sides on the
road. Luckily, I was not included on the convoy. All I can say
is that things are about to get worse, but we are determined not
to be pushed back."

Toni Guinyard>> E-mail has become a lifeline connecting the
world the troops are currently in with the world to which they
want to return.

Edward Wandrick>> "I've just received some bad news. Instead
of me leaving this month to come home, I'll be leaving around
August or September due to all the uprisings by the Shiites.
We'll be leaving our current location to go to other bases that
are not equipped well enough to fight off the insurgents."

Toni Guinyard>> The extensions of their tours of duty with
little or no warning is taking a toll.

Edward Wandrick>> With a lot of folks, the irritation, you
know, even with me, wasn't that. It was that we had to do six
months, ten months or thirteen months. Just tell me what am I
going to do so I can go do that and I can come back home?

[Film Clip]

Toni Guinyard>> Back home to Weems Elementary in South Los
Angeles. Wandrick is a fifth grade teacher here. When he was
deployed in December 2002, he had to abruptly leave his class,
his children, behind.

Edward Wandrick>> I had to turn the classroom over and, you
know, everybody was very supportive. I had to let the classroom
go, so that was kind of hard to do because I felt that this was
one of the best classrooms I'd had because they were all bright,
they were learning. Everything was clicking.

Toni Guinyard>> His return to school was celebrated during an
early morning assembly with poems and speeches and banners and
songs.

[Film Clip]

Toni Guinyard>> A welcome home by grade school children, many
of whom struggled to understand why the teacher was sent into
the danger zone. He is their connection to a life lesson about
conflict and war. He vowed to stay in touch while he was gone
and he made good on his promise.

Edward Wandrick>> Throughout the travels of the Middle East, I
would come across certain things that I thought were, you know,
pretty cool for myself. I'm a big kid, so I thought that these
other kids would like them.

Toni Guinyard>> Unexpected care packages arrived with water,
soda and candy bars, everyday items in unfamiliar packaging.

Edward Wandrick>> I just thought that not only was it a nice
thing, but it was a different world view applied to something so
familiar.

Carlene Butler>> It was like a soda with Arabic writing. I
never saw that before. And some candy sizes that we don't have
here.

Toni Guinyard>> Carlene and Amanda are two of Wandrick's former
fifth grade students. We met them in April 2003 just months
after Wandrick was deployed.

Amanda Suzukawa>> When he was at war, I always wondered if he's
okay because it scares me that he's in a war.

Toni Guinyard>> Wandrick was initially told he'd only be gone
for six months, but that six months ended up being more than one
full year and the students he left behind, those that were in
his class, have now moved on. They're in middle school now, but
they returned to welcome their former teacher back on his first
day of school.

>> "I prayed to God every night that you would come back home
safe to America."

Annette Kessler>> What he saw and what he experienced was not
always pretty, but what he does bring back is a spirit of pride,
a spirit of doing his duty and being a responsible human being
and how important every day of life is.

Toni Guinyard>> While in the Middle East, Wandrick kept daily
journals. They hold his thoughts, his observations.

Edward Wandrick>> Advancing upon Baghdad, you know, the fights
in the sandstorms, a month later the battle for Tikrit. There's
a lot of parallels being applied to this war and Vietnam and a
lot of the armed forces are concerned that, you know, we have
the support of the people. We don't want to be looked upon, you
know, like some of the soldiers in Vietnam were treated when
they came back, you know, as disenfranchised people, folks who
had questions about, you know, their actions and what they did
and why they did.

Toni Guinyard>> Wandrick is writing a book.

Edward Wandrick>> I entitle it "The Dawn Before Baghdad" for a
number of reasons. Some of the issues that we were dealing with
in terms of cowardice versus bravery, life versus suicide,
loyalty and fidelity, leadership and rankings, being at home and
being abroad.

Toni Guinyard>> This writing therapy, as he calls it, provides
us with a first-hand account of his experiences. He says the
racial diversity of the U.S. military came as a shock to many of
the people they came face to face with every day.

Edward Wandrick>> The shock is that, you know, the idea that
all the Americans are blond and blue-eyed, so when they see this
American that hops off a truck or out of a plane that's the same
color as them, you know, the first thing is they'll grab to your
wrist and they'll tap hands to their hands and they go "same-
same". It's like, yeah, okay, here's your food. Now we got to
go.

Toni Guinyard>> There are stories he wants to tell, but there
are also stories that will not be told.

Annette Kessler>> I know there are things that have gone on
that we shouldn't be privy to. We know about it just by
listening to the news and reading between the lines.

Edward Wandrick>> I really don't watch the news, but you know,
you hear about it. You know, we're losing another brother,
we're losing another sister as a soldier in service to their
country. Each day you really don't want to hear that.

Toni Guinyard>> Wandrick wants to hear that men and women in
the military have the support of the American people, but he
knows he won't hear that from everyone. But he'll keep writing
and teaching. He'll adjust to this new group of fifth graders
in his class and he'll face them with a renewed appreciation of
life and purpose.

Edward Wandrick>> You know, I have my list of things to do. I
get it done, good. If I don't, then, hey, I'm not beating
myself up over it. I have another day.

Val>> Edward Wandrick got a taste of dangerous duty long before
going to Iraq. He's a fourteen-year veteran and he served
during Operation Desert Storm when U.S. and coalition troops
forced Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait.

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Val>> The Bush administration has come under fire for starting
a war based on the notion that Saddam Hussein had weapons of
mass destruction. Well, as it turns out, the Clinton
administration also believed that Saddam had those weapons. We
learned that from Strobe Talbott who served as Deputy Secretary
of State under Warren Christopher. Talbott was in town recently
to address Town Hall Los Angeles and, while he was there, Philip
Bruce asked him what lies ahead in Iraq.

Philip Bruce>> Strobe Talbott, we are looking at this countdown
of turning over Iraq to the Iraqis and, as we get closer to
that, it seems to be getting more violent. What are your
thoughts about the practicality of being able to turn the
country back to the Iraqis and are we going in the right
direction on that plan?

Strobe Talbott>> There are two problems, Phil. One is that
time is running out to come up with a clear, convincing
practical plan on exactly what the turnover means. Just
watching it from Washington and listening very carefully to
what's being said, I don't know how this thing is going to work.
I don't know which Iraqis we're going to be turning power over
to. The other problem is the one that you mentioned which is
that, over the past couple of weeks, we have seen a very severe
deterioration in the overall security situation. So you've got
two problems compounding each other.

I can tell you that, as somebody who was in government and
seeing highly classified material for those number of years, I
thought that Saddam Hussein did have weapons of mass destruction
much further along than now appears to be the case. So I do not
fault the Bush administration for believing that Saddam Hussein
constituted a near-term threat in terms of weapons of mass
destruction, but where I do think the Bush administration made a
mistake in judgment was on the question of whether the United
States should get so far out ahead of the rest of the
international community and essentially conduct this war all by
ourselves.

Now, of course, we had the Brits with us and they are a
formidable military force, but so much of the international
community was opposed to this. That didn't matter very much for
the actual military operation a year ago. That thing went very,
very smoothly and it surprised even the commanders how quickly
the Saddam regime toppled. But now the chickens are coming home
to roost, in a way, which is to say that, when we really need
the international community with us is in what we had been
calling the post-war situation. Unfortunately, we can't really
call it post-war because we've still got a war going on there.

Philip Bruce>> Everyone keeps talking about getting the U.N.
involved, getting more people involved with this effort. Is
that possible now in light of our recent history with them?

Strobe Talbott>> Phil, I think it's very, very difficult, and
you're asking exactly the right question, but it's not
impossible. I think that, if President Bush worked quickly to
go to the United Nations Security Council and get a new
resolution authorizing the use of force, he would have the key
members of the Security Council, particularly the permanent
members of the Security Council, and that includes the French
who have been so troublesome to us in the past -- I think
probably the Russians as well -- would join in a new resolution
and we would be able to continue this necessary international
military presence in Iraq that must be in place after the June
30 turnover of sovereignty under a U.N. flag.

I'll tell you something kind of interesting. A lot of your
viewers might think that our own military who have performed so
heroically in Iraq would be opposed to having a U.N. flag flying
over the whole operation. I've talked to quite a few senior
officers of the U.S. military and they would not oppose it.
They would in fact welcome it. They would welcome it in part
because they think that their own troops are going to be safer,
because they know that the extent to which this has become
perceived in Iraq as an occupation with an American face. That
has drawn a lot of the venom from the frustrated, angry Iraqis
at American soldiers. If we can internationalize this thing, we
might be able to draw some of the venom out of the system there.

Philip Bruce>> Of course, the whole reason, the whole
rationale, for going into Iraq was in this post-9/11 world that
we've found ourselves in trying to fight terrorism. You point
out that you've thought that Saddam did have weapons of mass
destruction. Was it a legitimate extension of that to believe
that Saddam and Iraq could have been involved in any way in the
terrorist attack in the United States?

Strobe Talbott>> No, I don't think it was. I think that was a
mistaken connection. There is a lot of talk in the city I come
from, Washington, about connecting the dots. We're hearing that
phrase over and over again in connection with the 9/11
Commission that's now going on. I think that the Bush
administration connected two dots, which is to say Afghanistan,
Taliban, Al Qaeda on the one side, and Saddam Hussein, Iraq on
the other, and it turns out they were not correct in doing so.
There wasn't a connection between the two. In fact, the irony
is that Al Qaeda has shown up in Iraq since the United States
showed up in Iraq.

Philip Bruce>> One of the other things that's come out of the
9/11 Commission is this question of whether or not the Clinton
administration and the Bush administration underestimated the
threat of Osama Bin Laden and we've all seen the CIA tapes in
which we see what appears to be Osama Bin Laden in one of his
camps early on and making it appear that he was a possible
target. Do you think in hindsight that the Clinton
administration and, by extension, the Bush administration didn't
go after this guy hard enough earlier on?

Strobe Talbott>> Well, I think that's sort of self-evidently
true. Obviously, we would all be much better off if the United
States under whatever administration -- and it certainly could
have been under the Clinton administration -- had eliminated
Osama Bin Laden. We tried.

Philip Bruce>> I guess the question is --

Strobe Talbott>> -- but, Phil, let me just stay with that for a
second. We were aware in the Clinton administration that Osama
Bin Laden was a dreadful threat to the United States. Now our
awareness of that went up, say, between 1996 and 1998, but we
almost instantly established his culpability for the bombing
attacks on our embassies in East Africa in August 1998.

President Clinton, within a matter of days, ordered a cruise
missile attack against the Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan. We
didn't get him, but one thing that I think everybody needs to
keep in mind -- and it relates both to the Clinton
administration and the Bush administration -- is that, before
9/11 actually happened, there was nothing like either at the
leadership level or at the body politic level, a national will
to go to war, in effect, preemptively against this guy.

Philip Bruce>> But today, former Senator Bob Kerrey says when
you talk about the will not being there, he says that's the job
of the President to create that will.

Strobe Talbott>> I understand that and I can only speak on a
first-hand basis about the president I worked for, which was
Bill Clinton. I can tell you that Bill Clinton definitely saw
Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden as a major threat to the United
States and considerably stepped up methods of all kinds, overt
and covert, military and otherwise, to try to do something about
it. We simply didn't get him.

Philip Bruce>> Do you miss being in the fray as a diplomat now,
given all the things that are going on, or is it good to be on
the sidelines?

Strobe Talbott>> Well, I don't feel entirely on the sidelines.
I do feel somewhat in the fray, to be perfectly honest. I live
within the beltway. Brookings is a think tank, for sure. We do
go to our offices and our studies and try to think and write,
but we also get out there and mix it up in the political fray in
Washington. We do so on an independent and nonpartisan basis,
but I think we're very much in the thick of things and I'm
having the time of my life in this job.

Philip Bruce>> Nice to pull you outside the beltway for a
while. Strobe Talbott, thank you very much.

Strobe Talbott>> Thanks very much. Enjoyed it.

Val>> Strobe Talbott was a guest speaker at Town Hall Los
Angeles. If you'd like to find out more about Town Hall Los
Angeles or future speakers, you can give them a call or check
out their website.

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Val>> They call themselves America's 9-1-1. They're the first
ones called when the country faces a crisis and, when the U.S.
moved into Iraq, Marines at Camp Pendleton were among the first
in. Those forces have suffered some heavy casualties, but a few
years ago we saw first-hand why the Marines are so relentless on
the battlefield. We thought we'd open up the Life and Times
Vault and look back at one of the rites of passage at Camp
Pendleton. It's called "The Crucible" and our reporter is Saul
Gonzalez.

Saul Gonzalez>> Welcome to a world of combat, struggle, and
strife, a place where the Marine Corps tests the bodies, minds
and souls of its newest warriors. This is the world of The
Crucible.

Lt. Col. Carl Ferguson>> The Crucible is, in fact, the defining
moment of their training, fifty-four hours long, encompasses
obstacles and problems spread out over forty miles, and it ties
together all the aspects of training that they have endured over
the last twelve weeks and makes the common bond of making them
Marines.

Saul Gonzalez>> Three months ago with their arrival at boot
camp, these young men embarked on a strange journey. If they
can overcome the challenges of the next fifty-four hours of
combat exercises, they will finally reach their destination,
becoming United States Marines.

[Film Clip]

Saul Gonzalez>> The Crucible was developed not only to test the
metal of young recruits, but to keep the Corps' warrior culture
robust.

[Film Clip]

Saul Gonzalez>> It's a culture that is sometimes criticized by
outsiders for being out of touch with contemporary American
society.

Sgt. Anthony Spadaro>> Being a Marine, I would make it akin to
a religious devotion. I think we're the Jesuits of the
military. About a year ago, we were called extremists and our
commandant's retort back to this person was "Good. Look what
we're extreme about. We're extreme about honor, courage and
commitment." We demand that of Marines. What's wrong in a
society that may have that rife with societal problems, if we're
going to take some individuals and say, you know what, you're
going to be the standard bearers of this society and we're not
going to accept anything less than performance that's going to
adhere to our corps values of honor, courage and commitment.

Saul Gonzalez>> If The Crucible has a cardinal principle, it's
this. If these men are going to triumph not only in training,
but one day combat, they're going to have to do it not only as
individual lone warriors, but as a team. As the hours pass,
however, and the men's weariness grows, team spirit often wears
thin.

Pvt. Sergio Alvarado>> I'm really tired and a little frustrated
at the whole thing.

Saul Gonzalez>> Why?

Pvt. Sergio Alvarado>> The lack of team effort. The lack of,
you know -- like it is right now when you're just yelling out
ideas, myself included. I'm as guilty as the rest of them.
It's hard for me to follow them when I want to do my own thing
because I'm so used to leading. But like the senior drill
instructor said, if you want to be a good leader, you have to be
a good follower, so I just got to get used to it.

Saul Gonzalez>> In order to show their trust in each other
during The Crucible, the Marines must complete a deceptively
simple exercise called Anderson's Fall. Here, having faith in
your fellow recruits is paramount. For many of these men, this
kind of camaraderie is a new experience.

Pvt. Treshombie George>> When I come in here to the Marines, I
hoped it would give me a sense of belonging, a sense of, you
know, being something new, something that I hadn't felt before.

Saul Gonzalez>> Family?

Pvt. Treshombie George>> Yes sir, more or less.

[Film Clip]

Saul Gonzalez>> Of course, these recruits know that this
solidarity carries a price, namely the possibility that they
might be ordered one day to risk their lives and take the lives
of others.

Sgt. Anthony Spadaro>> Every Marine is a rifleman. That again
is one of our credos. That's why we make the recruits identify
with that rifle. We teach them that it's an extension of
yourself. And with that, you know, God forbid, but hopefully
one day they'll know how to use it, and confidently.

Pvt. Sergio Alvarado>> People tend to think that we come here
and they make us killing machines, these monsters who want to go
out and kill every person they see, but that's not true. I
mean, they teach you how to defend yourself and how to attack a
position if necessary if the event of war should happen to come
along. And if it comes along, I'm ready to lay down my life or
somebody else's life for my country and for the Marine Corps. I
wouldn't be happy about it. You know, nobody goes home happy
that they killed a man or killed ten men or killed a hundred
men. It's not something you're proud of. It's something you do
because you have to to preserve our way of life.

Saul Gonzalez>> As night falls, The Crucible provides no rest.
With only flares to illuminate the terrain, these men continue
their grueling combat exercises late into the evening.

[Film Clip]

Saul Gonzalez>> As the sun rises on the final hour of The
Crucible, the recruits face their final challenge, a long hard
climb with full packs up a hill called "The Reaper." Surveying
India Company's progress is General Charles Krulak, the outgoing
commandant of the United States Marine Corps and the man who
developed The Crucible as a response to a changing world.

Gen. Charles Krulak>> The Marine Corps believes that we're
moving into a very chaotic world, a world that is not getting
easier, but getting very much tougher. And in order to prepare
a young man or a woman to enter this chaotic environment,
particularly a battlefield environment, they need to have more
than just what we used to have and still do and that's this
physical, physical toughness. What we also need is a great
mental toughness and in fact a moral toughness, and that's kind
of what The Crucible and all that we're doing at boot camp now
is intended to achieve in these Marines.

Saul Gonzalez>> As they reach Reaper summit, these men complete
The Crucible and cross a threshold from civilian life to
becoming full-fledged Marines.

[Film Clip]

Saul Gonzalez>> At a ceremony, the men receive their Anchor and
Globe pins, the symbol of the Corps. For many, tears mixed with
camouflage paint.

Marine>> I'm shell-shocked. I just don't know what to say.

Saul Gonzalez>> One of the best experiences or --

Marine>> -- it's the best experiences I've ever had in my life.
It's the best feeling I've ever had.

Saul Gonzalez>> General Krulak promises these recruits will
continue the Marines' traditions into the twenty-first century.

Gen. Charles Krulak>> We are hard, we're lean and mean and
we're not changing that and, as a matter of fact, that's what
the American people expect. They expect one unit, and it is
written into the law. There will be one unit that is most ready
when the nation is least ready, and that's the United States
Marine Corps and they can take it to the bank.

Val>> The Camp Pendleton community and the neighboring city of
Oceanside are grieving the recent Marine casualties in Iraq, but
both civilians and soldiers say they are still firmly behind the
U.S. mission. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. For
everyone at Life and Times, thanks for watching. We'll see you
next time.

Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of
the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality
of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of
medicine, health, science and education.

Coverage of Town Hall Los Angeles speakers on Life and Times is
made possible by a grant from the Boeing Company.

Val>> Next time on Life and Times, he is the high roller who
wants what Indians already have and Larry Flynt is betting
voters will say yes to slot machines in Los Angeles County.

Larry Flynt>> There are a lot of people that don't like
gambling, but there's a hell of a lot more people that don't
want their taxes raised.

Val Zavala>> That's next time on Life and Times.