06/16/04

LC040616

Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times --

An insider's look at the killing fields of Los Angeles where
gang violence has made us America's murder capital.

>> Last night, a young brother got killed right here. When I
went to work last night, I talked to him when he was out here.
When I came home from work, they were wrapping his body up in a
body bag.

Val>> And then, what's better than eBay? How about one of
Southern California's biggest and oldest auctions? We'll go
there in search of undiscovered treasures.

All this and more straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times.

Life and times is made possible through the generous support of
the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality
of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of
medicine, health, science and education.

Val>> Hello, I'm Val Zavala reporting from the Crenshaw
district in South Los Angeles. This is a neighborhood that has
a lot to be proud of. It weathered the riots more than a decade
ago and has come back in many ways even better than before, but
one thing continues to threaten this and all the neighborhoods
in South Los Angeles: deadly gang violence.

A record number of gang killings across this area have made Los
Angeles America's murder capital. Tonight we give you an inside
look at the violence through the eyes of a former gang member
named "Apollo". He's taken a camera to places few of us ever
see. In fact, some of the images may disturb you. This is
Apollo's story as originally reported by the Channel One
Network.

[Film Clip]

John "Apollo" Payne>> My name is John Payne, but here I'm known
as Apollo. I'm a former gang leader and this is where I grew
up. It's called Baldwin Village, but we call it the jungle.
It's a working class neighborhood in South Central Los Angeles
where many people are trying to earn a living and raise their
families, but it's also a violent battlefield for rival gangs.

[Film Clip]

John "Apollo" Payne>> The jungle. It's only five miles from
Beverly Hills, but the murder rate in South Central Los Angeles
is double that of Bogotá, Columbia as hundreds of rival gangs
battle for territory.

>> yeah, we just lost two soldiers, but for all the aftermath
including the homies we just lost, they're going to lose about
ten or fifteen of their homies, so they really going to come up
short in the long run.

John "Apollo" Payne>> Though gang violence has fluctuated over
the years, living in this neighborhood, I've known dozens of
people who have been killed.

>> Last night, a young brother got killed right here. When I
went to work last night, I talked to him when he was out here.
When E came home from work, they were wrapping his body up in a
body bag.

John "Apollo" Payne>> As of the beginning of this year, the
murder rate in Los Angeles is over fifty percent higher than it
was just four years ago and it's not just gang members who are
being attacked. One child lost his life here last night and
three others were seriously wounded.

>> About 12:30 last night, all of a sudden we heard a hail of
bullets running out. The next thing you know when it stopped,
Beverly started screaming, "The baby's been hit, the baby's been
hit." I just yelled out the window for the neighbors to call 9-
1-1.

John "Apollo" Payne>> For many here, you're simply born into a
gang.

"Boo">> I eventually grew up in the gangs. I grew up in this.
I mean, I've been around gangs all my life since birth. You
know, I seen, done it and been in all. I been in juvenile hall
at the age of twelve.

John "Apollo" Payne>> This is "Boo". He knows about death all
too well. He lost both parents to the streets.

"Boo">> What's basically going on with the murders here now
today is just stupidity to me because a lot of us kids out here,
we just at war. We're out here just killing each other.

John "Apollo" Payne>> A large number of the wounded wind up
here at the Martin Luther King Drew trauma unit. Many of the
doctors sent to the war in Iraq trained here because the
military believes they were able to treat the same injuries they
would see in a war zone.

>> How many shots did you hear?

>> I heard like seven or eight.

>> You ever been shot before?

>> No.

John "Apollo" Payne>> What percentage of your cases is gang-
related?

Dr. Jose Varamontes>> I would say the majority maybe about
seventy-five percent of gunshot wound victims are gang-related.

John "Apollo" Payne>> So you've been here four years. Has
there been an increase in violence?

Dr. Jose Varamontes>> Definitely an increase in violence.

[Film Clip]

John "Apollo" Payne>> How many gunshot victims a month come
through here?

>> Sometimes we get up to three or four gunshots a day and
there have been times when we had three or four in one hour.

John "Apollo" Payne>> The staff that work here sees the worst
of the street wars. In the streets, bullets don't care how old
you are.

>> We're treating a six-month-old with a gunshot wound to the
head and a seven-year-old with a gunshot wound to the chest and
that one is in full arrest.

John "Apollo" Payne>> As I watched them bring in this young
boy, I soon realized it was Ishmail. I knew his family very
well.

[Film Clip]

John "Apollo" Payne>> At 1:02 a.m., Ishmail took his last
breath.

>> How do you explain this to the mothers?

>> I just pray I never get used to it.

Dr. Tara Wilson>> Now this just absolutely makes no sense. I
can't imagine anything somebody could have done to you that you
would want to kill an eight-year-old kid. He has two very large
holes in his body because somebody's mad. He went to school
today and he went to sleep tonight and he didn't wake up.

Val>> We've just heard Apollo tell us why so many young people
get caught up in gangs. There is another side of the story as
well. The story of victims, some guilty, some innocent, but all
of them facing the same fate. Apollo continues his look at the
killing fields of Los Angeles and, once again, you may find some
images disturbing.

John "Apollo" Payne>> For many people in the jungle, going to
funerals are a part of everyday life. Sometimes there are even
two funerals a week. This young man's name is Marcell. He was
only nineteen when he got killed in the gang war.

Twana Franklin>> This is the last time that he was alive here.
They would not tell me the exact amount of times he was shot,
but they did tell me that it was over five times.

John "Apollo" Payne>> So the question is, why would you want to
be in a gang when it's pretty clear that it often leads to jail
or death? Even little kids in my neighborhood will tell you
that they don't find it appealing.

>> I just don't want to get put in the gang.

>> I just don't want to be a victim.

>> I just don't want to get killed.

John "Apollo" Payne>> I was just like them at that age, but as
I got older, I joined a gang called the Bloods. I wanted to be
a part of something and I wanted protection. This is one of the
keys to understanding a gang. The fear of being the next victim
is what motivates many to join. For example, this is the story
of Keith, also known as "Ace".

Terri Birdsong-Hooper>> He was younger and he wasn't a gang
member or anything. He had the fellows from the streets on one
side, then he had the police on the other side. He was like all
I want to do is play basketball and ride my bike. There was a
lot on him, you know, which way was he going to turn?

John "Apollo" Payne>> Ace struggled to avoid gang life and then
something happened.

Larry Hooper>> Keith and some of his friends were coming out of
a mini-mart over in the jungle and he was hit by three bullets.

John "Apollo" Payne>> Ace was simply at the wrong place at the
wrong time when he was shot.

Larry Hooper>> He was afraid. He would never admit he was
scared, but I think that's why he started gangbanging then
because of --

Terri Birdsong-Hooper>> -- for the protection.

Larry Hooper>> For the protection.

John "Apollo" Payne>> When Ace recovered, he joined a gang.
You might think that someone who was a victim of gang violence
would want nothing to do with gangs, but in the area where there
are many gangs, some people join for the sense of protection
because, if something happens to them, the gang will retaliate.

"Boo">> There'd be more shootings, you know, more combat.
That's what starts the wars when you shoot somebody they love,
somebody they really respect, somebody they feel highly of.

John "Apollo" Payne>> But in Ace's case, joining a gang didn't
keep him safe.

>> Big Ace, he had basketball talent, everything. He had
scholarships to go to college, but he got caught up in the
street life.

Terri Birdsong-Hooper>> I thank God for the gift that he
allowed me to share and there's a lot of people that loved him.
He was loved.

>> Most parents want their kids to die after they're dead and
gone and old age and things like that, but in this neighborhood,
it's not like that.

John "Apollo" Payne>> Joining a gang didn't protect me either.
Many years ago, I was shot in the chin right here, but that
didn't stop me either. But after watching more of my friends
die or wind up in jail, I knew change had to come. Now I work
to help others get out of gang life and I'm not the only one.

"O.B.">> You all look like victims. You almost look like
you're waiting to get shot, waiting to get blown away. You
waiting your turn? If you're waiting your turn, you're out
there doing your thing, then go on and do your mama a favor and
buy yourself a suit.

John "Apollo" Payne>> "O.B.", a former gang member, warns
younger gang members at funerals that they're on the wrong path.

"O.B.">> You could change your dress code, homie, right now. I
don't catch no bullet. You walking down the street going to
school, somebody'll kill you. You going to the 7-11 to get some
hot chocolate for your mama, and get killed because you got on
the wrong attire, man. They driving down the street looking for
you. Soon as they see you, you're whole lifestyle is running
from a bullet. Man, you don't want to do that. If you going to
do that, then join the army.

[Film Clip]

John "Apollo" Payne>> The larger community is joining in now
too, demanding an end to the violence. Protests like these have
become common. The Los Angeles Police Department has been
meeting with community leaders like this event here at my
church.

>> This is part of a new movement.

John "Apollo" Payne>> And the LAPD has launched a new
community-based anti-gang program. So far in 2003, gang
violence has dropped twenty-five percent. Four months in
declining murder rates isn't long enough to declare a victory
over gang violence, but we all hope it's a beginning.

Val>> These stories were told by someone who lived the life of
a gang member. His street name, as we mentioned, is "Apollo",
but his real name is John Payne. We met John at the Lucy
Florence Coffee House in Leimert Park to find out what's
happened since he produced those stories. Apollo, you said you
were a gang member. How intense a gang member were you?
Because I know there's like really hard-core gangbangers and
then there are others that are not quite so violent. What was
your experience?

John Payne>> My experience was different. You know, I started
at an early age. I was about eight and a half or nine years
old. I remember we were living in Aliso Village when I first
heard the name of Terry Goodall.

Val>> And what's that name?

John Payne>> He was one of the founders of the Blood gang.
What happened is, we moved from Aliso Village and I moved to the
twenties and I got to know a lot of them Bloods and I was still
hearing Terry Goodall, Terry Goodall. I always heard his name.
Then we moved over in Terry's neighborhood and I really heard
his name and that made me want to be a part of a gang right
there.

Val>> And what kind of crimes did you do? Were they petty or
were they serious?

John Payne>> All my crimes were possession of firearms and
drugs. No murders, no theft or anything like that.

Val>> But you could have gotten into that if you had stayed
longer. What saved you?

John Payne>> Well, what saved me was that I had a family
structure. I was in church, I was working and I was out
sneaking. Stevie Wonder came out with a record, "Sneaking out
the back door hanging out with these hoodlum friends of mine".
We were living in the jungle and we were the only one that had a
back door at that time. Well, maybe a few more. That song was
made for me. I was literally doing it.

Val>> And you were literally sneaking out the back door. So
that song actually changed your life?

John Payne>> No, it didn't change my life, but what it did it
motivated me to run out the back door more.

Val>> Oh, I see. So, when you look at gang kids now, you know,
we have a relatively new police chief that says that he's really
going to crack down on gangs. Is it something that the police
can actually do or is it something that's out of their control?
Is it churches, parents, schools, after-school programs? What
do you think can really get rid of this problem?

John Payne>> Well, I think Chief Bratton has put a dent in it
already, him and Sheriff Baca. They've been doing raids and
they've been supporting the "Stop the Killing" rallies that's
been held at different churches. But in the long-term, it's
going to take the parents. It's going to take these guys that
are in prison to say, hey, no more. No more black crime on
black crime, brown crime on brown crime. So it's going to have
to come from the parents of these kids to say I don't want my
sons or my daughters to grow up like I did.

Val>> But sometimes the parents feel helpless. I mean, you
know, they're working hard or they're lacking resources,
psychological, financial, everything, to keep their kid out of
trouble, and the kid comes under the influence of gangs. What
are parents to do?

John Payne>> When it started, I mean, the influence was hip-
hop, but they started this gangster rap and, when gangster rap
hit, everybody became a gang member. So instead of having one
million, you have five million because all this negative music
is around just destroying our youth.

Val>> Oh, so you think this gangster rap really has a negative
effect on kids?

John Payne>> Oh, man, it's just like crack cocaine.

Val>> Really? That bad?

John Payne>> It's deep, but it's big money.

Val>> So if you could get rid of one thing, what would it be?

John Payne>> Bring back hip-hop and take out gangster rap.

Val>> Now when I think of the human species ten thousand years
old, for eight or nine thousand of it, we were hunters,
gatherers, you know, violence and physical survival was
dependent on being able to fight. So when I look at gang kids,
I think, well, in terms of our evolutionary biology, they would
be the ones that would survive more than, you know, the educated
PhD's, so is this just part of our nature?

John Payne>> Yes. To answer why is it part of our nature, it's
because of -- I think it's because of our nature -- that's a
deep question.

Val>> I know it is because we have to ask is it something
that's so ingrained in human nature that we just simply have to
wait for many more years for it to change? What's something
that can change right now, this generation?

John Payne>> It can change, but it's going to take the family
structure to change it. You know, just thinking back, I
remember I had a picnic at my house with maybe four hundred or
five hundred gang members around and they were chanting their
neighborhoods. Then I think about eight thousand years ago,
there were tribes. So you can compare with that, but we've come
so far as a people now that I think it's time for the government
to put a hand in this and say enough is enough because now
innocent kids are getting killed. It's not just, you know,
gangbanger on gangbanger. A woman just got killed and her kid
is in the hospital, so it's really bad.

Val>> So are you still seeing the kinds of shootings and
victims that you reported on in the pieces? You said things
have gotten a little better with Bratton, but are you still
seeing a lot of innocent people getting killed?

John Payne>> Yeah, yeah. We're still seeing that.

Val>> So what do you say to the people around you? How are you
trying to change things?

John Payne>> Well, I take time out. I talk to the kids. I
take them places. We were at Jim Brown's house last night. The
American I Can program has been a great help with my career and
Paul Steuben's career because Jim has been like a big brother to
us. I remember when I first started out, Senator Diane Watson
was a great support for me and Paul. Without Jim Brown and the
senator, I don't know whether or not I would have made it.

Val>> Now you have a young son whom you're welcome to introduce
us to. Why don't you come over here, Dante? Now what do you
tell your young boy because he's growing up in this area?

John Payne>> Why don't you ask him?

Val>> Dante, do you think you're going to stay out of trouble
when you grow up? Is it hard to stay out of trouble these days?

Dante>> No.

Val>> No? Why not?

Dante>> Because if you have your mind set to certain things,
you just follow it.

Val>> Is your mind set on doing well in school and getting a
good job, maybe going to college?

Dante>> Yes.

Val>> Good for you. Thank you so much. Nice meeting you.

Dante>> Nice meeting you too.

Val>> thank you very much, John Payne, also known as "Apollo".
We really appreciate your insight into this community.

Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and
Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, transcripts
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and Times".

Val>> We've told you about the tragic side of life in Los
Angeles, but we wouldn't want to ignore the many good people and
things that happen, things that bring a smile to your face. So
how about going to a place where you can get a real bargain,
maybe even come across an undiscovered antique treasure? Philip
Bruce says a lot of people have already discovered one.

[Film Clip]

Philip Bruce>> For scores of bargain hunters, there is no
sweeter sound than this. Welcome to the granddaddy of Southern
California auctions, a place where you can bid on an antique
clock, a bust of Napoleon or maybe just a handful of stuff you
can figure out later.

[Film Clip]

Philip Bruce>> This is the A. N. Abell Auction Company, a
family business that's been moving merchandise for the better
part of eighty years. Every Thursday, the warehouse here in the
city of Commerce becomes a showplace for treasures in need of
new homes.

Philip Bruce>> So you came here looking for a bargain or
anything specific?

>> A bargain.

Philip Bruce>> What would be a bargain for you?

>> Well, good things and a good price.

Philip Bruce>> Imagine your entire block is throwing a yard
sale, multiply that by a thousand, and you get some idea of what
this place is like. Since the auction is open to everybody, you
never know who's going to show up.

Bruce Smart>> Actually, I've been educated to be an engineer
and things didn't work out too well the last couple of years
because of the economy. I was fortunate enough to be introduced
to a friend of mine who has been doing Asian art for probably
about three years. So this has been an incredible experience
for me.

Philip Bruce>> Bruce Smart is one of many professional dealers
who buy things here to sell later at their own shops. He's
learned not to let his personal tastes get in the way of a good
deal. And these chairs are a prime example.

Philip Bruce>> Now if you came here as an engineer and not as a
trader or not as somebody who's in the business of selling this
stuff, would you buy those pink chairs for yourself?

Bruce Smart>> absolutely not.

Philip Bruce>> But back at his shop in San Diego, Bruce knows
the chairs could bring top dollar, well over what they'll go for
here.

Bruce Smart>> I just saw a guy buy a handful of wooden spears.
Isn't that amazing? I personally wouldn't have bought that, but
it's going to make a nice showpiece for somebody in their home.

[Film Clip]

Barry Abell>> I love it. I mean, it's something that I grew up
with ever since I was a child. I'm now in my mid-50's.

Philip Bruce>> It all started with Barry's grandfather back in
1916. That's him on the left and that's Barry on the right.
How did the family get into this business?

Barry Abell>> My grandfather came from Russia and he actually
saw a cousin and her husband was in the used furniture business.
He wound up making him an offer for the used furniture business
and then, in 1916, he turned it into an auction company. In
fact, the first name of our company was Liberty Auction Company
because it was right after World War I.

Philip Bruce>> There is a method to this madness. The small
cheap stuff moves early. People bid on it by the box. Pots and
pans, books, old bottles, you name it, they sell it. As the day
progresses, they'll move down to the furniture and the art.
Most of it comes from estate sales. So how do you know what
you're getting? You come to the preview on Wednesday, the day
before the auction, when diehard shoppers such as Susan Zatarain
kick the tires on their potential purchases.

Susan Zatarain>> You can buy a painting here that's in
absolutely filthy, horrible condition and have it restored.
That happens a lot, but usually when you get a really good deal
on something, it's because other people don't see it or maybe
they see something that you don't see. But whenever you buy at
auction, you buy as-is, where-is, and with all faults, and the
buyer takes full responsibility for it.

Philip Bruce>> The day before this auction, Val went to the
preview and got a hands-on tour from Don Shearson, a veteran
auctioneer and family partner in the Abell Auction Company.

Don Shearson>> Val, right here is a dining set made by Haywood
Wakefield. It's from the 60's.

Val>> Very nice.

Don Shearson>> Very popular, modern furniture, very popular
today.

Val>> It's in good shape.

Don Shearson>> It's in pretty good shape. The upholstery might
need a little sprucing up.

Val>> But it's not scratched.

Don Shearson>> No. Otherwise, the wood is in real good shape.
A set like this today would probably bring somewhere around
$1500, $2000 maybe.

Val>> This is amazing.

Don Shearson>> Quite unusual, I think.

Val>> It's heavy.

Don Shearson>> (Laughter) Can you imagine putting that on your
head?

Val>> A Japanese --

Don Shearson>> -- I don't think so.

Val>> That's incredible. Japanese ornamental helmet. But,
again, you may or may not know how old this is? Information
doesn't come along with these items necessarily?

Don Shearson>> Well, we always say buyer beware.

Val>> Now I notice you have a lot of books here. Some of these
might be really old, first editions or something?

Don Shearson>> Right. There could be. We sell the books as a
library. We usually have a library such as this.

Val>> Oh, so you can't pick and choose? You've got to buy the
whole thing?

Don Shearson>> No, no. You buy the whole kit and caboodle.

Val>> So if you see one that's really valuable, you've got to
buy it all.

Don Shearson>> Right, right. A lot of the books are bought by
dealers.

Val>> Now this is a fun little piece here.

Don Shearson>> Oh, yeah, look at this. This is an antique
child's potty seat.

Val>> Potty seat (laughter).

Don Shearson>> This is probably turn of the century maybe.

Val>> Now whose famous tush once sat here? (laughter) Do you
watch the "Antiques Roadshow"? (laughter) You can confess.

Don Shearson>> I wouldn't believe everything you see.

Val>> Guilty pleasure?

Don Shearson>> Don't believe everything you read nor everything
you see, all right?

Val>> It doesn't happen that often that people walk in with --

Don Shearson>> -- no comment (laughter).

[Film Clip]

Philip Bruce>> Back to the auction and we find that our old
friend, Bruce Smart, and his business partner, Chia Li Huong,
have passed on the pink chairs, but they did find another
treasure for their San Diego antique shop.

Chia Li Huong>> Oh, I bought a 1940's Japanese screen and I
think I overpaid a little bit, but I think the piece is really
beautiful. I really like it for my collection.

Philip Bruce>> Some dealers aren't as candid about shopping
here. They don't want you to know where they get their stuff.
But then there are the regular people, shoppers who buy for
themselves. Gloria Thomas got a box of jewelry for $70 and a
box of boxes for $15. Did you get a good deal today?

Gloria Thomas>> Oh, yeah. I'm really happy. I'm really happy
with the boxes and the jewelry. I got my $70 for myself and
whatever I sell on the other, it pays for what I bought for
myself.

Philip Bruce>> And Gloria just may have gotten the bargain of
the day, a new headboard for her bed. How much did you pay for
that?

Gloria Thomas>> One dollar, one dollar, and I'm really happy
with it. I'm going to cover the fabric because it doesn't match
mine, but I love the headboard itself. At that price, I got to
love it (laughter).

Val>> The Abell family started their auction business here in
South Los Angeles, but moved to the city of Commerce after their
original warehouse was gutted during the Los Angeles riots.
That's the only thing that's changed and now, as the fourth
generation of family moves into the auction pit, they're looking
forward to another eighty years of doing business. That's our
program. Reporting from the Crenshaw district in South Los
Angeles, I'm Val Zavala. For everyone at Life and Times, thanks
for watching.

Life and times was made possible through the generous support of
the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality
of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of
medicine, health, science and education.

Val>> Next time on Life and Times, we teach children about the
value of learning to read, but in some neighborhoods there are
few places to get books.

>> We need people to say to Borders, to Barnes & Nobles, to
Duttons, to Martinez Books and others that come into these
communities that we are hungry for books. We will buy the
books.

Val>> That's next time on Life and Times.