06/30/04

LC040630

Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times --

California's stake in Iraq. Who has the most to gain? We'll hear from a few of them.

Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini>> I do look forward, yes. I might be sounding like I'm optimistic a little bit, but again, this is better than before. We're going to have to take this freedom and this democracy the way it's been offered to us.

Val>> And then, it's a place of last resort for ex-gang members, but it's the first step toward a new life for one young man.

All that and more straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times.

Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education.

Val>> What happens next in Iraq? That's the obvious question now that the United States has handed over the reins of power to the new Iraqi government. The future seems up for grabs, but among the local Iraqi community, there's no shortage of optimism. As Toni Guinyard reports, they're a group of Southern Californians with a big stake in Iraq's future.

Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini>> I think the future is bright. We're going to take this democracy and we're going to have to make it work.

Toni Guinyard>> Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini is one of the thousands of Iraqi ex-patriots now living in Southern California, one of many forced to escape the violence of the Saddam Hussein regime, and he's now welcoming the beginning of a new chapter in Iraq's history.

Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini>> Iraq is paying a great deal of a price for this democracy and freedom. We understand that. Every nation in this earth had to go through millions of changes before this major inside-out, upside-down of regime, of a new system.

Toni Guinyard>> Al-Hussaini came to the United States in 1982, two years after his brothers were arrested by the Bath regime.

Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini>> I mean, I lost two brothers. Saddam killed two of my brothers. My father died as a result of a great deal of depression at the death of my brothers.

Toni Guinyard>> We first met the San Dimas resident in 2003, well after the United States launched Operation Iraqi Freedom. A lot of changes have taken place since then, changes Iraqis could once only dream of.

>> "We welcome Iraq to take its rightful place in quality and honor among the free nations of the world."

Toni Guinyard>> With the transfer of power to the interim Iraqi government, Al-Hussaini, like so many other Iraqi Americans, dares to have hope for the future of Iraq.

Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini>> I don't think the Iraqi people will tolerate any more imposing of regimes. I mean, that's not going to happen. We're going to hold the Bush administration accountable for their promises. They said we're going to provide, you know, freedom and democracy and a new system.

Toni Guinyard>> But democracy is a foreign concept in Iraq. Adjusting to the idea of equality after decades of rule under dictator Saddam Hussein will take some time and patience.

Salah Jaffer>> A total power being turned to the government without real practice of democracy is going to be a chaos.

Toni Guinyard>> Ontario resident, Salah Jaffer, is quick to warn of potential problems and more violence. He believes democracy cannot be achieved unless United States forces remain in Iraq.

Salah Jaffer>> I want them to stay there to show us and guide us on this new path. It's true they show us the path and we have to walk it, but they have to guide us through that path because they have the experience. We don't.

Toni Guinyard>> From inside his small home office, this self-described poet and politician connects with his homeland by way of the internet. He spends hour after hour online in chat rooms. The topic is the transfer of sovereignty and what may happen next. Here he is able to share his opinions and his concerns. His faith of democracy in Iraq is tempered by the inability to break through the wall of suspicion built up after years of seeing the danger that comes with power under a dictator.

Salah Jaffer>> How are we going to know in the future that this total power which is going to be given to our future government will not turn against us in a new form just like Saddam Hussein? How do we know that? The reality is that we didn't practice freedom. We don't know the democratic way exactly.

Toni Guinyard>> Salah Jaffer and Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini, two men straddling two worlds trying to put into words the experience of being outside Iraq while praying for the safety of those still inside. Al-Hussaini was visiting Iraq when Saddam Hussein was captured in December of 2003. He even posed for photographs with Ibrahim Jaafari, a man appointed as one of two vice presidents of the interim Iraqi government. But despite this experience, despite seeing his relatives for the first time in such a long time, the visit was bittersweet.

Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini>> Here I am, when I went there to Iraq for the first time after twenty-three years living in the States. As soon as I cross the border, I looked and I said, you know, it's kind of odd and awkward to see my beloved -- you know, naturalized United States of America -- occupy my beloved birth country of Iraq. That's kind of awkward as an American put in that position.

Toni Guinyard>> Jaffer has not returned since he left for good in 1992.

Salah Jaffer>> My leader said your country is not the one who you are born with. Your country is the one who welcomed you and you lived in peace in it and this is the country which welcomed me and I live in peace in it.

Toni Guinyard>> They have found peace in the United States, but there is an expectation the people of Iraq will face additional violence during the transition to this new form of government and new way of life.

Salah Jaffer>> What I see in the Middle East is just like domino stones. Saddam falls and the rest are falling after him. All the regimes in all Middle East from Iraq to Iran, all that has to be changed.

Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini>> Democracy is something really odd for them. You know, they don't understand this democracy. I think who's going to oppose this democracy and this new freedom and new Iraq is really the surrounding other countries.

Salah Jaffer>> The countries around us don't want that to happen. The remaining of Bath regime, they don't want that to happen.

Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini>> Democracy is a process. It's going to take a while for us to establish and for people to adopt democracy. I'm not saying that it's going to be easy. I don't think the violence will stop, but we're going to have to fight. We're going to have to fight the violence. We're going to have to kick those terrorist organizations from Iraq.

Toni Guinyard>> Interim Iraqi Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi, has promised to target and crush Iraq's enemies. Jaffer believes jailed Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein, is the biggest threat and the greatest danger.

Salah Jaffer>> He is a cancer cell in Iraqi land, bodies and Iraqi people. It has to be removed and totally and forever. I know here as I am living in this country that we don't agree with violence, but in our thoughts of school back there, violence shouldn't be stopped with no violence. You have to put criminals in jails and you have to stop them. Those who deserve to be killed, we have to kill them.

Toni Guinyard>> A harsh, yet honest opinion, but it's one of many being expressed by ex-patriots living in Southern California. They are Iraqi Americans who want nothing more than to share the lessons of democracy with their friends and families back home.

Basam Ridha Al-Hussaini>> I do look forward, yes. I might be sounding optimistic a little bit, but again, this is better than before. We're going to have to take this freedom and this democracy the way it's being offered to us.

Salah Jaffer>> We'll give a chance to the elected government as the United States promised us and I know and I can see, I can envision it, we will not have what we dreamed. We have a long, long term of work all together.

Val>> Southern California has one of the largest Iraqi communities in the United States. They came here nearly twenty years ago just as Saddam Hussein was tightening his grip on their homeland.

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Val>> When the war broke out in Iraq, the Los Angeles Times dispatched a small army of people to cover it. Tony Perry was among them. He reported on some of the worst fighting, much of it around the town of Fallujah. Tony's stories provided a unique look at the Iraqi people and at our troops on the ground. Now he's back home and we get Tony's view of a country that is still a very dangerous place. Tony Perry, you spent almost three months in Iraq and you had been there a year or so earlier. Tell us, what were your personal experiences? What is your impression of life there, of the prospect for success, or rebuilding?

Tony Perry>> Well, when you're an imbedded reporter, you move with the troops, you live with the troops, you eat what they eat and I did that again this time. We were in a number of locations and interacted the best we could with the Iraqi. I guess my sense this time I thought all of these things are a mix of hopefulness and tragedy. That was true a year ago and it's true now. This time, I think the percentage of tragedy vis-à-vis hopefulness is greater.

Val>> What did you see there that gave you that impression?

Tony Perry>> Well, I think the sense of what could be happening, what could be happening. I mean, the improvements for the life of the average Iraqi could be happening if the United States and the other western powers weren't bogged down with an insurgency. You cannot move from point A to point B in Iraq without an armed convoy that slows everything down.

At one point, we took what should have been a forty-five minute drive, if you will, from one place to another. It took six hours because you have to go a circuitous route. You have to have security. That can't be. I mean, it's like being on a planet where the gravity is a hundred times what it is on earth. Every step is dangerous.

Val>> So that's part of the reason why, you know, Americans can't understand why can't they build that school or fix the electricity?

Tony Perry>> Exactly. I mean, it's all sort of no-brainer stuff, the stuff we do every day in this country and we've got all sorts of expertise. We can build schools morning, noon and night. But if you can't get in to make your estimate of what it's going to take to build the school and you can't hire people to go do it because they'll get killed, it bogs things down.

Now in Fallujah, for example, what the Marine Corps and the Navy Seabees, the construction unit, are going to end up doing is hiring Iraqi contractors to go in and make the estimates and hire people. That's half a solution because you're going to have competency problems and, frankly, you're going to have thievery problems. But it's at least half a solution, but, boy, it isn't nearly as good as if the Seabees could roll in there and start building schools. That's the tragedy, what could be happening. The power that could be turned on, the water that could be purified, the crops that could be taken to market that just can't happen.

That's why the Iraqis have got to step up. They have got to take care of the insurgency. They've got to find these people, bring them to justice, and hundreds of people in one degree or another cooperating with the United States in the rebuilding program have been murdered. How do you get a nation on its feet if anyone who steps forward and shows leadership gets murdered? That's the challenge and that is the tragedy. Now I think long-term it can still happen. I'm not as pessimistic as some people, but it's going to take a lot of time and a lot of money and it's going to take lives, both Iraqi lives and American lives. Is it worth it? Well, that's a political question, but I think it is doable over the long run.

Val>> Now you said you ate with the troops, you lived with the troops. Physically, what kind of situation was it? Were you in tents?

Tony Perry>> Sometimes we were in tents, other times in captured, if you will, areas. At one point, we were actually at a resort that used to be a fancy place for Saddam's Bathist party leaders to take their children to. But for most of the time, I was living along with the troops at the command post of the Second Battalion First Regiment right on the edge of Fallujah where the fighting was going on. The Marines took over what was essentially welfare housing. We paid all of the residents to flee essentially.

Val>> So you paid the people to leave and then you lived there?

Tony Perry>> Then we lived in it. It was essentially urban camping. There was no water, no lights, there were rats everywhere. There was something inside the walls, some creature that was scratching at night trying to get me (laughter), but from this vantage point, we could see all the battles. We could stand on the roof and see three different battles. We could see the air power brought in. Every night we could watch the air strikes. Then we were in a position to drive out in Humvees and convoys to actually be with the various companies that were doing the daily fight. It was an excellent vantage point for the command post and for me, frankly.

Val>> So you got to specifically go through a lot. I mean, how long do you go without taking a shower? I mean, do you just put up with all that?

Tony Perry>> Yeah, pretty much everybody stinks, so you don't really notice it (laughter). Yeah, you go weeks without showering. The Marines seem to do it very well. I don't know how they shave every day and they look terrific. I think that's why they shave their hair off. They don't have to worry about their hair. That far, I would not go.

Val>> But are there kind of funny things because in the middle of a war and so forth, a lot of funny things can happen?

Tony Perry>> Well, for example, at this hovel we were living in, you had these chickens and roosters that would crow morning, noon and night. You would have these cats that would come in and try and steal things, very bold, wild cats. Yeah, life goes on even in a war zone in an odd paradoxical kind of way.

Val>> And how about some of the particular soldiers and personalities you got to know? Does anyone stand out?

Tony Perry>> Oh, yeah. I mean, you get to know a lot of them. The top enlisted man, Randall Carter, a very tough man who absolutely forbade any of the Marines to wear do-rags on their heads or t-shirts or roll up their sleeves. I just thought he was an incredible hard-nose, but then you realize that, over a period of time, what he's doing. He's maintaining the discipline of the group. And the commanding officer, Greg Olsen, the man commanding combat troops. In his off-hours, he was reading Shakespeare. He brought with him a tome about Shakespeare's historic plays and how they reflect war. I met an artillery officer who is essentially a jazz pianist. His sensibilities are that of a jazz pianist, but his chosen profession is that of a war fighter (laughter). You meet very interesting people.

Val>> Would you go back again?

Tony Perry>> Oh, absolutely, absolutely. An American presence has always gone with the troops into war zones, always.

Val>> And you had access that you needed?

Tony Perry>> Absolutely. You're part of the story. The imbedded reporters aren't the whole story. You couldn't cover a war even what we have now only with reporters imbedded with the troops. That wouldn't be the way to do it. But we're part of the story and you need imbedded reporters, you need people that aren't imbedded, you need people in Baghdad and Washington to put it all together, absolutely. The American press, though, has always gone with the reporters, always gone with the troops into war zones. Unhappily so, in Vietnam and World War I, there was a lot of controversy. When this nation sends its sons and daughters to war, if the press doesn't go with them, what exactly are we in business for?

Val>> Tony, thank you for taking the risk and bringing us the stories back. We really appreciate it.

Tony Perry>> My pleasure.

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Val>> Los Angeles has its own war zones where people have to live in fear and with good reason. One of those places is a stretch of Boyle Heights in East Los Angeles. Not long ago, a thirty-four year old man was gunned down as he was trying to paint over gang graffiti on a storefront. The victim was one of many former gang members who have turned their lives around by trying to make their neighborhood a better place. They're all shocked by this recent tragedy, but the good news is that this special group headed by a Catholic priest is vowing to press on with its work.

>> "Homeboy Industries, how may I help you?"

Father Gregory Boyle>> Homeboy Industries is sort of a gang rehab center where nearly a thousand gang members a month from all over Los Angeles County show up here looking for job placement, tattoo removal, counseling. We run five businesses from the silkscreen to graffiti removal to merchandising where enemy gang members work side by side with each other.

Carlos Nieto>> My name is Carlos Nieto. I'm currently Community Service Supervisor, but I also help out with miscellaneous and all the above. I just help out with whatever.

Father Gregory Boyle>> Well, I first came here to be pastor of the poorest parish in the city at Delores Mission from 1986 to 1992. While I was there, you start to face the gang reality. I buried my first kid killed because of gang violence in 1988. I buried my 121st kid killed three weeks ago.

The Homeboy Industries was born really because we couldn't find enough employers willing to hire formerly gang involved youths, so what we did was start to create our own businesses so that we could create our own opportunities. The idea was that kids in this community planned their funerals, not their futures.

Carlos Nieto>> My life before I came to Homeboy was really just worrying about today. I didn't think about tomorrow. I would get money today and I would spend it today because I didn't know if tomorrow would ever come. My dad, you know, was involved with drugs and he went to a rehab when I was at a young age around eleven or twelve. I went to go stay with my aunt and, during this whole time, I was just waiting for my father to get out so we could live the family life. You know, have the white picket fence, you know, the whole family thing.

He got out and I waited two and a half years to be with him. The day he got out, I spent the day with him and the next day he got arrested. He was selling drugs, he was using again. So two and a half years of waiting for him, you know, I was let down. Then I moved with my mother and I don't know my mom. She left when I was two years old. She tried to treat me like she knew me and it was very weird. I didn't like it, so I ran away. I hit the streets. I was at my breaking point. I was willing to do anything, you know? I had a lot of anger and rage.

When I got into my gang, I thought it was a way to meet girls. I started doing anything, trying to prove to them how much loyalty I had for them. I started stealing cars, assaulting people. Before I knew it, I got arrested for a strong-arm robbery and assault with a weapon. They convicted me and ended up sentencing me to four years in state prison. I guess what I would do with all the hurt and rage, instead of crying, I'd just hold it in. So when I would get mad at somebody for, say, stepping on my shoes, I would be mad at him for everything that my dad did to me. My anger, I couldn't control it.

The tattoos that I would get, in some way, it would release the pain I would have. It would calm me down, if that kind of makes sense. The more pain I would get, the more calmer I would be. It's kind of hard to explain. I guess I was kind of losing my mind for a minute, you know?

Father Gregory Boyle>> When Carlos came in alarmingly covered in tattoos, including two big devil's horns on his forehead, and he's saying, gee, I'm having a hard time finding a job, I'm saying, well, let's put our heads together on this one. Yeah, who would hire him? He's begun working here. He's a terrific human being and a great worker.

[Film Clip]

Carlos Nieto>> The first thing I told Father G was, gee, I can't get a job, man. No one wants to hire me. He goes, son, have you seen yourself? I started laughing and said, I know, G, I put a lot of stuff on my body. He goes, first things first, and he says, come on, son, I'm going to get you hooked up with the tattoo removal and he went and got the appointment. I guess he seen something in me that other people wouldn't see. I guess that's hope for the future.

[Film Clip]

Father Gregory Boyle>> I sent him to the silkscreen and then I called the next day and said to the receptionist to bring that new guy to the phone. I said, how's it feel to be working? He said it feels proper. I'm holding my head up high. In fact, I'm like that guy on the commercial that walks up to strangers and says "I just lowered my cholesterol". That was me. I go I'm not sure what you mean and he said, well, on the bus home all by myself, all tired. I couldn't help myself and I kept turning to people on the bus and saying "I'm just coming back from my first day at work. Just got back from work." It doesn't get better than that. You know, to be able to have provided that moment for that kid is what this place is about.

Carlos Nieto>> Father G is the man. He's my savior. He's talking about giving me the chance. He's like the dad I would always have wanted, you know? He's my dad, my mother, my friend. I could tell him anything, you know? Without him today, I would be in jail. I wouldn't be nothing that I am today without him.

You know, at first I was thinking that, if I die, who would remember me? I mean, in a way, I want people to remember me, not all this glory Carlos Nieto Day or something. That would be cool, but I want people just to know that a guy who came from nothing and came from the gutter just worked his way up. Even though people doubted him and put him down and said he'll never make it and he'd never be nothing but a gang member and jobless and bald-headed and nobody. Now I'm still bald-headed, but now I'm somebody, you know? I'm somebody and that's all because of G. It's all because of Father G.

Val>> Until now, the Homeboy program had never lost a worker to violence, but the young men who work for Homeboy are courageously remaining on the streets. And Father Boyle who runs the program is showing his own form of personal courage. He's been diagnosed with leukemia. So far, he's winning the battle. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. For everyone at Life and Times, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education.

Val>> Next time on Life and Times, he was a medic in Vietnam. Now this veteran from Whittier is working to win a long-awaited welcome home for Vietnam vets and he's doing it by biking to the White House.

>> I wish somebody would have been there when I got off that plane and said, "You know, kid, I understand. You want to talk about it? Come on." There was nobody.

Val>> That's next time on Life and Times.