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Life & Times Transcript

02/07/06

Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times --

An Orange County city tackles a tough question. Should local police enforce federal immigration laws?

Allan Mansoor>> I want to make sure that, if someone does commit a major crime, they are in fact deported after they do their time.

Coytl Tezcatlipoca>> "I know that this is not about gang violence or whatever. This is you being a racist pig! That's what it is about!

Val Zavala>> And then, Cris Franco is going to the dogs and he couldn't be happier.

These stories and more next on tonight's Life and Times.

Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education.

And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg.

Val Zavala>> Should cops also be immigration agents? Should a police officer check the status of people they arrest? Well, that's the question that is causing quite an uproar in the town of Costa Mesa that has a sizable Latino population. Roger Cooper takes a look at both sides of this heated debate.

Roger Cooper>> The Costa Mesa Police helicopter returning from a routine patrol over the city. But down on the ground, things are far from routine for Costa Mesa Police these days. The department finds itself at the center of a heated debate. Police officers are expected to protect and serve. Here in Costa Mesa, some officers are being given additional duties. They are among the first local police in the nation being asked to help enforce immigration laws.

Under a plan that passed the City Council, some Costa Mesa police will get federal training from ICE, United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement. These local officers would then be empowered to check certain felony suspects they take into custody to see if they're in the United States legally. If not, the officers would alert federal officials.

John Hensley>> Well, one of the things that we need to get very clear to the public is that we're talking about individuals that are in custody for serious felonies.

Roger Cooper>> It falls on Costa Mesa Police Chief John Hensley to implement the City Council's immigration project.

John Hensley>> We're not talking about misdemeanor crimes or infractions. We're talking about criminals that pose a significant threat to our public safety.

Roger Cooper>> This move into local immigration enforcement has been spearheaded by Costa Mesa Mayor Allan Mansoor, who is also a deputy with the Orange County Sheriff's Department.

Allan Mansoor>> I felt the need was there. There's been an outcry from the public. They want their laws enforced. They expect us to enforce the law. But also it's false for the public to expect or assume that, if someone breaks a law and does time in the county jail or in prison, that they're automatically going to be deported upon completion of their sentence if they're here illegally. ICE just does not have all of those resources, so I want to make sure that, if someone does commit a major crime, they are in fact deported after they do their time.

Roger Cooper>> But in Costa Mesa, which is almost a third Latino, the mayor's plan has immigration rights activists up in arms, including Coytl Tezcatlipoca.

Coytl Tezcatlipoca>> Si, yes, definitely (laughter). I think, you know, if we don't stop it here, if like people don't take action here, like you know, it's going to spread all over. That's the way I see it, so that's why I think I'm putting all my energy into this.

Roger Cooper>> Christopher Blank is with Neighbors For a Safe Costa Mesa.

Christopher Blank>> For the city of Costa Mesa then to take on the role of trying to be immigration agents just doesn't make any sense. What that ends up being, then, is primarily symbolic and we think it's the wrong symbol for our city.

Roger Cooper>> Student activist, Daniel Rudisill, agrees.

Daniel Rudisill>> I don't like it at all. I think it creates a rift between the police department and the community and specifically the Mexican and Central American communities.

Roger Cooper>> Chief Hensley says many of their fears are unfounded.

John Hensley>> Well, I want to say this very clearly. We are not going to be doing sweeps. What seems to be the prevailing attitude in a lot of the neighborhoods is that somehow we're going to be out conducting sweeps on people of color because of, you know, they're seeking work on the street corners or for petty crimes. What I want to say to the folks out there is that we're only talking about people that are currently in custody on a serious felony.

Roger Cooper>> This is not the first time Costa Mesa has taken the lead on a controversial immigration issue. Last spring, the council voted to close the local day labor site after some argued that it encouraged hiring illegal immigrants.

>> "Yes, our next speaker, please."

Roger Cooper>> Now tensions over the police plan which passed by a close three to two vote have boiled over at City Council meetings. Members of the Minuteman Project, like Steve Nelson, have shown up to support it.

Steve Nelson>> "This isn't about race. Try to look behind your little whiteness or your blackness or your brownness. This isn't about being a proud Chicano or, you know, a white racist. It's about the crime that's being committed against American citizens in our country by people who didn't come through the proper channels. If you're here illegally and you're a criminal and you're victimizing people, see 'ya."

Roger Cooper>> Tempers flared when activist Tezcatlipoca spoke up saying the council's move is not really about crime.

Coytl Tezcatlipoca>> "I know that this is not about gang violence or whatever. This is you being a racist pig! That's what it is about, okay?

Allan Mansoor>> "Sir, if you would please stop with the verbal --"

Coytl Tezcatlipoca>> "-- you are. I'm calling things the way they are. You are a racist pig and that's sick!"

Allan Mansoor>> "If you're going to get out of line, we're going to ask you to leave."

Coytl Tezcatlipoca>> "I'm not getting out of line. You're getting out of line!"

Allan Mansoor>> "Sir, you're time is up."

Coytl Tezcatlipoca>> "It's not up!"

Allan Mansoor>> "And, again, the focus tonight is on the crimes, the major crimes. It has nothing to do with sweeps or anything like that."

Roger Cooper>> Using police officers to enforce immigration law is even controversial among law enforcement. Orange County Sheriff, Mike Corona, for example, is for it and is working to train two hundred deputies in immigration enforcement. Costa Mesa has modeled its program after Orange County.

But it's a different story in Los Angeles where Sheriff Lee Baca and Los Angeles Police Chief William Bratton told the Los Angeles Times that they are solidly against local officers enforcing immigration law. They say it would take resources away from other crime-fighting and damage the trust between police and immigrant communities, trust that has taken years to build. But Costa Mesa's police chief says those issues can be managed.

John Hensley>> We're going to do our best to explain what this program is and what it isn't so that those that are just trying to raise their families and send their kids to good schools and live the American dream are not going to have anything to fear from us. We're only going to be dealing with the most serious of felons.

Roger Cooper>> But student activist, Daniel Rudisill, fears police immigration enforcement will discourage people from reporting crime.

Daniel Rudisill>> Why would someone feel comfortable talking to an INS agent? If there was a crime committed and if you're an illegal individual, why would you go speak to an INS agent? Because it will be a police officer/INS agent.

Roger Cooper>> Chief Hensley says there's one crime he wants to exclude from the immigration program.

John Hensley>> My biggest concern is that the victim of domestic violence would be afraid to come forward, so I'm going to recommend to the City Council that that be one crime that would be excluded from the serious felonies as an example.

Roger Cooper>> And then there are those who say the plan is not about immigration or crime-fighting, but politics.

Duane Roberts>> A lot of this is just election year gimmickry. If you carefully examine some of the politicians that are involved in putting forth this proposal not only just here in Costa Mesa, but elsewhere, you will find not only are they close friends, but they're also either seeking re-election or running for higher public office.

Roger Cooper>> Long-time Costa Mesa resident, Jean Forbath, believes this issue has divided the community and is taking her city in the wrong direction.

Jean Forbath>> It makes me very sad because it's kind of like d�j� vu all over again. I'm very said that Costa Mesa is getting a national reputation of a city that's xenophobic and trying to build walls instead of bridges.

Roger Cooper>> Some activists have called for a boycott of some Costa Mesa merchants to begin in sixty days unless the council stops the local enforcement program. With immigration becoming a hot issue nationwide, many will be watching Costa Mesa to see if it represents the wave of the future. In Costa Mesa, I'm Roger Cooper for Life and Times.

Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times".

Val Zavala>> It's not often that you can say a book changed society, but it's no exaggeration to say that "The Feminine Mystique" did just that. It did nothing less than start the women's movement. Its author, Betty Friedan, died at age eighty-five on her birthday. She founded the National Organization for Women and worked tirelessly for women's rights. Kathy Spillar is Executive Editor of Ms. Magazine based here in Los Angeles.

Kathy Spillar>> Women of my generation owe her a great debt. She changed our lives because she changed the possibilities of our lives. She addressed the inequalities that women face in all aspects of their lives and that became the mission of the National Organization for Women. So we're able today to have very rich lives, to pursue careers, to have jobs, to have children, to participate in an elected office. All of those doors opened up because of the early work not only of Betty Friedan, but her colleagues at the time.

Val Zavala>> I did an interview with Betty Friedan for Life and Times when her autobiography was published in 2000. It is interesting that the one person you did not want to be like was your mother.

Betty Friedan>> No. How I knew, I don�t know, but I was just so aware of my mother�s frustration. She obviously had a lot of my energy and ability. After all, I inherited it from her. She was a beautiful woman and she did everything that women were supposed to do and she did it perfectly. But she was not, you know, really deliriously happy. I knew what was wrong with my mother. She didn�t have any real work of her own to do that she thought was important.

Val Zavala>> And, in fact, she made it difficult for you personally growing up?

Betty Friedan>> You know, she was on our backs, all the kids, and nothing we did was ever good enough and nothing my father did was ever good enough.

Val Zavala>> So you felt, I imagine, a little repressed as a child, but you just blossomed in college.

Betty Friedan>> Yes.

Val Zavala>> You went to Smith College for women and you really became a star on campus. You were the editor of the paper, a real leader.

Betty Friedan>> You know, I grew up in Peoria, Illinois. Being Jewish in Peoria was not, you know, all a bed of roses then. Sororities and fraternities ran the high school life and, because I was Jewish, I didn�t get into a sorority. But I wrote a column in the high school newspaper. I started a literary magazine in high school. And then I went to Smith. Smith was wonderful for me because, for the first time, I wasn�t peculiar. You know, I used long words that in Peoria I didn�t pronounce right because nobody ever -- being bright actually was an asset at Smith and, of course, I got a wonderful education there too, but I was also approved of and my whole personality blossomed.

Val Zavala>> It really did. And after college, you were kind of lost for a little while. You weren�t really --

Betty Friedan>> -- well, I got this fellowship in psychology --

Val Zavala>> -- a very prestigious one.

Betty Friedan>> -- at Berkeley and then I got -- at the end of that first year, I won the biggest or the first woman or the only woman in psychology to win the biggest science fellowship to go straight to my PhD. I was going around at the time with a physicist. He took me for a walk in the Berkeley hills and he said, "We�re through because I�m never going to win a fellowship like that." I was devastated. Then I thought, "I have got to get out of this academic world where I�m brighter than the boys."

Val Zavala>> So you turned down that very, very prestigious fellowship?

Betty Friedan>> I turned down the fellowship.

Val Zavala>> But you did end up settling in the suburbs, getting married, having three children. This is after the war?

Betty Friedan>> And we had a house in the suburbs on the Hudson River, a big old Victorian house. I also free-lanced for the magazine.

Val Zavala>> And it was the article that wouldn�t get published that turned into �The Feminine Mystique�?

Betty Friedan>> That�s right. Well, I had been asked to do a fifteenth reunion questionnaire of my sister Smith graduates. You know, I had been trained as a psychologist, as well as a journalist, and I put an inordinate amount of time into that questionnaire because, at this time, there was a lot of nonsense going on. Freud had hit the shores and �what is wrong with American women that they�re frustrated in their role as women, they�re frustrated in their role as housewives, whether they�ve had too much education�.

So I decided I would use this fifteenth reunion questionnaire to disprove that education was making women frustrated in their role as women. But my questionnaire raised more questions than it answered and I decided, yes, that education maybe was making women frustrated in their narrow role of housewives, but it wasn�t necessarily education that was at fault. There was a narrow definition of the role of women.

Val Zavala>> �The Feminine Mystique� came out, changed your life, changed millions of women�s lives.

Betty Friedan>> Women still come up to me and say, �It changed my life.� It had a tremendous impact.

Val Zavala>> And it also ushered in another stage in your marriage in which your husband was very jealous and you�re very frank in your book. He beat you up. You became battered --

Betty Friedan>> -- that�s an exaggeration. He didn�t beat me up. We fought a lot.

Val Zavala>> You fought a lot.

Betty Friedan>> We fought a lot. I had a very mean tongue. When the fighting escalated from words to blows, he was bigger than me, so I got bruises. But it would be a vast incorrect exaggeration to say he beat me. He didn�t. And I�m very furious at that magazine that put that on the cover as if I said he beat me because I never did.

Val Zavala>> But you really tangled physically?

Betty Friedan>> Oh, yeah. Listen, even if I started it, I got the worst of it because he was bigger than me, that�s all (laughter).

Val Zavala>> So you don�t not fit this passive, battered spouse image?

Betty Friedan>> No, I was no passive victim of a wife beater.

Val Zavala>> Very good, very good. Let�s talk, then, about the women�s movement. It has had spectacular success, perhaps even more than you can imagine, in the last thirty years. What is the most important battlefront?

Betty Friedan>> Now?

Val Zavala>> Yes, now.

Betty Friedan>> Well, here is this rich, prosperous nation, the United States, and we don�t have a national childcare program. I mean, there should be pre-kindergarten. Certainly beginning at the age of two, but probably at six months, because most mothers are now in the workforce and they don�t get even a six months maternity leave.

But also there�s other things on the horizon that I think are interesting. As women, you know, move up in careers and professions, equal numbers with men, they begin to have decision-making power and they begin to have innovative power. You know, everything has been a male agenda. Everything has been defined by men and now they�ll begin to be defined by women. So there will be new dimensions.

Val Zavala>> A matter of living to see them. I�m glad I�m going to be around to see the legacy that you will be leaving. Thank you so much, Betty Friedan, author of �Life So Far�. I like the �So Far� part.

Betty Friedan>> You like the title?

Val Zavala>> I love it. Thank you so much for being with us.

Kathy Spillar>> Whether you knew her or not, she changed your life. At Ms. Magazine, we're asking people to come to our website, msmagazine.com, and post what you remember. We're getting some wonderful postings, so I hope that your viewers will come to msmagazine.com and let us know how the feminist movement and Betty Friedan changed their lives.

Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address:

Life and Times
4401 Sunset Blvd.
Los Angeles, California 90027

You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org.

Val Zavala>> If you're a dog, you don't have to die to go to heaven. You can achieve Nirvana just by heading to a park off of Mulholland Drive. Canine commentator, Cris Franco, takes us there.

[Film Clip]

Cris Franco>> Welcome to the happiest place on earth if you're a Los Angeles dog. This is the Laurel Canyon Dog Park, also known as Doggie Disneyland.

[Film Clip]

Cris Franco>> It's a place where hounds and their humans get to talk, bark, fetch, sniff, drink, lick and run free, free, free. For over a decade -- that's like seventy dog years -- hundreds of pet owners have been bringing their dogs to these three acres of doggie heaven. I wonder how many acres that is in dog acres? The dogs were too busy enjoying each other's company to talk, so I made conversation with their masters. And what do you and Slim get out of coming here to the dog park?

>> I get time off because Slim sleeps a lot afterwards.

Cris Franco>> I hear a lot of the --

>> Yeah, he really works, and they go crazy.

Cris Franco>> Yeah, they seem to adore the company of other dogs.

>> Well, yes, they're dogs (laughter).

[Film Clip]

>> We come to the dog park because she insists on meeting other dogs and because she wants to prove that other people like her more than I do.

Cris Franco>> And what Nina wants, Nina gets.

>> What Nina wants, Nina gets.

>> Because I think it makes them so much happier and healthier, you know, if they're not constantly controlled by the leash.

Cris Franco>> Is she a good dog? Do you like her?

>> She's a real sweetheart. You know, like she hasn't gone to obedience school, so sometimes she has a --

Cris Franco>> -- well, neither have I. What does Lucy Lorna Liza do for you?

>> Okay, the basic thing is, he definitely stays with me 24/7. He follows me. If I stop, he stops. He will go wherever I go. He's like a tiny little infant.

Cris Franco>> Or he's stalking you.

>> He's stalking me.

Cris Franco>> I'm not sure. She's eating grass.

>> And that's good.

Cris Franco>> Is that good for her?

>> Yeah, grass is supposed to be good for them, you know. It helps with the digestion. It has, I think, certain vitamins --

Cris Franco>> -- high fiber, high fiber.

>> Our dogs get along really well with other dogs and other people and that's really why we're here, to let them run around and get some exercise. Our yard is, unfortunately, not this big, so it's a nice place for them to run around.

Cris Franco>> Well, this is three doggie acres of doggie heaven right here. And right here includes a watering area, this arts gallery, a gated play area for small children and a special pen for small dogs.

[Film Clip]

Cris Franco>> Are you small or timid (laughter)? What if you're both?

>> Then you exactly belong here.

Cris Franco>> Here's another sign you'll see at the Laurel Canyon Dog Park. "Aggressive dogs are not allowed in the park. Dogs exhibiting unusually aggressive behavior are to be removed from the park at once." Can we get that applied to people?

Dogs and human beings are ninety-five percent genetically identical, yet unlike us, they're nonjudgmental, reliable, honest, love unconditionally. Do you think that dogs should be our role models? Yeah. Do you think that dogs should be our role models perhaps?

>> Well, dogs are in many ways examples of how I think humans are supposed to live.

Cris Franco>> Bingo!

>> Unconditional love and joy. Like the minister said, if you believe in reincarnation, his view of being born as a dog in a good home is like a highly-evolved, higher maybe than human. He was half joking (laughter).

Cris Franco>> I mean, if you're Paris Hilton's dog, you're like going to all the stuff and you got bling. Dogs greet each other by sniffing, so in my efforts to get in touch with my inner dog, I asked a couple of people to do the same to see if we couldn't tell something about each other. Go right ahead and tell me what you think. Oh, sniff me. Oh, she's good at it.

[Film Clip]

Cris Franco>> Anything?

>> Just a nice person, that's all (laughter).

Cris Franco>> I'm a nice person (laughter).

>> I don't know, like it's hard to --

Cris Franco>> -- I like that. Are you the alpha dog in this relationship?

>> Of course, I'm the alpha dog.

Cris Franco>> You're the alpha dog and he's -- what you're saying is that's the key to controlling your dog. You have to let the dog think you're in charge.

>> I am the alpha dog, but he is spoiled.

Cris Franco>> In fact, American dogs are the most spoiled pets on the planet with fawning masters who lavish them with toys, totes, houses, pet portraits and fido fashions.

[Film Clip]

Cris Franco>> Do you ever dress your dog?

>> I have to because --

Cris Franco>> -- uh-oh, she does. We got a dog dresser.

>> Yes, she has more coats than I do.

Cris Franco>> She's totally --

>> -- I mean, black cocktail dress, and she's ready to go.

Cris Franco>> But this club pup is not without controversy. There's a subject about which everyone is either pro or con. No one is neutral about neutering. Is Oreo neutered?

>> He is neutered.

Cris Franco>> So he's a he.

>> Yes.

Cris Franco>> Okay. How do you think he feels about having been neutered?

>> I really don't think he pays much thought to it at all.

Cris Franco>> Oh, really?

>> He still marks everything he possibly can. I don't think he has any problems at all.

Cris Franco>> He's a manly dog! He still marks. Is he your only dog?

>> No. Our other one, Roxie, is running around over there. She's three years old.

Cris Franco>> But she's not neutered.

>> She's spayed.

Cris Franco>> Spayed. So it's a different term?

>> Yes.

Cris Franco>> Didn't know. So bitches get spayed.

>> Right.

Cris Franco>> This is the only time you can say bitch on KCET, so I'm going to take every opportunity to say that the bitch is spayed. Don't you think that we should just preach abstinence to the dogs?

>> I do. I preach abstinence and I keep my dog in on the weekends in fact. You know, basically I've cut up most of her credit cards and she has no email anymore.

Cris Franco>> Body language is a dog's first language, but what do all these motions mean? If this dog licks me, is he saying that he loves me or that he loves what I had for lunch? I find it all hard to understand, but not most of the owners. Like what is he saying right now? What is your dog's body language saying right now?

>> He's saying, "Daddy, does he have any treats for me?"

Cris Franco>> Uh-huh. What's your dog thinking or saying, or what are you reading?

>> "I don't want to go. Don't put me on the leash. I'm only coming to you because you don't have the leash on."

Cris Franco>> The leash is bad. Bad leash. I think what most bowsers are saying is "I love the dog park because it lets me be all the dog I can be."

[Film Clip]

Cris Franco>> My afternoon at the Laurel Canyon Dog Park was beyond great. I got to be out in the sun and I got some exercise and I got to spend some quality time with an accepting, loving, intelligent, polite and supportive group -- and the people weren't bad either.

Val Zavala>> Yeah, especially the ones who went to obedience school. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. For everyone at Life and Times, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education.

And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg.

Sponsored in part by:


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