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Life & Times Transcript

11/07/06

Coverage of Town Hall Los Angeles speakers on Life and Times is made possible by a grant from the Boeing Company.

Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times --

First he was suspended, then demoted, after running against his boss. Was it political retaliation?

Mike Carona>> There's no vindictiveness going on. If there was vindictiveness, I have the legal authority to reduce Mr. Hunt or to terminate Mr. Hunt going back from the day that he filed.

Val Zavala>> And then, looking back on a lifetime of memories and learning to share.

These stories and more next on tonight's Life and Times.

Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education.

And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg.

Val Zavala>> He was a high-ranking official in the Orange County Sheriff's Department, but he never thought he'd end up being demoted to deputy. But that's what happened to Lieutenant Bill Hunt after he ran against incumbent sheriff, Mike Carona, in last June's election. Now Carona is proposing that Hunt be demoted for unprofessional conduct. Is it a case of political payback or just discipline? Orange County reporter, Roger Cooper, has our story.

Roger Cooper>> As political campaigns go, the race for Orange County Sheriff was a bitter battle that got personal.

Bill Hunt>> It's the issues and the scandals and the problems within the department that our people are being picked on for, and that's unacceptable. It needs to be changed.

Mike Carona>> We've had other allegations that have been made against me. All those will prove to be false and everybody behind those has a political agenda.

Roger Cooper>> Sheriff Mike Carona was dogged by allegations of scandal in his department and failed to get the endorsement of the deputies' union. His strongest challenger came from the ranks of his own department, Lieutenant Bill Hunt.

Bill Hunt>> To me, politics takes a back seat to public safety.

Mike Carona>> There are a number of people out there that want to keep the negative things that have occurred in the headlines.

Roger Cooper>> But late on election night, June 6, after all the votes were counted, Carona emerged with a narrow victory, 50.9 percent, just enough to avoid a runoff and give Carona a third term as sheriff. There were calls from Carona for healing and, after a long and hostile campaign, everyone went to bed thinking the fight was finally over. They were wrong. The very next morning, the sheriff placed his chief political opponent, Lieutenant Bill Hunt, on administrative leave. Hunt supporters like Tim Whitacre were stunned.

Tim Whitacre>> The men and women agreed, endorsed an individual in the department over the incumbent sheriff, ran a good credible campaign and, less than twenty-four hours after the elections closed on the sixth, he's put on administrative leave. That's wrong.

Roger Cooper>> The attorney for Sheriff Carona said Hunt was placed on leave pending an investigation into accusations he made against Carona during the campaign. At issue, whether Hunt's campaign criticisms went beyond protected freedom of speech and into an area that could subject Hunt to employment discipline. What can you say to the people who think there's vindictiveness going on?

Mike Carona>> There's no vindictiveness going on. If there were vindictiveness, I have the legal authority to reduce Mr. Hunt or to terminate Mr. Hunt going back from the day that he filed.

Roger Cooper>> Sheriff Carona says he waited until the day after the election to put Hunt on leave so as not to influence the vote.

Mike Carona>> I chose not to do that. I let the process work through. But during the campaign, there were a number of statements that were made. There were a number of actions that were taken. All those need to be reviewed to determine whether or not he should go back into a policy position.

Roger Cooper>> But exactly what Hunt said or did is not being made public. Carona says he's prevented by law from revealing that during the investigation. Attorney Judi Fouladi doesn't speak for Lieutenant Hunt now, but did represent him during the campaign.

Judi Fouladi>> This is just continuing with a climate of retaliation and a climate of fear and a culture of fear that's being fostered and generated in the Sheriff's Department whereby the clear message is being sent to would-be opponents of Mike Carona, "If you mess with me, you will pay and you will pay dearly."

Roger Cooper>> Some of the fallout from Sheriff Carona's suspension of his former political opponent can be felt here in the South County in San Clemente. San Clemente contracts with the Sheriff's Department for its police services and Lieutenant Bill Hunt functioned as San Clemente's police chief. From this substation, Lieutenant Hunt oversaw fifty-six deputies who patrolled the city of San Clemente.

Wayne Eggleston>> I think it's viewed by many as political retribution.

Roger Cooper>> Mayor Wayne Eggleston is among many in this seaside community who have come to their police chief's defense.

Wayne Eggleston>> I know that, in fact, this community is very supportive of Lieutenant Bill Hunt. He's done a superb job for us in San Clemente. He's been very responsive. He's been very community-oriented and people just love him here in San Clemente.

Roger Cooper>> The City Council came to his defense.

Wayne Eggleston>> Yes, they sure did with a resolution. The resolution says, in effect, that Bill Hunt has done a superb job in San Clemente and we want this issue resolved as quickly as possible and him returned to San Clemente as our police chief.

Roger Cooper>> But some say the fallout hasn't stopped with Lieutenant Hunt. A Sheriff's Training Academy instructor claims he was fired because he supported Hunt and two probationary deputies who also backed Hunt say they received reassignments.

Mike Carona>> You've cited other than Mr. Hunt two other individuals who suffered their probation not moving forward. It had nothing to do with politics. That's where the probation was. In fact, one of them has been restored.

Roger Cooper>> In the midst of all this, even Sheriff Carona's outside attorney came under scrutiny.

>> "And this is not about questioning the sheriff in any way. It's more about the Board's relationship with the firm of Jones and Mayer and clarifying exactly what that relationship is."

Roger Cooper>> In mid-June, the Orange County Board of Supervisors decided to look into attorney Marvin Mayer's contract with the county. It was Mayer who advised Sheriff Carona that he could put Lieutenant Hunt on leave. The Supervisors' meeting drew plenty of citizens with strong feelings for and against Carona's actions.

Mary Young>> "And we are here to support the sheriff. We've known the sheriff for fifteen years and he's a good man and he's a great sheriff."

Karen Finn>> "This is like an episode right out of "The Dukes of Hazzard". Don't allow Mike Carona to be big Boss Hogg of Orange County. Neither this sheriff or any other elected official should be allowed to waste taxpayer dollars for political retribution. This is an outrage."

Stephen Vargas>> "You can have opposing views, but you cannot go out in public and directly smear and take opposition with legitimate public policy that the sheriff is instructed to carry out."

Tim Whitacre>> "The man's got to know his limitations. I would you as Supervisors to help this sheriff know his limitations when it comes to abusing taxpayer dollars. Thank you."

Roger Cooper>> Sheriff Carona himself came before the Supervisors to explain Lieutenant Hunt's suspension, but citing legal limitations that he couldn't disclose exactly what Hunt was being investigated for.

Mike Carona>> "There are a lot of things I can't say and it frustrates the press because they say, "Well, Sheriff, tell us what's going on." I can't because I'm precluded by law. However, there are certain things that, vetting it through our attorneys, we can say and I'm very cautious in doing that."

Roger Cooper>> In the end, after receiving some clarifications, the Supervisors decided to continue their contract with Carona's outside attorney. But the battle may be opening on a new front. Opponents are angry about Lieutenant Hunt's suspension and, buoyed by Carona's narrow margin of victory, they say they will launch an effort to recall the sheriff.

Tim Whitacre>> There is a group of us that are outraged with the lack of accountability in government and it's going to be even bigger than a recall. Yes, we're looking at recall and we've already pulled our papers.

Wayne Eggleston>> I would hope that Sheriff Mike Carona sees the light and does the right thing.

Mike Carona>> None of this is retribution. It's just the normal process. What's interesting for all of you is that it's taking place on the heels of an election and people out there, because they have their own political viewpoints, are trying to spin that in terms of some type of retribution. It just simply isn't.

Roger Cooper>> The twists and turns of this political soap opera have now been extended into a whole new act and television producers, looking for the next "The O.C.", could find plenty of material for a pilot by just reading the headlines. In Orange County, I'm Roger Cooper for Life and Times.

Val Zavala>> The proposed demotion for Lieutenant Hunt would put him just two steps above an entry level position. He has ten days to respond.

Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times".

Val Zavala>> Recently, a couple of laptop computers went missing and they contained personal information on sixty thousand Starbucks employees, current and former. But what are the chances of that lost data actually turning into identity theft? The chances are smaller than you may think.

I talked to Steven Gal, the founder of ID Analytics, whose company analyzed the VA laptop theft and devises ways to catch identity thieves. Gal was a guest of Town Hall Los Angeles. People get freaked out when they think that their personal information has been lost or stolen. Is the fear greater than the reality?

Steven Gal>> I think so. I mean, you know, identity theft and identity fraud has been front page news for six or seven years now and you just see again and again there's always this symptom. If you went back to the news five years ago, they talked about dumpster diving here in the United States and raiding in the United Kingdom. Shred all your documents, right? Because, you know, that's how identity theft happens. Two or three years ago, it was a lot about the web, viruses and different ways that key loggers would get you.

Now the last year and a half since California passed their law, it's all about data breaching and people are concerned when they hear about a data breach. A lot of studies have been done. We did a study of a set of actual breaches that happened. The reality is that your chances of being an identity theft victim aren't really any higher in general in the case of the data breach.

Val Zavala>> At the same time, we've had ChoicePoint and the VA has lost tens of thousands of peoples' personal information. That's nothing to be concerned about?

Steven Gal>> Well, let's look at this and take it apart. Over a hundred million identities have been breached according to the California law over the past eighteen months.

Val Zavala>> Breached, meaning --

Steven Gal>> Breached, meaning somehow lost. Many of them fell off the truck, some of them just disappeared, some of them were targeted and stolen. Sometimes people, like the VA, just went after the laptop computer and got the records with it. But there's no indication that that's any more than the year before or the year before that. We don't know.

Val Zavala>> Now in the case of the VA theft, it was the hard drive that was just stolen by some kids who were doing a residential burglary. They weren't ID thieves at all.

Steven Gal>> Right. I mean, everything in the press indicates that this was just a target of the computer. That's all they wanted. They had absolutely no idea. The computer, we know, ended up at a pawn shop, right? And they had no idea what data was on there until well after it became publicized.

I mean, you've got to separate the fear and data breaches certainly create a lot of fear from the reality of risk of identity theft. In fact, like I said, in your lifetime, you're likely to be a victim. The results will probably not be that significant, but there's a tremendous amount being done behind the scenes.

Val Zavala>> And I was surprised to learn that, even though you have a hundred thousand people whose data has been breached, we have not seen a subsequent increase in identity theft, in the actual crime. Is that right?

Steven Gal>> Yeah, they're not directly related. What our study found was a couple of things. One is that the most dangerous breaches are small, targeted breaches. So you're much more at risk if somebody goes into a doctor's office, say, and steals twenty or thirty files with personal information in them because generally that's a target. Identity thieves are going after it and they can work through twenty or thirty of these pretty easily.

We're doing work on the VA breach. They hired us to do their breach analysis. Generally, in these very large breaches, you know, first of all, think about how long it would take to try and steal twenty million identities. You'd need a full-time staff of hundreds of people working for years and years. So even if it were focused on these large breaches on stealing identities, the odds of yours being stolen are pretty slim.

The problem isn't that your data is out there. It is, and you can't get around without using it. The problem is when criminals use it to convert it to money. That's what I think everybody is trying to stop because there's not a lot that consumers can do about that. It's primarily institutions that are doing the worst.

Val Zavala>> Can you give us an idea of what they're doing?

Steven Gal>> Well, we have a product called the ID Score. Five hundred million ID Scores are used this year on everything from applications for credit, bank accounts, wireless accounts, mortgages, the VISA network, Equifax, Transunion, and all these different places where data sits, to help prevent identity thieves from using data. It's a lot like credit scoring. The FICO Score was used to prevent credit risks and ID Scores are used to prevent identity risk. We stop tens of thousands of frauds every month.

Val Zavala>> How does it work? What do you mean, ID Scores?

Steven Gal>> Well, what we do is, we look at the behavior of identities in our network. We run a national network. We see all of this data on applications for credit, changes of addresses, wireless applications, mortgages, all of these different types of data, and we look for unusual behavior patterns. What we see are fraud rings, organized fraudsters operating and trying to use your information and we score them in a way that stops them from using it.

Val Zavala>> So how do you stay ahead of these fraudsters? Because, like you said, they're right on the cutting edge of all this.

Steven Gal>> Well, you know, one facet of fraud is that fraudsters behave differently and those differences can be detected. You need to have a lot of data. You need it to be there when the transactions are happening and that's what our ID network does. Then we have teams of analytic folks constantly looking at how this data is being used and the new patterns of fraud. Every time we find a new pattern either through our system or through our people, we stop it. I think it's a constant battle.

Val Zavala>> The states are also -- a lot of states have passed this new law which requires the consumer to be notified when their data has been breached. Is that helpful?

Steven Gal>> Correct. I mean, the notification has created a lot of fear. It's helpful in some respects because at least consumers know, but really what do they do in the case that they get these letters? The issue also is that criminals who may have stolen a computer, having no idea -- like the VA -- what was on it will now be aware because it's widely publicized. So the question is, does that cause them to recognize the value of this data that they wouldn't even have known was there?

Val Zavala>> And what about these websites where information is sold?

Steven Gal>> Well, there are websites that are illegal where stolen information is sold. There are many websites that are legal where public record information on us, all sorts of information, is sold legally. The reality is that both the black market for information and the commercial market for information is very, very large. The government is one of the biggest sellers and buyers of our information.

I think that's just part of the world we live in where seventy percent of our economy is driven by consumer spending and instant credit and fast mortgages, etc. It's not a problem unless you don't have the counterbalances to prevent the fraudsters. I think identity theft is largely under control now. It's something that happens. It's not growing significantly and we think it's largely under control. If you look at it ten years from now, slowly but surely, we'll whittle away at what does happen.

Val Zavala>> Well, that's different from what we hear on the news because you always hear that identity theft is the fastest-growing crime in whatever, the country or the state or whatever.

Steven Gal>> Yeah. I mean, the measurement of it has gotten much more precise and a lot more surveyed. We know more about it and how it's happening. I think, you know, counterfeit checks were sort of a precursor to identity thefts. That happened for a long time and still happens. I think, to a large extent, there's a lot of panic about it and it's been going on now for years.

The reality is that most people don't suffer. If they do suffer, they suffer once in their life, maybe twice. And when they do, it's not that significant. What banks have done is removed the liability so that you don't have financial liability when it happens to you. There's no doubt that it's a severe problem for those people who suffer it, but I don't think it's explosive.

Val Zavala>> Well, Steve Gal, thank you for all your work and protecting us in doing what we can.

Steven Gal>> Thanks a lot for having me. I appreciate it.

Val Zavala>> Steve Gal was a guest of Town Hall Los Angeles. If you'd like more information on events and speakers, you can go to their website at townhall-LA.org.

Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address:

Life and Times
4401 Sunset Blvd.
Los Angeles, California 90027

You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org.

Val Zavala>> We all know that our parents and grandparents are full of incredible stories. After all, they are members of the greatest generation. But how do you bring those stories to light and to life? Well, that's where storyteller, Barbara Clark, comes in and the results are wonderful. Toni Guinyard went to a senior center in midtown Los Angeles to see how Barbara Clark works her magic.

Barbara H. Clark>> "Well, we're not going to wait. We're going to get started."

Toni Guinyard>> This is a story about the stories of students. Yes, students, in a storytelling workshop. They each have something to share, a moment in time from way back when.

Bernadene Coleman>> "But Momma, God rest her soul, always had a way of bringing Daddy back down to earth."

Toni Guinyard>> They are learning the art of storytelling. For a full eight months, one hour a day, once every week, they meet at the Vineyard Recreation Center in Los Angeles, first learning to write and then performing their stories on stage.

Nelle Baker Slaton>> "And she turned and twisted in front of the mirror again and said, 'This goes so well with my blue jeans.'"

Toni Guinyard>> After months of developing, writing, telling, polishing and then retelling their stories in front of each other, it all comes down to this: their final rehearsal for their final performance with the students thinking about one thing.

Bernadene Coleman>> (Laughter) Whether you can get through the story or not without making a mistake or without forgetting. I think at this age or this stage in life, that's probably in most of our thoughts.

Barbara H. Clark>> "Try standing in one place, project your voice. Remember you got audience all the way at the back of the room."

Toni Guinyard>> And at the center of it all is Barbara H. Clark. The retired librarian issues directions from her posts around the room. From here, she sees all --

Barbara H. Clark>> "Move closer in."

Toni Guinyard>> And hears all. These are her students. The storytelling workshop is her idea.

Barbara H. Clark>> To most people, when you say storyteller, they start to think about entertaining children. I don't do children (laughter). I perform for adult audiences and my stories are not fairy tales or mythology or folklore.

"The title of my story is 'Five and Dime'."

My stories are original personal stories, stories about my own life experiences, stories about my family background and my cultural heritage.

"You see, we lived in an all-black community and the bus didn't come into our neighborhood."

So they're designed for an adult audience.

"Well, I knew I was colored, but I had money to spend, so what difference should it make?"

They're designed to grab the audience at the very beginning, hang on to their attention and hold them through to the very ending so that they will never lose the attention.

Toni Guinyard>> Clark takes storytelling seriously and expects her students to be prepared.

Nelle Becker Slaton>> One woman wasn't able to do it. She said, "You go back in that room and you learn that story." That was a payback and she had to get up there.

Toni Guinyard>> She's serious about it.

Nelle Becker Slaton>> Oh, she's serious, but she's pleasant.

Barbara H. Clark>> She stood on that stage and she told her story and she did not have an anxiety attack and, when she came off that stage, she went, "Yes!" She couldn't contain herself, she was so pleased with what she had accomplished.

Nelle Becker Slaton>> I love it and I tease her all the time. I tell everybody that she's a strict teacher, but she's nice about it.

Barbara H. Clark>> "I want you all here at twelve o'clock sharp. You can come five minutes before, but don't come five minutes after."

Toni Guinyard>> One week later, before a packed house, it's time for the storytelling concert, as it's called, to begin.

Barbara H. Clark>> "Welcome, all of you, to 'Tell Me a Story'. This is our seventh concert."

Toni Guinyard>> One by one, the students take center stage.

>> "We went weaving in and out and around the May Pole, wrapping the May Pole. When it was completely wrapped and our streamers secured, Mrs. Watson said, 'Boys and girls, you were perfect. You may go to your parents now.' Momma gave me the biggest, tightest hug. 'Oh, I am so proud of you.' Oh, Momma, I love you."

Toni Guinyard>> The stories take the audience from childhood to youth.

>> "We decided to go to a movie. Now going to a movie in 1951 was the coolest. It was like being engaged."

Toni Guinyard>> And from youth to the realities of adulthood.

Barbara Murray>> "They had talked about adoption for a long time."

Toni Guinyard>> The storytellers' words celebrate life and even find the humor in talking about death.

Edna>> "One of her instructions was, 'Now, don't you have that funeral on the weekend because, on the weekends, they charge you double for closing the mortuary.'" (laughter)

Toni Guinyard>> What do you feel when you're up on stage?

Barbara Murray>> Initially, I feel a case of jitters. But after you hear the laughter and see a couple of smiles and you realize that people are relating to what you're saying and they're listening, it feels great.

>> "Six months after I was born, the whole world went into a great depression. Now I'm not taking the blame for that (laughter). I know I was not to blame. It's not my fault."

Toni Guinyard>> Somewhere along the line, the transformation from student to storyteller takes place.

Marilyn>> "I thought of chemistry sentences and, in my head, I heard those jingles, those songs I had made up. I had quite a few. 'Oh, H20 is water, got to pass this test 'cause I oughta.' (laughter). I write it down and went to the other one, SO4. 'SO4 is sulfur, it stinks like rotten eggs, just like the hair grease Momma puts on my head' and I'd write it, write it, write it. I did this for it must have been about five minutes into the test. I felt this hand on my shoulder and I looked up and it was Professor Burns. He said, 'Marilyn, are you all right?'"

Barbara H. Clark>> The thrill is, I think, pretty obvious because everybody wants to think that there was something about their lives that was important, particularly people who have lived most of their lives. That is, you look back and you realize at a certain age that most of your life is behind you and you think there must be some value to that.

Toni Guinyard>> On this day, value is measured by applause or a nod or a smile, but the story doesn't end here.

Barbara H. Clark>> I would like to see storytelling take its rightful place in the theater world and have people recognize it as a legitimate -- not only just a legitimate art form, but a needed art form and a wanted art form and an art form that really does attract an audience if they're aware of its existence.

"And I remembered her words from the bus. 'It might be a little harder and take a little longer, but you can have whatever you're willing to work for.' I remembered her lessons from that day until now. But I also remembered the real world lessons I learned at that Five and Dime."

Toni Guinyard>> I'm Toni Guinyard for Life and Times.

Val Zavala>> This Saturday at L.A. Trade Technical College, storytellers will gather for twelve hours of storytelling. For tickets and details, you can go to their website which is lastorytellingfestival.com.

And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. For everyone at Life and Times, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education.

And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg.

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