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Life & Times Transcript
12/14/06 Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times -- What happens when one school's religious beliefs conflict with university standards? Des Starr>> We are a country that was founded on Christian beliefs and we want to teach from our Christian perspective. Robert Tyler>> You go ahead and teach them, but you're not going to get college prep credits for them. Val Zavala>> And then, some of Hollywood's biggest stars tangle with an animated spider. Will our critics get caught in the web? It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times. Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Val Zavala>> Should students from a Christian college be penalized when they apply to college? Well, that's what officials at a private school say is happening to their students when they apply to the UC system. Is it a case of religious discrimination? Roger Cooper heads to Riverside County to find out. [Film Clip] Roger Cooper>> At this high school in south Riverside County, students are learning about music, marching and showmanship as they practice for an appearance at the Liberty Bowl. But they also have a unique opportunity to learn about the boundary between church and state. Calvary Chapel Christian School in Murrieta is a private institution where some one thousand students are taught courses from a Christian point of view. Des Starr>> We are a country that was founded on Christian beliefs and we want to teach from our Christian perspective. Roger Cooper>> Des Starr is Superintendent at Calvary Chapel Christian. Des Starr>> They teach evolution, they teach intelligent design and they teach creationism and they show where the flaws are in evolution. Roger Cooper>> But a few months back, Calvary Chapel School got some news. The University of California informed them that some of their courses would not be given credit when the students applied to the UC system. Specifically, UC officials rejected textbooks for three Christian-oriented courses in history, government and literature as too narrow to be accepted for college prep credits. The school turned to attorney Robert Tyler to look into it. Robert Tyler>> In their response to these courses, it became blatantly apparent that it's not really what was being taught, but how it was being taught. Roger Cooper>> So last August, six Calvary Chapel students filed a federal lawsuit alleging the UC system discriminates against private Christian schools. Christopher Patti is the attorney for the University of California system. We spoke with him by speaker phone from the UC headquarters in Oakland. Christopher Patti>> In the university's view, it is what is being taught. Our review of the textbooks and the courses suggests that they're not really teaching these subject matters. Robert Tyler>> Essentially what the UC is trying to do is kind of secularize private Christian schools. They allow numerous other courses taught from numerous other viewpoints. Religious, philosophical and other types of viewpoints, even political, at other private schools and they give college prep credits through courses that are taught from different viewpoints. Roger Cooper>> Tyler heads a Temecula law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom. Robert Tyler>> But the Calvary Chapel Christian School submitted curriculum for a few courses because the UC looked at those courses and thought that they were expressing too much of a Christian viewpoint and they said we're not going to accept those courses for sake of college prep credits. Christopher Patti>> Well, that's actually not what the university said about those courses. What the university said was that they didn't meet the university's academic requirements. Roger Cooper>> And, says Patti, this is not a case of religious discrimination. Christopher Patti>> First of all, we want to make it clear that the university is not in any way seeking to exclude students who attend Christian schools or even to influence what those students learn in the religion courses that they take. The fact is that the university has accepted now, I think, more than fifty courses from Calvary Christian Academy in Murrieta and has accepted many, many students from that school. Courses have to meet certain academic standards and, in this case, the courses just didn't meet them. Roger Cooper>> The lawsuit is also being filed on behalf of the Association of Christian Schools International. It says the UC has also rejected some textbooks from Bob Jones University Press and A Beka Press as not consistent with the viewpoints and knowledge generally accepted in the scientific community. Robert Tyler>> The UC had a problem with the textbooks and, in those textbooks, they looked at them and they said, you know, these are just too religious. Now that's a real problem because what they're looking at is the viewpoint being taught. Christopher Patti>> To give you an example, the biology text said that it was intended to teach religion first and science second, and the university's view and the view of its faculty is that a science course needs to teach science first. So it wasn't that there was some religious viewpoints in the text. It was just that it didn't do a good job of teaching the subject matter that the university requires to be taken. Roger Cooper>> Tyler contends the UC's bias is evident from other courses it does approve. Robert Tyler>> In this particular case, the UC has given college prep credits for Intro to Buddhism, Islam, Intro to Rabbinic literature, literature of the counter-culture. What we're objecting to is the fact that the UC has allowed other schools to teach these other types of courses from a very narrow and defined perspective, yet will not allow Calvary Chapel Christian School to teach Christianity in America or Christianity and the American republic. Roger Cooper>> What's your response to his contention there? Christopher Patti>> Well, it's accurate that the university has approved, usually as electives, courses about religion or other points of view, but those courses are required to be academic in nature. Robert Tyler>> For some reason, they don't want to recognize for sake of college prep credit courses that are viewed from a Christian standpoint. Christopher Patti>> Well, it's not true that it always gets the door slammed on it and, if you review the university course list, you will see that there are many, many courses dealing with Christianity that have been approved. But those are courses that, in our view, teach the subject matter in an academic fashion. Roger Cooper>> The UC points out that students who choose to take non-approved courses can still take tests and get into the UC schools, but Tyler says the practical impact of that is to discourage students from taking the Christian-oriented courses. What does this lawsuit mean to you? Des Starr>> Hopefully, it will mean that we will be able to have the UC system recognize our Christian perspective, the viewpoint from which we teach. Christopher Patti>> Basically, that's what we believe is at stake in this course, our ability to set and maintain high academic standards for which the university is known. Robert Tyler>> There is a counter-culture that has been opposed to Christian influences in America for a long time. You watch the news and you see it all over the place. So these are students who I'm proud to represent because they are willing to take a stand at an important time. Roger Cooper>> Church and state have come into conflict on a high school campus and it's now up to a federal court to see if it can restore harmony. In Murrieta, I'm Roger Cooper for Life and Times. [Film Clip] Val Zavala>> Since that story first aired a year ago, a federal judge has ruled that the lawsuit by the Association of Christian Schools International can indeed go forward. The trial is expected to start in 2007. Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org and click on "Life and Times". Val Zavala>> Since Jimmy Carter left the White House in 1981, he's been a busy man. He's built homes for the poor, monitored elections in third world countries and won the Nobel Peace Prize. But nothing has triggered such biting criticism like his new book. "Palestine: Peace not Apartheid" has been assailed by some Jewish groups as being distorted, simplistic and biased against Israel. I talked with President Carter about what he intended to accomplish with the book. You've written more than twenty books, but this one by far is the most controversial. No doubt you chose the word "Apartheid" carefully, but why did you choose that word? Jimmy Carter>> Well, the title was very carefully considered. First of all, it's Palestine. It's not Israel. The book has nothing to do with what's going on inside Israel which is a wonderful democracy, you know, where everyone has guaranteed equal rights and where, under the law, Arabs and Jews who are Israelis have the same privileges about Israel. That's been most of the controversy because people assume it's about Israel. It's not. It's just about the occupied territories that's known as Palestine. I knew it was going to be provocative, but I really didn't look on the word provocative as negative. I wanted to provoke debate and discussion about a very important issue and hopefully lead to peace for Israel, permanent peace for Israel, and peace for its neighbors. But in this country, contrary to Europe and contrary to Israel where the issue is debated every day and discussions are hot and continuous, there is no discussion in this country to amount to anything that involves the plight of the Palestinians which is horrible. No one who goes to Palestine and sees what goes on could dispute anything in my book. It's a horrible case of Israeli occupying forces confiscating Palestinian land, colonizing it, forcing the Palestinians out and then persecuting the Palestinians when they complain about their land and property being taken away from them. This needs to be known and it is not. The so-called security fence is a euphemism for a wall made out of concrete. It's about twenty-five feet high and, in other places, it's forty feet high. That's a concrete wall as high as a four-story building and it's not designed to protect Israel from Palestinians because no place on this wall divides Israeli land from Palestinian land. It divides Palestinian land from other Palestinian land. Obviously, anybody knows that you could throw a baseball over a wall. You could certainly fire a mortar over a wall. You could fire rockets over a wall. So it's not designed to protect Israelis. It's designed to protect Palestinian land and to separate Palestinians from their own property. Val Zavala>> Some very prominent Jewish groups have criticized your book, intensely calling it biased, indecent, that it blames nearly everything on Israel. There's no question that a lot of people feel, well, if the Palestinians are in such terrible condition, it's the result of their own leadership and the Arab world not coming to their assistance. Do you agree that perhaps you blame Israel too much for their condition? Jimmy Carter>> No, no. As I said, the main thrust of the book is to try to get Israel to have peace inside their own property and that calls for a premise that the Israelis withdraw from Palestinian land and have peace. The Roadmap for Peace has been endorsed a hundred percent by the Palestinians. Every major facet of the Roadmap for Peace has been rejected by the Israeli government. So I'm just telling the truth. It's not anything that's innovative. It's just innovative in that, in this country, you never hear anything that might be critical of Israel's government policies. Val Zavala>> Why is that? Jimmy Carter>> One basic reason is -- I'm an evangelical Christian and I've taught, ever since I was eighteen years old, the bible. You know, there's a natural Christian orientation to be supportive of Israel, which I share. I think there's also a matter of an organization known as AIPAC, the American Israel Political Actions Committee, that's extremely effective. It's a lobbying group and I don't have any criticism of them. But they've been in existence since Eisenhower was president in ancient times. They know every nuance of that issue and their purpose is not to promote peace in the Middle East. It's to protect the policies of whatever Israel government is in power and to get the American people to support the Israeli government no matter what party it belongs to. They're extremely effective. So it makes it impossible for, say, a member of our Congress just to make a reasonable statement that "If I'm elected, I'm going to take a balanced position between Israel and the Palestinians" or "I'm going to insist that Israel just comply with international law" or "I'm going to try to defend the basic human rights of Palestinians". If a member of Congress said that, chances are he wouldn't be re-elected. Val Zavala>> Now you're very critical of Israel in your book, but you don't ignore what the Palestinians have done that is wrong. Jimmy Carter>> No. I point out very vividly in the book that it's horrible. Any sort of terrorist activity, any sort of death or destruction or wounding of an innocent civilian, is abhorrent to me and I think it's abhorrent to the international community and it ought to be stopped. As a matter of fact, Hamas that is attacked by many people has declared a cease-fire on itself in August of 2004 because they wanted to start running for public office for the first time. Not a single Israeli has lost a life to a Hamas act of violence since August of 2004. Val Zavala>> But at the same time, Hamas has refused to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. Jimmy Carter>> I'm not here to defend Hamas. I hope eventually an open discussion might lead to the resumption of the peace talks that have now been in abeyance or abandoned for six years. Otherwise, Israel will never have peace and never be able to have the recognition of all the rest of the world as a right to live in peace. That's my primary hope. Val Zavala>> So do you agree or disagree with President Carter? For other opinions and links to related websites, go to kcet.org and click on the Life and Times Blog. Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address: Life and Times 4401 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, California 90027 You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org. Larry Mantle>> Welcome to FilmWeek on Life and Times. I'm Larry Mantle of 89.3 KPCC. First up this week is the big musical, "Dreamgirls", starring Beyoncé Knowles, Jennifer Hudson, Eddie Murphy and Jamie Foxx, directed by Bill Condon. [Film Clip] Larry Mantle>> I'm joined this week by critics Jean Oppenheimer of Village Voice Media, and Lael Loewenstein of Variety. Jean, start us off, please, on "Dreamgirls". Jean Oppenheimer>> Larry, the first forty-five minutes of "Dreamgirls" was to me the most exciting, exhilarating thing I have seen on the screen this year or in many years. It's just electric. It's just wildly electric. After that point, I had a few minor complaints about the film that are really just a matter of personal preference and certainly will not affect everybody in a sort of negative way. One is, about forty-five minutes in, they start singing part of the dialogue. I just don't happen to like that. Now I never saw the stage play and I don't know whether the whole scene was singing or whether they sang the dialogue. But to me, it took me out of it. I didn't like it. The other thing is that Jennifer Hudson is just wonderful, but her big number which so many people loved, I felt was a little bit too much as though she was performing in front of an audience. I didn't feel it came from within her in the way that I did all of her other songs. Larry Mantle>> Lael, what did you think of "Dreamgirls"? Lael Loewenstein>> I liked it more than Jean did. You know, this is a show-stopping number, the one Jean's talking about. It's the number that made Jennifer Holiday a star and Hudson just takes it and walks away with it. She absolutely steals the picture at that point. She's tremendous. But everything else should be praised too. I mean, the production design really captures that moment. This is loosely based on the story of The Supremes and the whole kind of Motown era. That's all done very, very well. The lighting, the editing, is just superb the way it's all brought together. Most of all, Bill Condon who directed and who also wrote the script for "Chicago" really, I think, understands how to translate a musical to the screen. He makes it very, very cinematic. The thing about the dialogue didn't bother me so much. I found it dazzling and quite spectacular. Larry Mantle>> Our second film this week is the family drama, "The Pursuit of Happyness". It stars Will Smith and his real-life son, Jaden. [Film Clip] Larry Mantle>> Lael, what did you think of "The Pursuit of Happyness"? Lael Loewenstein>> Well, this is a predictable, but nevertheless very heartwarming and very poignant story based on a true story about a man, Chris Gardner, who falls on hard times and has to really almost literally almost pull himself up by his bootstraps to get back on the track to having a life. In the meantime, he's a single dad. In the film, the son is played by Will Smith's own son, Jaden Smith, and Smith, of course, plays his dad. So there's a really nice rapport that they have that's really captured on the screen. I liked the film. I did feel like it was pushing my buttons, you know, but nevertheless it worked and I was engaged. I was moved and a little teary at the end. Larry Mantle>> All right. What did you think, Jean? Jean Oppenheimer>> Well, I think that Will Smith has developed into a really fine actor. My guess is that he'll be nominated for a Best Actor this year, deservedly so. The film itself, I felt very much, I guess, a little bit like Lael did in that it was good, it was uplifting, it was inspirational, but to tell you the truth, the minute it was over, that was it for me. I think it went on a little bit too long. There's a running joke in it, you know, a little humor injected where he's running after people who have stolen a piece of equipment that he's trying to sell. I thought it was corny and didn't work at all. Overall, it's a very good film and an uplifting film, but one that left me afterwards without much to hold on to. Larry Mantle>> But you agree that the chemistry between real-life father and son comes through on the screen? Jean Oppenheimer>> Oh, yes, yes. I'll tell you, there's a scene at the very end when Will Smith does something just with his face and his eyes that is worth the entire film. Lael Loewenstein>> Yeah, yeah. It was great. Larry Mantle>> Next up is the family film, "Charlotte's Web". It stars Dakota Fanning and Julia Roberts and combines live action with computer-generated effects. [Film Clip] Larry Mantle>> Lael, what did you think of "Charlotte's Web"? Lael Loewenstein>> Well, I loved the book, so I came to this with great hopes. I have to say that it actually met my expectations. This is a very solid adaptation of the story about a girl, her pig and a spider. Of course, the pig is, you know, meant to be Christmas dinner and the spider, Charlotte, has to essentially save him by spinning these elaborate webs that say things like "some pig" or "terrific" or "radiant". This is brought to the attention of all the townspeople who decide that this is some kind of a special pig, and whether or not Wilbur is going to be killed hangs in the balance, so that's the story of the film. It's a lovely performance by Dakota Fanning as Fern. There are lots of nice voice-overs from Oprah Winfrey as Gussy, the goose, Julia Roberts as Charlotte. You know, lots of nice actors in there. It really captured the spirit of the book for me and I was transported back to the time when I read it as a child and I was moved to tears. Very sweet. Larry Mantle>> And finally this week, the drama, "The Good German", directed by Steven Soderbergh. It stars George Clooney, Cate Blanchett and Toby Maguire. [Film Clip] Larry Mantle>> Jean, "The Good German"? Jean Oppenheimer>> Well, Steven Soderbergh has been in an experimental mood for his last few films and I hope he's gotten it out of his system now (laughter). On a technical and stylistic level, "The Good German" is really extremely impressive. He wanted to take a film like "Casablanca" or "The Third Man" and make it today, but I think they used the same old type of lenses. I don't know what they used for the camera, but to really get that look and it's in black and white. Steven Soderbergh was the cinematographer under the name of Peter Andrews, a pseudonym. The problem I had with the film is that it's just very non-emotional. George Clooney, whom I worship (laughter), was not good at all. He just didn't have any real charisma in this. He almost seemed to be wondering why he was doing the film. So I think that some of the acting wasn't really up to snuff, but more than that, the story itself. You didn't feel any of this sort of "Casablanca"-like emotions. Larry Mantle>> Thanks for joining us for FilmWeek on Life and Times. I'm Larry Mantle of 89.3 KPCC joined by critics Lael Loewenstein of Variety, and Jean Oppenheimer of Village Voice Media. Please join us again next week for our year-end look at some of the biggest named films on the next FilmWeek on Life and Times. Val Zavala>> For the hour version of FilmWeek, listen to KPCC 89.3 on Fridays at eleven a.m. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. For everyone at Life and Times, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Sponsored in part by:  | |
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