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Life & Times Transcript
2/2/07 Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times -- Young recruits headed to Iraq are getting trained for more than warfare. Sgt. Robert Fisher>> I mean, I'm from the south. I don't mind a hug from another guy because, you know, that's what we in the south do. But a kiss on the cheek is not something you do in America. Val Zavala>> And then, from saddles to statues. Meet a western artist who has put his brand on Hollywood. It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times. Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Val Zavala>> President Bush wants to send more troops to Iraq and that would mean thousands of young men would go through training and not just learning how to fight, but learning how to deal with Iraqi culture and people. That's where an unusual site at Twentynine Palms Marine Base comes in. If you didn't know you were in the southern California desert, you would swear you were in the middle of Iraq. As reporter, Sheryl Kahn, tells us, that's giving some young recruits culture shock. Sheryl Kahn>> This is the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center in Twentynine Palms. [Film Clip] Sheryl Kahn>> Nine hundred thirty-two square miles of sand and stone, haunting and desolate. [Film Clip] Sheryl Kahn>> And perfect for training Marines who are headed to Iraq. [Film Clip] Sheryl Kahn>> The base is remote enough to do things like this. [Film Clip] Gunny Sgt. Chris Cox>> It's a very real situation. It's not a "start the game over if you get shot" kind of thing. It's taking care of ourselves, taking care of our own and, when they sign up to be a Marine, they're prepared to take risks. Sheryl Kahn>> The coaches, called "coyotes", are all Marines who've already served in Iraq. They're conducting a dress rehearsal for the performance of a lifetime with choreography that could keep their fellow Marines alive. >> "Find out what's wrong with that gun!" Sheryl Kahn>> But it's not all about firefights. They're also learning what it's like to step into a completely different world. [Film Clip] Sheryl Kahn>> Many of these young Marines have never even been out of the country, but in a matter of weeks, they'll be landing in a war-torn nation where at any moment they could be shot at. Explosives could be detonated near them. They may be targeted by insurgents in any number of ways. It's likely to be terrifying, deadly for some, and for most, a huge culture shock. That's why they're getting an initiation of sorts at this simulated Iraqi village. They call it Wadi al Sahara. [Film Clip] Major Scott Conway>> We try to replicate the environment as realistically as possible. We're constantly getting feedback to constantly improve the program and find ways to immerse the average Marine so the first time he goes to Iraq, it's not the first time he's got the experience. Sheryl Kahn>> That means traffic signs and graffiti are all in Arabic. So are license plates on older, well-worn vehicles because you don't see many brand new BMWs in Baghdad. Then there are the role players. They are mostly Iraqis who live in the United States now. They're flown in from all over the country to stay here in sparsely furnished trailers that stand in for typical Iraqi homes. They are paid for their work, but some, like forty-seven year old, Nidal Abbas, say they are not here for the money. Nidal Abbas>> Most of the Marines here are young, you know. When they went to Iraq, believe me, my heart go with them and I pray to them because I lost four brothers same age. Sheryl Kahn>> Abbas wants to help her country and she feels she can do that by helping the Marines. She knows these Marines will be leaving for Iraq in a couple of months and don't have much time to learn before they go. Nidal Abbas>> When I teach them, I need them to know everything. I wish I had three mouths, three tongues, you know, and everything and different kinds, you know. Sheryl Kahn>> For the young Marines -- Major Scott Conway>> The hardest thing for them to learn is simply to interact with that population, to be able to get up close and personal and talk to them. Sheryl Kahn>> And it is the up close and personal that's the hardest. Major Scott Conway>> Personal space issues. Americans like their personal space whereas Arab cultures like to be a lot closer. [Film Clip] Sheryl Kahn>> So Marines got to get used to that? Fathi Abbasi>> Well, some of them like to give them a hug, you know. Sheryl Kahn>> American Marines might not be used to that. Fathi Abbasi>> I understand, but they have to get used to it. Sheryl Kahn>> When he did that, what did you think? Sgt. Robert Fisher>> I kind of freaked out, you know. I mean, I'm from the south. You don't mind a hug from another guy because, you know, that's what we do in the south, but a kiss on the cheek is not something you do in America. Ahmed Il-Kasawi>> If I kiss someone, maybe he says, "Whoa, what's going on here?" So we have to just teach them some stuff, that's all. Sheryl Kahn>> Teach a Marine that it's okay to kiss a guy? Ahmed Il-Kasawi>> And not just a kiss, but everything because they don't know. My friend, I shake his hand and kiss him, so what? All Iraqi people are gay or what (laughter)? Sheryl Kahn>> But other scenarios are no laughing matter like when Marines have to search suspects in the middle of a hostile crowd. >> "I'm going to take your headdress off now." Sheryl Kahn>> Or conduct house-to-house searches for insurgents without hurting or offending innocent people. >> "I don't have anything to say." >> "What did he say?" >> "I have nothing to say, the way that you guys approached me." >> "Tell him that I apologize and is there any way I can mend that?" Sheryl Kahn>> Or man checkpoints where so many Marines and civilians have been killed. And react quickly to emergencies when fellow Marines could be dying right before their eyes. [Film Clip] Sheryl Kahn>> The coyote who's teaching these Marines is only twenty-four years old, but he's already been to Iraq and back and seen much worse than this because this, though shockingly realistic, is only a drill. [Film Clip] HN3 Jonathan Holland>> They go through something called combat paralysis, okay? It happens a lot in Iraq and we're teaching these guys before it happens. LNC Cpl. C. Martinez>> It definitely is a shocker. You don't expect to see something like that. Sheryl Kahn>> One day it might be real. LNC Cpl. C. Martinez>> Exactly. Sheryl Kahn>> So how do you feel about that? LNC Cpl. C. Martinez>> If it happens, I'm going to hopefully rely on my knowledge and do the best that I can to help that individual stay alive. Sheryl Kahn>> And that, they say, is what this is all about. >> They're going to go. Maybe they'll come back and maybe not. I mean, God bless them, we'll help them to come back. Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address: Life and Times 4401 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, California 90027 You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org. Val Zavala>> President Bush wants to send as many as twenty thousand additional troops to Iraq and that means that efforts to recruit would have to intensify. It would also re-ignite the debate over whether military recruiters should be allowed on campuses. Some law schools have challenged the military saying its discrimination against gays is reason enough to keep it off campus, but the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the military's right to recruit. For a look at both sides of the issue, we brought three people together around our kitchen table. Phillip Carter is an attorney and a former Army officer who spent a year in Iraq. Brian Chase is an attorney with Lambda Legal, an advocacy group for gays. David Lehrer of CommUnity Advocates, Inc. joins them at The Kitchen Table, a segment funded by Ralph Tornberg. David Lehrer>> People at law schools and even now at high schools are protesting the right of the military to come on campus. What seems to be going on? Phillip Carter>> I think, for a lot of people, this is a symbolic protest against the war. They don't agree with the war and they see the volunteer forces weakness as having to provide people on a regular basis. This is one way to say, in addition to casting your vote at the ballot box, sort of "Hell, no, I won't go" and "Don't come on my campus to try to recruit me or my kids." Fortunately, from my perspective, the Supreme Court has disagreed. As a veteran and someone who supports military recruiting, the Supreme Court has said that's not going to work. Congress has said that's not going to work. You must allow recruiters on campus. David Lehrer>> The protest seems to be focused mainly on anti-war and from the gay and lesbian communities historically. Brian Chase>> Exactly, exactly. Part of the reason the gay and lesbian community is so invested in this is that these schools have policies against discriminating. They don't let anybody else come on campus who is going to discriminate against gay and lesbian students. David Lehrer>> Are there lots of cases of discrimination? Or are the cases of, you know, really egregious discrimination where a lesbian officer is outed? Are those anomalous cases or is it fairly widespread? Brian Chase>> I don't know every anecdote, but I know there are thousands of discharges a year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that there are thousands of discharges under "don't ask, don't tell" a year, so it's not isolated incidences. As a matter of fact, it's been going up every year since the policy was enacted. David Lehrer>> Now you have argued. I know I've read your article in "Slate" that, in fact, there's a very good public policy reason why the military, notwithstanding their discrimination against gays and lesbians, ought to be allowed to recruit on campus. Phillip Carter>> Right. There's a few of them. One is that the best way to change the military's policy is probably from within, so you want a lot of these campuses to push their graduates into service, which makes change happen over time. You know, I went to UCLA Law School and a number of friends there were gay or lesbian. That familiarity and that friendship went with me into the military. I don't really have a problem with it. Maybe if I chose to stay in, in twenty years, I might become your organization's best ally because I could then speak out against the policy. But it seems like when Yale and Harvard and Berkeley and other schools push the military away, I think they do more harm than good for their efforts. Brian Chase>> You're absolutely right. I mean, the military is far more likely to have an understanding of gay and lesbian people if they're recruiting out of UCLA and Berkeley and Columbia and Yale than they are if they're recruiting out of Ole Miss and Texas A&M. Not that they're not fine schools, but they're not renowned to have any huge gay and lesbian communities. Phillip Carter>> Another good argument, I think, is that the military's presence on campus creates a sort of marketplace of ideas as a factor. Their best way to respond to discrimination, in my opinion, is not to boot the recruiters off, but to invite them on and to have noisy dissent about their presence and educate all parties involved. Brian Chase>> But I don't think these kind of bans really threaten. They are, like you said before, mostly symbolic. I mean, there are plenty of other ways that the military can reach out to these students. They can certainly leave fliers with them. They can find them in other ways. But this is just specifically banning them from using one service that all schools provide. Phillip Carter>> And that's true in the law school and college context, but if you look at high school recruiting which is really the bread and butter of the military, you know, ninety percent of the force is enlisting when they come out of high schools, recruiting is absolutely essential. The saying that it's an all-volunteer force is kind of a misnomer. It's really a recruited force. It takes sergeants and petty officers going into schools and saying here are the options. Here is the scholarship money you can earn. Here are the benefits that you can get. David Lehrer>> Well, it turns out this year that Seattle almost had a proposition on the ballot to ban military recruiters from high schools. Brian Chase>> Again, the question is, who should control that? The local parents or the Congress? David Lehrer>> Well, if you were a Congressman and you're responsible for the maintenance of the military, I imagine you'd want to have say in it as opposed to allowing God knows how many thousands of jurisdictions to decide willy-nilly yes or no, you can't go on campus or you can go on campus. Brian Chase>> But that wouldn't foreclose military recruiting of high school students. I mean, you can't flip on the television without seeing plenty of ads to join the military, so there are other avenues that the military can take and still allow local communities and universities to take a stand on the issues. Phillip Carter>> But none of those are really as important or as effective as that sergeant coming into a school and making the personal connection. There's a bigger problem here and that's where we put the burden of service. We're a country at war and I fear that letting communities make up their minds about recruiters coming on campus might have a tremendously disparate effect across the country. You know, Cambridge, Massachusetts and Santa Monica, where I'm from. They might not allow recruiters and then you get no kids from those communities entering the military and that's bad for the country. I don't know that I support that. I think parents should have the choice and individuals should have the choice. Communities tend to do things for political reasons and really there should be a personal choice based on everyone's circumstances. David Lehrer>> Yeah, it's very stratified where you have the poorer segments, the elements, going into the military and the more affluent. Simply, they'd never been allowed on campus and there won't be a hell of a lot of recruitment in those communities. Phillip Carter>> Right, and this is already a problem, right? Because the military already, through its opportunities and benefits, draws disproportionately not from the very poor, but from the working class and middle class. Increasing that is not a good thing for the country. We are a strong democracy, I think, in part because we spread the burden of service. Anything that goes against that worries me. David Lehrer>> If you could by fiat decide this issue, how would you come down? Brian Chase>> If I had my druthers, it wouldn't be an issue because the military wouldn't be discriminating. If the military gets the exception, then how about employers with strong religious beliefs that they should be able to fire or discriminate against gay and lesbian people? It's much easier to enforce a rule when it doesn't have an exception. David Lehrer>> Where would you come down on high schools? Phillip Carter>> Well, high schools are where the real action is. I mean, the military doesn't need that many lawyers, but it needs a whole lot of high school graduates to be the privates and the corporals and the sergeants in the military. This is a real problem, you know. Right now, less than one percent of our country serves in uniform. We're at war, but you wouldn't know it walking around the street and talking to people. I really feel that we need to have the broadest possible mechanism for recruiting young people to join the military. That includes allowing recruiters to cast their net as widely as possible. You know, I really do worry that students from my hometown of Santa Monica will not be given the opportunity to join the military. Again, you'll have students from more conservative and more rural and maybe more working class communities coming in. It sets up a real inequity of service and one that I think would be destructive to our country in the long run. David Lehrer>> We all want to be all that we can be even if we're not in the military, with one exception. I want to thank you, Phil, and thank you, Brian, for joining us. Brian Chase>> Thank you. Phillip Carter>> Thank you very much. Val Zavala>> So what do you think of military recruiters on campus? You can post your opinion on our Blog. Just go to kcet.org and click on the Life and Times Blog. Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times". Hena Cuevas>> 2007 marks the one hundredth anniversary of legendary Hollywood cowboy, Gene Autry. Visitors to his museum, the Autry National Center here at Griffith Park, are greeted by a large bronze statue of the singing cowboy and his horse. The intricate details on the leather items are the creation of an eighty-eight year old artist at Studio City whose work is to keep that western tradition alive. Walking into Al Shelton's studio is like stepping into the past back to a time when land was plenty and horses ran wild. Al Shelton>> I was about twelve years old and I made up my mind that I wanted to be a cowboy and a horse breaker. Hena Cuevas>> He eventually became a cowboy, but not for long. In 1943, Shelton began the career of a lifetime working as a high-end leather carver. Al Shelton>> Every once in a while, I'd meet up with somebody that had a carved saddle. I thought, boy, that's beautiful, and I would study the work. Then I even started trying to carve leather myself. I didn't have any leather, so I started carving on my saddle. Hena Cuevas>> But even without any formal training, his work was good enough to land him an apprenticeship. Al Shelton>> So I was just a freelance leather carver. I went around and I picked up accounts. I took my samples with me, you know, and they liked my carving. I didn't have any trouble finding work, you know. Hena Cuevas>> But then Hollywood called. It was the 1950s, the golden age of westerns, and it wasn't long before his favorite movie star found him. [Film Clip] Al Shelton>> And I was doing hand-carved guitar cases. Never seen anything like that before, and Gene Autry wanted one. I don't know how he got me, but somebody told him. [Film Clip] Hena Cuevas>> Shelton made Gene Autry two guitar cases and a few engraved briefcases. Along the way, he also began oil painting and bringing back to life images of his childhood in Colorado and Wyoming. He also learned how to work bronze. Announcer>> "Gunsmoke, starring William Conrad." Al Shelton>> William Conrad. He was "Gunsmoke" on the radio. "Gunsmoke" had me do buckles for them, see, and that was my first buckle. Hena Cuevas>> These are some of the belt buckles he makes. Most of them have the names of the television shows that commissioned them, and it was a buckle that brought him face to face with Sylvester Stallone. Al Shelton>> He wanted me to make a buckle for "Rocky 2", so I did. That's what started it and then I made a director's chair for him with his picture on it and everything. Then he got that big blonde girl and I think he married her. I did a fancy chair for her too, but I never did finish it. They got mad at each other. Hena Cuevas>> As a token of appreciation, Stallone gave him the boxing gloves used in the movie. Shelton's is a precise art. First, the leather must be damp to soften it. Al Shelton>> That's just water. Hena Cuevas>> He then begins to pound the outlines of the image. [Film Clip] Hena Cuevas>> These chisels are then used to carve the design. Al Shelton>> I'm starting to get a flower in here, see. It's just my way of doing it. Hena Cuevas>> He says he's not getting as much work anymore. Right now, his biggest project is this guitar case for a museum in Pennsylvania. Al Shelton>> They said they wanted my best work. My best work includes raised centers. I still have to do all this around here. I've been trying to get myself going on that. I haven't been able to get it going, but here's the back. I did get this back done. Hena Cuevas>> The back side is his pride and joy. Al Shelton>> That's my picture and my horse, Buck, and my cat, Teddy. You see the brand on my guitar, hat, horse, canteen, but I didn't have the heart to brand Teddy, my kitty. Hena Cuevas>> Shelton was able to combine his skills in leather and bronze when he helped sculpt the Gene Autry statue that's at the entrance of the museum. It may be bronze, but the details on the leather items make them seem very real. His boots, his belt buckle, the saddle. Al Shelton>> Not many artists live to enjoy their work. You know, they have to sell out before now at any price. You know, they just have to sell out. Yet I was lucky. I'm still paying the rent (laughter). The years have gone by and I think it's time I retire, but I'll tell you, I still want to stay here. I don't want to go anyplace. Hena Cuevas>> A true urban cowboy that's keeping the west alive one leather piece at a time. I'm Hena Cuevas for Life and Times. Val Zavala>> We, the residents of a metropolis in the twenty-first century, like to think of ourselves as civilized and yet courtesy seems to be in short supply sometimes and that prompted Life and Times commentator, Cris Franco, to come up with a few rules for the rude. Cris Franco>> Recently, New York was voted the most polite city in the world. How the city that never sleeps, crammed with crabby cabbies, that sometimes forgets to dress, is a more polite place? More civilized than Los Angeles? "Hold that elevator, please. Please hold that elevator. Hold the elevator. Hold that elevator. Hold, hold!!" New York more polite than Los Angeles? Maybe. Like everyone in Los Angeles, I am very competitive. I win again. [Film Clip] Cris Franco>> Well, next year I want to kick their rude booty. I want for Los Angeles to be voted the world's most courteous city. [Film Clip] Cris Franco>> Hence, my quick guide to making Los Angeles a more polite place. First, when in West Hollywood, it is considered appropriate to hold the door for someone, even if you're not sure of their gender. [Film Clip] Cris Franco>> Or their species. Second, don't tailgate McCommuters sipping hot coffee. A third-degree McJava burn does not make for a very happy meal. Oh, McDarn it! Who's going to clean up this mess? Third, even in the hoitiest of eateries, a fifteen percent tip is considered sufficient. [Film Clip] Cris Franco>> Unless your radish garnish has been sculpted into a bird or a star or into your likeness, or if your actor waiter happens to have a very high-powered agent. How do I get out of here? Fourth, multiple personality disorder sufferers are allowed to drive alone in the diamond lanes providing that at least one of their personalities has a valid driver's license. Fifth, it is permissible to send a thank-you note to your ex's new fiancé. Thank you! Children of surrogate parents should honor Fathers and Mothers Days by sending flowers to their surrogate mothers and flower seeds to their surrogate fathers (laughter). Get it? And don't underestimate the power of saying please and thank you in English, Spanish, French, Farsi, Russian, Armenian, Chinese and Tagalog. These are the magic words that make living in the City of Angels just a little bit more heavenly. Thanks for listening and, please, take my recommendations to heart. I think that next year Los Angeles can be voted the world's most polite city. I hope I didn't take up too much of your time. "Oh, allow me." >> "Salamet." Val Zavala>> And may I extend our sincere gratitude to all of you who have made time in your busy day to join us for this edition of Life and Times. I'm Val Zavala. We'll see you next time. Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Sponsored in part by:  | |
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