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Life & Times Transcript
2/16/07 Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times -- Dozens of people spend years in jail for crimes they didn't commit. Does the state owe them something for lost time? Tom Goldstein>> I was released with a white jumpsuit with these bright yellow sleeves carrying a bag with some legal material, two apples and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Val Zavala>> And then, heard any good, clean jokes lately? One group of comics is trying to buck the trend in standup comedy. It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times. Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. With additional support for Life and Times from The Ralph M. Parsons Foundation. Toni Guinyard>> People who are erroneously convicted of a felony in the state of California have the right to file what's called a 4900 claim. It would provide compensation for every day spent behind bars after the conviction, but some people who are eligible to file the claim say that they don't think they will ever see any money. This is Harold Hall. Harold Hall>> "Hi. Let me check your profile right quick so I can find out exactly where you're at right now." Toni Guinyard>> He was accused, tried and convicted of murder. He even confessed to the crime, but he did not do it. Harold Hall>> People want to know, well, why would you confess and I finally explained to people that, to me, it's a mental torture. Toni Guinyard>> Hall spent nineteen years behind bars before his conviction was determined to be erroneous, a mistake, his confession coerced. Wrongfully convicted people like Hall have the option of filing a claim under California Penal Code 4900 to get compensated for time spent in prison. As of 2001, the amount was boosted from a flat sum of ten thousand dollars to one hundred dollars a day for every day the person was in imprisoned after conviction. Harold Hall>> They tell the public, well, yeah, you know, you can get a hundred dollars a day, but that's not true. You know, they always put that out there. Yeah, well, you know, he done this time and now he can get a hundred dollars a day. That's not true. You have to go to court. You have to fight for it. The majority of inmates who fight for it don't really get it. Toni Guinyard>> As Hall found out, even if a court finds you are wrongly convicted, eligibility rests on the claimant proving that they did not commit the crime or that the crime never took place, they suffered financially as a result of imprisonment, and did not intentionally or negligently contribute to their arrest or conviction. Harold Hall>> Because I confessed to this crime, that would be one of the reasons why I couldn't get it because I wouldn't quality for it. Tom Goldstein>> I didn't realize how impossible the actual incident standard was to me. Toni Guinyard>> Like Hall, Tom Goldstein was convicted of murder. He spent twenty-four years in prison before his release in 2004. Tom Goldstein>> One of the things in prison is that you develop a fantasy of what it's going to be like when you're released from prison. I think the longer you're in (laughter), the more fantastic the fantasy is and there's really nothing like that. I was released with a white jumpsuit with these bright yellow sleeves carrying a bag with some legal material, two apples and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and that's all I had. Ron Kaye>> A 4900 claim is a good effort by the state of California to help these people who have been so wronged, but it has tremendous flaws and they need to be corrected. Toni Guinyard>> Pasadena attorney, Ron Kaye, represents Tom Goldstein. Is it possible to really pay you or compensate you for the period of time you spent behind bars? Tom Goldstein>> (Laughter) You can't give me back my twenty-four years. Toni Goldstein>> Did you file a claim for your client? Ron Kaye>> Yes, we did. Toni Guinyard>> And the outcome? Ron Kaye>> At this time, it's still pending. In our case, we are waiting to pursue our federal civil rights action and then pursue the claim. Toni Guinyard>> If we can't give you back this period of time, why go after this money? Tom Goldstein>> Well, you have to understand that we haven't had any money for twenty-four years. We haven't built into a social security system. We're re-entering society and, you know, there are things that we need. Toni Guinyard>> Pursuing the claim will not be easy. Ron Kaye>> So few claims are filed, first and foremost, and so few people know about it. Secondly, you have six months statute of limitations to file these claims. Toni Guinyard>> Attorney Kaye says one of the biggest hurdles is the State Attorney General. Ron Kaye>> The Attorney General of the state of California writes the recommendation about whether an individual should receive compensation. The Attorney General of the state of California has spent years and years in court trying to prevent that same individual from getting released. Toni Guinyard>> From 2001 to date, the State Victim Compensation and Government Claims Board considered twenty-five erroneous conviction claims. Seventeen were denied. Eight claims have been approved totaling more than three million dollars. An additional ten are pending. Tom Goldstein>> The system doesn't make it easy for us. I don't think it was their intent to make this 4900 claim as impossible as it is and I think there are certain efforts in the works to rewrite the law. Toni Guinyard>> In 2005, then State Assemblyman Paul Koretz introduced Assembly Bill 851, legislation aimed in part at amending the law. Paul Koretz>> Every single person that's wrongfully convicted deserves to have their record cleared and deserves to have at least some modest financial remuneration for the state's mistake. Toni Guinyard>> The proposed bill also called for extending the filing period from six months to two years. The legislation failed. Paul Koretz>> Well, I think people were afraid of the high expense, also if we made it easier to get full restitution, if we made it a less difficult process because that would cost the state money. Toni Guinyard>> Koretz hopes another legislator will pick up where he left off. Paul Koretz>> If you don't take up the cause of someone who was wrongfully convicted, it's not going to impact your life. It's not going to harm your political career. If you take up a cause like this, it's not going to be of any great help to you. It's just the right thing to do. Toni Guinyard>> But Harold Hall decided that he's going to move forward rather than wait for someone to help him just because it's the right thing to do. He's enjoying his new life telling Life and Times Paul Vercammen that, after nineteen years of being behind bars, he finds pleasure in something as simple as the freedom to be outside and enter through a gate at work rather than being inside a prison gate unable to get out. Harold Hall>> They say their name, the gate opens, and they're allowed to go in. So I decided, you know, that's what I wanted. I come to work on a Saturday, I pull up here, I say my name and that gate opens and that gives me so much joy. I mean, more joy than you could ever imagine. Toni Guinyard>> And you can't miss the cuff on his wrist, "Exoneree Freedom Isn't Free". Harold Hall>> I look at it as to where I won. You thought you won, but I won. I won in a lot of respects and, you know, I'm happy, I'm out, I'm alive. Toni Guinyard>> I'm Toni Guinyard for Life and Times. Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times". Val Zavala>> The future does not look good for the middle class in southern California or the nation, for that matter. Salaries at the top have been mushrooming and wages at the bottom have been shrinking. Yet it was precisely a growing healthy middle class that built California's economy. So what has changed and what can we do to reverse the trend? For some answers, we brought three people together around our Kitchen Table. Wally Knox, former California Assembly member and Director of the Institute for the Middle Class; John Husing, economist and Director of Economics in Politics, Inc., an economic think tank. Also joining them is David Lehrer from CommUnity Advocates, Inc. Our segment is funded by Ralph Tornberg. David Lehrer>> Well, gentlemen, the predictions are that southern California will grow by five million in residence by the year 2030, the housing market has been damaged recently, interest rates are rising, energy costs are high, school systems are clearly a mess, low income housing is in short supply, government budgets are going -- John Husing>> -- can I leave now (laughter)? David Lehrer>> And the consensus seems to be the middle class is in danger. What's going on? Wally Knox>> I think the middle class is in danger, David. My general perspective is that Los Angeles and southern California in general was middle class heaven during the era of the Cold War and we became very used to rising family incomes. A family in the 1960s, median income floated in at thirty-three thousand dollars a year. It floated up to forty-five thousand dollars a year in 1990 and it felt like it was a natural geologic occurrence. John Husing>> The infrastructure worked, the educational system worked, all of that during those periods of time partially because southern California, when it was growing up in those periods, was one of the most competitive economies in the world. We could beat almost anybody in anything because of our labor force, because of our infrastructure, because of the well-educated population we had. David Lehrer>> And then what happened? John Husing>> And then what happened is a lot of that began to go away. I think a lot of it went away is that we began to build out some of the areas. In Los Angeles County in particular, I think economies go through cycles and the cycle that it finally got to was they sort of believed that it was their right to have an economy like that. When you believe that you're right, you're probably on the first step of falling off the cliff because you're not worried about competitors. Wally Knox>> We've lost forty percent of our manufacturing base in Los Angeles County and we haven't woken up to that fact at all. David Lehrer>> For fifty years, we didn't gain a job in Los Angeles. John Husing>> Not one job added. Wally Knox>> Employment has been flat at best. David Lehrer>> Population has increased. Wally Knox>> Population is not only increasing, David. The population is accelerating. The growth in population today is faster than it was in 1999, so we have fewer jobs in Los Angeles County and faster population. John Husing>> Yeah, a hundred thousand fewer jobs, but faster population growth. Basically think of it as a doughnut. All of the suburban areas have been adding jobs. You've got reverse commuting going out of Los Angeles now to jobs in other places because they've not been created equal. Wally Knox>> Part of the problem -- and I think John actually has written on this topic -- is that we've grown used to the idea that the only jobs that could really be good jobs, high-paying jobs, for people who don't really have Bachelors degrees are classic manufacturing jobs and we're losing those. David Lehrer>> And those aren't coming back, but losing and gone. Wally Knox>> Losing and gone, and not coming back. John Husing>> But the Chinese agreed with us. They decided to adopt capitalism. Oops! (laughter). David Lehrer>> But your point is that, if there is a growth industry in the infrastructure dealing with the goods that come through southern California for which most industrial manufacturers have no choice but to send their products through Los Angeles or Long Beach. John Husing>> The depth of the ports which can handle the big ships that are bringing this -- there's only two competitors: Seattle and Vancouver on the west coast. We have huge advantages. There are environmental issues that have to be solved, but what you need are jobs that a person who is not well-educated can start out with a fairly good income at the beginning and then go up a career ladder to middle class. You need to be competitive for those sorts of things and, when you find them, you have to mine them. We have that in the business and distribution. Wally Knox>> We grew used to the idea that, if you lack the Bachelors Degree or a Masters Degree, the only way you could get a really good middle class paying job was hard-core durable goods manufacturing. You made a car, and you made a lot of money. But if you got into the services industry, you were going to be stuck with a salary one third that level. That was true in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. But what John is talking about is there is a new revolution going on in a lot of the services industries. David Lehrer>> Okay. So if we acknowledge the fact that the middle class is decreasing, that there is an opportunity to recreate a new middle class for people to move up through this infrastructure -- John Husing>> -- that's one piece of that. David Lehrer>> One piece of it. How would government respond? Is our government agencies saying, I mean, we have passed forty million dollars in bonds and -- John Husing>> -- and a lot of that is goods movement, though it's only a down payment. Part of what we have to figure out is how do you fund it using the private sector tolls and all the rest of that because there's not enough money on the public side to do it? But another crucial piece of this is that, in Los Angeles County, over forty percent of the population that is the college class, in the Inland Empire where I do most of my work which is exactly 6.1, you need adult workforce education to get people on a -- and we don't know how to do this. How do you train large numbers of people who can work in offices where you do have a lot of good-paying work, but it requires some kind of training? David Lehrer>> By a community college? John Husing>> A community college system is what you would hope would get you there. A community college system operates too slowly. As a former community college professor, I've come to the conclusion that what you've got to do is probably by private sector schools. Wally Knox>> You're going to have to create, I would say, a new kind of alliance between the public and private sector in that educational realm in which education is closely tailored to what an individual business needs. David Lehrer>> I just have a question. With the bonds that we just passed, was it kind of a unique moment because of the stars aligned, that the governor was a Republican who was able to align -- John Husing>> -- I live in San Bernardino County. We passed a transportation measure to raise taxes at eighty percent. Now when did eighty percent of the public -- I think the other twenty percent were drunk (laughter). David Lehrer>> What were the eighty percent drinking? John Husing>> (Laughter) Everyone's on the freeway. You know you need your infrastructure. It's obvious, and they're willing to pay for it. David Lehrer>> But then you run into the whole nimby thing. John Husing>> Well, no. What you run into is a Republican party that does not understand -- and this is one of the political pieces -- that when you raise taxes to invest in an infrastructure, it is called investment, and a society with any brains does it. Wally Knox>> Back in the 1950s and the 1960s when we built the K through 12 educational system in the state of California, it wasn't built by the state government. It wasn't built by the federal government. It was built by the local school boards who were dominated by the Republican party, but they wanted schools for children and they were absolutely right. Today in the Latino community in the Los Angeles area, you have over a third with less than nine years' education and less than half have graduated from high school. Hence, the need -- and I agree with Mayor Villaraigosa -- they should really take K through 12 education seriously. That's what I would add. John Husing>> What you need to do is to say that the most important thing in the economy is to help create a middle class. You do that by becoming competitive. Wally Knox>> Bingo. John Husing>> How do you become competitive? Number one, education, crucial. Adult education and bringing up the next generation so that they're not running into the same problem. David Lehrer>> We're doing our own little attempt at education by talking about what probably is the most important issue today in southern California. Thank you, John, and thank you, Wally. Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address: Life and Times 4401 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, California 90027 You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org. Val Zavala>> Does standup comedy have to be raunchy or racist to be funny? You would think so by going to nightclubs or watching the Comedy Channel. And that side of comedy was on full display when comedian, Michael Richards, launched into his now famous tirade. Michael Richards got angry at some audience members, reacting with the repeated use of the "N" word. He was roundly criticized and apologized. Now a group of comics say it's time to offer something cleaner. A.J. Jamal is a comic and actor and member of a Christian comic association. So, A.J., as a clean comedian, a Christian comedian, what was your first reaction when you saw the Michael Richards clip using the "N" word and being disrespectful to people? A.J. Jamal>> Well, I was a little shocked, but as a comedian, I actually said, wow, you want to close your show with a big ending, but not that. I think that's the biggest ending you can close with (laughter). And then I said, wow, you know, he's going to be in a lot of trouble, but as an actor, I think he just got in a position where he didn't know how to get out. That's probably what it was. He was in too deep. Val Zavala>> But regardless, if he was in a tough spot or not, his reaction was part of a problem that you see in standup comedy overall, no? A.J. Jamal>> Yes, it's a problem. Especially it's a problem when it's a white guy or a Jewish guy saying it (laughter). I think it's a bigger problem there. It's a problem when you see like a black guy, urban guy, minority or whoever, when he's saying the word. But then there's that key thing they say is how you say it, you know. That's a problem too. I don't think the word should be, you know, coming out of peoples' mouths at all. That's my opinion. Val Zavala>> So if you had your actions, the "N" word would just be banned, would not be used in comedy. A.J. Jamal>> Not at all. I don't even use it, but then again, I'm a clean comedian. I don't use that word on stage or off stage. You know, it's just a derogatory word and I don't use it. There's a lot of derogatory words and not just the "N" word you don't use. There's certain words like, you know, on the gay people. I mean, they're people, and it's a derogatory word. Val Zavala>> But why do you think that so much of the standard fare of standup comedy is, you know, misogynist and racist and crude sexually? Has this become like that's what standup comedy is? How did that happen? A.J. Jamal>> Well, a lot of young comedians that came up thought the only way they could create the laughter is using words like that. Sometimes that's the only thing that they see on television. There was a huge urban show called Def Comedy Jam. I mean, I love the show. It's just that a lot of young kids saw those comedians and that's the only type of comedy they were seeing. Comic after comic after comic was doing that kind of comedy. So when they look at it, they go, hey, when I grow up, I want to be like that kind of comedian. Whereas, I've always just focused on the clean type of comedy. I can watch Bill Cosby and, even though he wasn't the funniest person when I was young, as I got older, he became the funniest person I knew. It's a thing that you make a selection on. I don't have to curse to be funny. If more people got an understanding that not only do I not have to be curse to be funny, but if the networks would show that comedy type of stuff, especially when you see urban comedians. You see urban comedians personally like the white collar tour and the blue collar tour. They're clean comedians, you know. Then you start seeing the stereotypes of, well, maybe the whites are clean and the blacks aren't clean. Not just the comedians. I'm talking about across the board. You don't see too many shows where the networks are putting out clean urban comedians. Val Zavala>> And that's what the Official Christian Comedy Association is promoting, clean comics on shows and DVDs like this one. Akintunde>> "Imagine, Jonah, you been stuck in the belly of a whale for three days. You got to come up and tell your wife this. A whale, Jonah? A whale? A whale? A whale, Jonah, a whale? That's the best you can do?" Bob Nelson>> "They take the hair that they got on the side. This is just a sin. You want to talk about sins? Here you go. Ever see these guys? They put the hair on the top of their head and they actually walk around going, hey, I'm not bald." Chinnitta Morris>> "You know, you can tell a nasty woman because you go to her house, you know, roaches everywhere. Roaches answer the door, "He's here." House so nasty, the roaches got on footies. This don't make no sense. I done lost three legs in this house." A.J. Jamal>> We're letting people know that there are clean comedians and people can have a good time with family comedy. We're putting it out there and publicizing it. That's the key thing, the marketing of it. If we get it shown somewhere, even shows like this, it's perfect because people are seeing that it's a clean comedian, you know. Once people start seeing it, like psychologically they see it on television and they say, "I want to be a comedian like A.J. Jamal." Not knowing A.J. Jamal didn't curse. They just say, "I want to be like A.J. Jamal because I see him on television." Or just give us a million dollars, all the clean comedians, just give us a couple million, and then people say, "Hey, you're a clean comedian. You make millions." (laughter). Maybe I should start wearing bling. I should start wearing bling-bling and diamond rings and be clean. Then they can go -- Val Zavala>> -- and then people say, "I want to be like -- A.J. Jamal>> -- "I want to be like him." Andrea Woodfolk>> "We all need to try and be more thankful to God. I mean, because He's done a lot and we feel we're a little ungrateful. Now He gave his Son, did he not? He didn't have to do that, but He did, right? But we're still ungrateful. So He said, "What can I do next?" You know what He did? Dropped the late fees at Blockbuster. You see what I'm saying? Robert Duckworth>> "I have discovered the reason that church lasts so long to be the preachers. And not only do they talk slow, preachers tend to stutter. And, and, and, and, and, and, when, when, when, when, when, when we talk slow, God tends to listen." Val Zavala>> So if I want to see clean comedians, do I have to go specifically to a clean comedian club or how does that work? A.J. Jamal>> As far as clean comedy, what I suggest is that sometimes you go and see a clean comedian, the other two comedians may not be clean. So you and me both have to sit and watch, you know, what's coming out on stage. Val Zavala>> But you will perform right next to a comedian who's raunchy and racist? A.J. Jamal>> Yes, I will perform. I don't like to because I don't like to hear a lot of that. I mean, some of it can be funny, but when you go back to back and it's not clever funny -- like Richard Pryor. He didn't really curse that much. At one point in his career, he said he would stop using the "N" word. He had went to Africa and came back. So Richard Pryor, if you watch his material, he didn't use the curse words just to throw out there. He just totally used curse words when he needed to. Whereas, comics now you just hear -- Val Zavala>> -- every other word, the "F" word. A.J. Jamal>> Every other word. If you only heard it once or twice, it would be comedy like your mom's, you know (laughter). My mom was pulling out a curse word every now and then. Val Zavala>> And it meant something (laughter). A.J. Jamal>> And it meant something, and she was from the church (laughter). Val Zavala>> Well, A.J. Jamal, thank you so much for bucking the trend, you and your organization. We really appreciate it. A.J. Jamal>> The Original Christian Comedy Organization. We're giving our people awards this week. I might even win an award. Val Zavala>> It's actually Official Christian Comedy Association. A.J. Jamal>> Official, thank you. My memory is good. It's just short. It's just short. I have a great memory. It's just short (laughter). There you go. Val Zavala>> If you'd like to learn more about these clean comics, you can go to their website. Just go to officialchristiancomedy.com. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. For everyone at Life and Times, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. With additional support for Life and Times from The Ralph M. Parsons Foundation. Sponsored in part by:  | |
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