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Life & Times Transcript
4/18/07 This program is made possible in part by a grant from the City of Los Angeles Cultural Affairs Department. Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times -- They fought in another unpopular war. Does that give them a special bond with Iraq War vets? Jim Alvarez>> You have to understand that only a veteran can understand what war smells like, the taste of war, the smell of war. There's a lot of sounds. Val Zavala>> And then, how do you make a great painting? Sometimes even a great artist like Ed Moses can't tell you. It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times. Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Val Zavala>> It's a small town of about sixty-five thousand people, but it's borne more than its share of Iraq casualties. Five young people, all from one high school, have died in the war. Toni Guinyard went to the town of Hemet about two hours southeast of Los Angeles and she talked with some Vietnam vets who say that they feel a special bond toward the Iraq soldiers because you can't understand war unless you've been through it. >> "Hemet is a very patriotic town." Toni Guinyard>> The Riverside County community of Hemet has suffered a devastating series of losses in the war in Iraq. It has to do with the number of one-time residents killed in action. Larry Stroud>> It's very hard to put your finger on as to why Hemet has as many KIAs as we do. I don't know if anybody knows that maybe besides God. Toni Guinyard>> Vietnam vet Larry Stroud is Commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Post 12023 in Hemet. Larry Stroud>> Our community is becoming well-known throughout the nation because of the per capita of people that we have living here in relationship to the number of troops that have been killed out of one high school. Toni Guinyard>> It's tough to talk about the Iraq War casualties without mentioning Hemet High. On the second floor at one end of its Freedom Tron is a small plaque with the names and images of five Hemet High graduates who have been killed in the Iraq conflict. The names read like roll call: Jason Chappell, Class of 2000; Charles Sare, Class of 2001; Michael Estrella, Class of 2003; Ken Stanton, Class of 2004; and Keith Yoakum, Class of 1984. Larry Stroud>> What most people don't realize yet is that there's three more in this valley that have been killed in action from San Jacinto Unified School District and two other high schools in the area, but Hemet has the most per capita in the state of California. Toni Guinyard>> And the state of California has more Iraq War casualties, three hundred fifty-four at the time this report was written, than any other state in the nation, some of whom are buried at Riverside National Cemetery, the final resting place for veterans of wars past and present. Sergeant Charles Hayes>> "I'm fifty feet behind the truck." Toni Guinyard>> At our request, Commander Stroud assembled a group of Hemet's VFW members. We wanted to hear from them and wondered how the wartime deaths have affected each of them and this city of just over sixty-six thousand. Sergeant Charles Hayes>> I was almost one of them, you know. I thank God every day that I'm home. Toni Guinyard>> Army Sergeant Charles Hayes is a former Hemet High student and a Purple Heart veteran. He served in Iraq with his older brother, Jason, a member of the Army National Guard. Jason Hayes>> September 8, 2004, my brother hit an IED. Sergeant Charles Hayes>> Almost being killed, I'm more thankful for my children. Every day that I'm here with them is great. Jason Hayes>> He was out for about a month and then he told the PA, "I need to go back out there with my guys. I can't be here. I need to go back out there with my guys" and he got back out there. Toni Guinyard>> Proud of your brother. Jason Hayes>> I'm proud of my brother just like I know he's proud of me and our dad is very proud of both of us. He's told us that. Larry Stroud>> At the time that they joined, they didn't know there was going to be a 9/11. They didn't know that there was going to be an enormous increase in terrorist activity throughout the world. But at the age that they are, I'm proud to know them as friends. Toni Guinyard>> Vietnam vet Jim Alvarez is a Purple Heart recipient retired from the Navy. Fellow Vietnam vet, Richard Cabrera, a Bronze Star with V for Valor and Purple Heart recipient is retired from the Army. Pam Stroud, Commander Stroud's wife, joined in the conversation. We sat back and learned by listening. Sergeant Charles Hayes>> It's almost easier to be there because you have more sense of purpose and you know what you're going to do every day. Jason Hayes>> Yeah, I was one of the lucky ones. I came home along with my brother. But if I had a chance to go back, I would go back to Iraq. Sergeant Charles Hayes>> You have a sense of pride in what you're doing. You're fighting for your country over there. Pam Stroud>> It's always bothered me that kids -- and I say kids because eighteen and nineteen years old, they're kids that go over there and fight. Sergeant Charles Hayes>> I wish I could still be over there fighting next to my other battle buddies. Richard Cabrera>> But I'm sure they're going to have some anger issues, but that will pass within time and with some help. Jim Alvarez>> A lot of them open up to you because I can relate to them. Toni Guinyard>> What's there to understand? Jim Alvarez>> You have to understand that only a veteran can understand what war smells like, the taste of war, the smell of war. There's a lot of sounds. Larry Stroud>> The terminology that we have, that we've shared canteens together in different wars. We hunkered down in bunkers so far that you feel like you want to take your shirt off because you can't get any closer. Jim Alvarez>> There was a famous line in one of the movies of Coppola's. One of the soldiers said, "Oh, I love the smell of napalm." Well, to me, it's terror. It's terror because I got to see people burned. I had to pick up those bodies. Sergeant Charles Hayes>> It doesn't matter what anybody says in the Congress or the Senate, you know. They don't know exactly what we go through over there. Richard Cabrera>> You don't understand that, once you've been in combat, the comradeship that you have. You will feel closer and willing to talk about certain issues to guys who have been in combat than you would your wife. Larry Stroud>> I don't have a problem saying that he and I have cried together. We've actually broken down and consoled each other because we don't want to talk about stuff when we're together, but it just naturally comes out. Richard Cabrera>> My wife doesn't understand how I can be closer to Larry as opposed to her. Larry Stroud>> Never knew him before, but now I would give my life for him tomorrow, absolutely. Any of these guys behind me. Pam Stroud>> When Larry came back, when they came back from Vietnam, they got spit on. You know, that's not right. Richard Cabrera>> I'm glad that these men are getting welcomed the way they are compared to the way we were when we got back from Vietnam. Jason Hayes>> Coming home, being welcomed home, it's a great feeling. It's a good feeling to be welcomed home, having somebody walk up to you and say, "Thank you and welcome home." Richard Cabrera>> I want them to understand that, when these guys come back, you need to support them still. You need to thank them. Let them know you appreciate what they did. Sergeant Charles Hayes>> You know, when I used to say the Pledge of Allegiance in school, it never had too much meaning for me until I joined the military and served my country on a foreign soil. Pam Stroud>> It doesn't matter to me if we believe in the war or not. We need to step up and support them. Larry Stroud>> Don't agree with the president or agree with the president, but support the troops, bottom line. That makes me upset and I can be verbally upsetting if I understand that somebody is badmouthing the war and downplaying the role of the troops. Disrespect the decision to go, but don't disrespect the troops because that makes me fighting mad. Toni Guinyard>> They are fathers and mothers and sons and daughters that want little more than be told thank you and welcome home. I'm Toni Guinyard for Life and Times. Val Zavala>> The VFW in Hemet plans to honor all the local soldiers who have died in war by renaming their post "The Hemet High Veteran Memorial Post". If you'd like to see this and other stories about local families impacted by the war, you can go to the Life and Times blog at kcet.org and click on the Life and Times Blog. Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times". Val Zavala>> There is no more powerful force in California education than the Teacher's Union. Yet some say that the union puts teachers' interests above those of our students, but the union says that the teachers bear the most responsibility for educating our kids. So is the union an obstacle to reform or the key to improving our schools? David Lehrer of CommUnity Advocates moderates our debate between A.J. Duffy, President of United Teachers Los Angeles, and David Abel of New Schools Better Neighborhoods, a critic of the Teacher's Union. The Kitchen Table is made possible by Ralph Tornberg. David Lehrer>> How does UTLA view school reform? How important is it on your agenda of priorities? A.J. Duffy>> It's our number one priority. I mean, in our new contract that we just negotiated, first time ever class size reduction, first time ever caps on balloon classes, a beginning to be a fair and equitable salary which we feel is critically important to retain the good teachers and to entice the bright young minds in college and the second and third career people. We've done some things aside from the contract like the Belmont Center of Choice which is a reform movement to give local control to about ten schools in the Belmont area high schools, bring teachers and parents and administrators to the table to do hiring, to do professional development, craft the curriculum that's necessary for the students that live in the communities that the school services. David Lehrer>> David, Duffy says UTLA is a change agent for school reform. David Abel>> There are many things that Duffy just said that are meritorious and supported in the community. I think teachers need to be paid better. I think they are working for some things that would help education, but they're the only voice in town. Everyone else has dropped by the side. He is the most powerful person. You're talking to the equivalent of the most powerful person in LAUSD by having Duffy here, he and his union. They ought to have a voice, but they ought not to be the only voice. You know, absolute power absolutely corrupts and our conversations about education reform is not extensive enough. They're allowed to be taken down tributaries by talking about one off examples. They're talking about rehashing issues that most of their members agree with, but they never talk about the issues that really would drive some of their members crazy, but would be welcomed by parents, by students, by community leaders. A.J. Duffy>> What issues? David Abel>> It's a very narrow conversation. A.J. Duffy>> What issues? What are you talking about? David Abel>> Well, Duffy, you raised the Belmont Zone and I think that's a great program, but you can't explain to me why that isn't district-wide as a policy. You can't explain to me why the charter schools which you don't agree with mostly for administrative convenience. You just don't want to organize school by school in a seven hundred mile school district. A.J. Duffy>> We're going to get there. David Abel>> But you haven't shown me in your collective bargaining agreement you just signed, a three-year agreement, where the elements of reform, lessons learned from those charter schools, are incorporated in that contract. Because those aren't the issues that drive your members. The issues that drive your members are health benefits and that's why we spend three million dollars in this race in the Valley over an election about health benefits. A.J. Duffy>> That's not true. What drives my numbers -- David Abel>> -- is that not the key issue in the race for you? A.J. Duffy>> No, that is not the key issue, absolutely not. David Abel>> But you just said it was. A.J. Duffy>> The key issue is to continue driving reform. The Belmont Zone of Choice is not the only other game in town. We have an agreement about Parkman Middle School which is an expanded school base management school. I'm not going to go into -- David Abel>> -- there are eight hundred schools in Los Angeles Unified School District. There are eight hundred schools. A.J. Duffy>> This school district has refused to reform. The demonstration project -- David Abel>> -- you're part of the school district. A.J. Duffy>> The demonstration project districts -- David Lehrer>> -- don't you have a majority of the membership, or you did on the school board, and if you're interested, why didn't reform take place? A.J. Duffy>> You know what? Because David's fallacy that we control the school board is in fact a fallacy because, if we did control the school board, we would have a dozen more Parkmans, we would have more Belmont Zones of Choice because UTLA is all about local control of schools, which we believe means quality education and decision-making for parents and teachers and administrators and, if you get local control of a massive amount of schools which we are pushing for, then you have less bureaucracy. David Abel>> The conflict that Duffy has, it's part of his union responsibilities both to be a progressive and to protect his members, is that if a bad teacher exists in the school and well-known, he's obligated to protect that teacher. That's his obligation. A.J. Duffy>> By law, by law. David Abel>> You made the law, but by law. So he has a problem of being a true reformer from the constituents' point of view because he has to do that service. A.J. Duffy>> And yet, according to the Los Angeles Times, over two hundred teachers were fired last year. We brought peer review and assistance into the district and you know what? Every teacher who gets a bad write-up has to go in it. Not administrators, and I know we got a lot of good administrators, but we have a lot of bad administrators that should have -- David Lehrer>> -- you know, it seems the consensus in this town seems to be that -- actually, this country -- public education is in terrible shape, test scores are inching up slowly in Los Angeles, but all too slowly. It becomes a major issue periodically when elections -- A.J. Duffy>> -- if you believe in test scores. David Lehrer>> But wouldn't it be in your membership's interest to really shake things up and to have, you know, semi-contented parents out there who know their kids are moving up instead of this kind of, you know, status quo which you take Belmont and you've got Parkman and there are hundreds of other schools out there that something has to be done? I mean, I know as a parent of four kids who've been through the public school system, it is a challenge to navigate this system and to make sure your kids get a quality education and you just watch it for twenty-five years deteriorate. A.J. Duffy>> I have been in office for a year and a half and, during that time, we have the Belmont Zone of Choice, we have Parkman Middle School, we are trying to get Families of School Projects going which is not just an education innovation, but it's an urban planning education where students get into a mini-district away from the bureaucracy that includes early childhood ed centers, elementary, middle, high schools -- David Abel>> -- all meritorious. Ask him what's in the contract -- A.J. Duffy>> -- so that they can be a part of -- David Lehrer>> -- David, what is happening in the contract? David Abel>> You just negotiated probably the most advantageous contract UTLA has negotiated in twenty-five years. What's in that three-year contract that picks up on these experiments that ought to be praised? You're talking about good things in a district of seven hundred square miles and nine hundred schools. What's in that contract? A.J. Duffy>> Class size reduction, class size caps and the living contract. The first time, we didn't throw -- David Abel>> -- you didn't throw any of those out of the Belmont contract? You didn't take any of those out of the charter schools? A.J. Duffy>> No. For the first time, this district will now be able to sit down with the union on an ongoing basis and negotiate items. David Lehrer>> And you'll be able to raise the issue of wages all the time? A.J. Duffy>> Wages, as re-openers, are aside from the living contract concept. We will be at the table aside from re-openers with issues for counselors, with issues for further class size reduction. I'm going to be working with the district to go upstate and raise money for lower class sizes -- David Abel>> -- with hopefully more than five percent of the voters vote in the May election. That's what we need. A.J. Duffy>> I would like to see that. David Lehrer>> I want to thank you both for coming today. David and Duffy, it's been a very enlightening conversation and we appreciate it. A.J. Duffy>> Thank you, David. David Abel>> Thank you, Duffy. Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address: Life and Times 4401 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, California 90027 You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org. He's been a central figure on the Los Angeles art scene since the late 1950s. He's eighty-one year old painter, Ed Moses, and he has two shows opening at the same time. Not bad in the art world where youth is often lauded over experience. Vicki Curry goes to the studio of Ed Moses where color is bursting from the walls. [Film Clip] Ed Moses>> I don't know what form it's going to take and I don't know until I see it, until I get it. Then I'm immediately bored. So that's what's kept me motivated. People say, "God, you're sort of amazing for such an old bastard." I say, "Because I've never lost that desire to discover and explore." Vicki Curry>> Ed Moses has been making art for more than half a century. Looking at his body of work, it seems he's concerned less with developing a signature style and more with the quest to try something new. Ed Moses>> These bled the edges which got softer edges. When I tried to make them precise earlier, they just weren't cooking. They just didn't look right. People say, "Well, you are always changing." I say, "No, I'm always mutating." I respond to other artists in responsive rebellion to them, showing them how to do it or how I would do it, but leads me into that, into something that I haven't seen. The thing is, can you make a painting that you haven't seen? Well, good luck. Vicki Curry>> Ed Moses' curiosity and drive led to a life-changing decision in the late 1940s that eventually landed him in the middle of the acclaimed Los Angeles art scene. He grew up in Long Beach and served as a surgical technician during World War II. He had planned to go to medical school, but that plan started to fall apart once he enrolled at Long Beach Junior College. Ed Moses>> But I had rotten grades. I probably had ADD, but they didn't have a term for it at that time. I couldn't memorize, I couldn't learn anything. This friend of mine said, "You've got to meet this art teacher. You've never seen anybody like him." Well, I hadn't. I'd just been around straight people all my life, feeling the person that was out of sync with everything, but trying to join in, you know. So I saw this guy and I immediately signed up and I had no talent, no ability and everybody was doing all this kind of stuff with drawing and I didn't know what the hell to do. Finally, I dipped them in and I just started moving them all over and nothing was happening. So I got my fingers and I did this big finger painting all over. So he put my canvas up there and said, "Now here's a real artist." Everybody looked at me and, from that time on, they all followed me around like I was a real artist and I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I still don't. To this day, I don't know what I'm doing. Vicki Curry>> He's the only one who thinks so. He enrolled in a Masters program at UCLA and had his first major exhibition before he even finished his degree. It was 1958 at the influential Ferus Gallery, home to a group of young artists who would go on to international acclaim: John Altoon, Billy Al Bengston, Wallace Berman, Ed Kienholz, Ed Roche, George Herms, Robert Irwin. Ed Moses>> It was a "bad boy" gallery at that time and we all thought we were great and everybody else was stupid. We all were very competitive and we'd show each other work. Vicki Curry>> Ed Moses has never looked back, but unlike many of his peers, he's focused almost completely on painting. Ed Moses>> Yeah, I'm sort of habitual now and I'm aggressive by nature and compulsive, so it's a kind of ritual maybe. Every morning, I paint. I was always sort of obsessive and I liked repetition. I thought, if I repeated it enough, something would break open, but I'm not trying to express myself. I'm trying to discover things. I'm more of an explorer for personal madness through physical paint on a canvas. I really like these. This is the first turnaround I've had. Vicki Curry>> Oh, really? Ed Moses>> Yeah, I've been working on these for about three months, but I like this one. This is going to be a honey when we take it in. Vicki Curry>> Moses says the materials and the process of working with them are as important to him as the final product. Ed Moses>> Because I never know what I'm going to do, what colors I'm going to use. I get out here and I say, "Oh, we'll do this." I did one day in black, as you see. Vicki Curry>> Oh, right. Ed Moses>> In a response. So I'm always rebelling to what I'm doing, thinking I'm going to get too comfortable with this, so I have a lot of things going. So I have to spoil a lot of canvas. I like to be like a writer used to be with a typewriter and he'd tear out and tear out. Then "Oh, yeah" and then that's his lead-in. Well, sometimes they look amazing. I think, if you just put it out there, if you do it enough times, something will happen. Secret sauce will appear. Vicki Curry>> Moses seldom uses a recipe in his search for that secret sauce. His work has alternated between controlled and free-form. Ed Moses>> I have a hard time being out of control, but I like being out of control. Intellectually, I like the adventure. My psyche and my dream world doesn't like it at all. Terror is my constant companion. That's who I hang out with. That's who appears at four a.m. when I wake up with a start. I think this terror is always there for us, but we deny it, we cover it, we control, do all these kinds of things. So I decided to let it run rampant. But that's my obsession. I'm obsessed by this and trying to find something that I can go, "Wow", that's not organized. Sometimes when I do it, I just put it on the wall and walk away and leave it. Don't look at it, then come back and be surprised. That's what painting is all about. Was there some connection between you, the canvas and the paint that's authentic? That's great. I love looking at that one down there. That combination is extravagant. Vicki Curry>> Moses still paints every day, but even after all these years and all those paintings, his work still isn't easily recognizable. But Ed Moses just can't stop experimenting. Ed Moses>> I don't want to be a professional artist. I don't want this to be a job or something. I hate working. So what do you want to do? Well, I just want to flop around like a fool and maybe [broadcast interruption]. Val Zavala>> You can see Ed Moses' work at two galleries in Santa Monica, the Frank Lloyd and the Bobbie Greenfield galleries in Bergamot Station through June 2. I'm Val Zavala. For everyone at Life and Times, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. This program was made possible in part by a grant from the City of Los Angeles Cultural Affairs Department. Sponsored in part by:  | |
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