 |
HOME |  |
SCHEDULE | |
PROGRAMS | |
KIDS & FAMILY | |
LOCAL | |
SUPPORT KCET | |
ABOUT US | |
SHOP KCET |  |
| About Us | Contact Us | |
 |
|
 |
          |
|
|
 |
 |
||
|
|
Life & Times Transcript
8/21/07 Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times -- It saves lives and the law requires it, so why isn't there one in every gym? Dr. Richard Haskell>> Those people collapse and are basically dead unless somebody revives them. Rhea Jones>> There are some clubs we go into and they really just don't want to do it. Val Zavala>> And then, it would cap off his life-long obsession. Will this collector make the Guinness Book of World Records? It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times. Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Val Zavala>> Every year, a quarter of a million Americans die of cardiac arrest and many times it's while they're under stress or exercising. Well, now there's a new law that would put a piece of life-saving equipment in every gym and health club in the state, but are they complying? Roger Cooper has our story. Roger Cooper>> The women who work out at the Tru II Form Gym in Seal Beach have the satisfaction of knowing they're improving their endurance. They also know that, if one of them should fall to the floor with a heart problem, there's a machine at the front desk that could save their life. >> "Begin by removing all clothing from the patient's chest. Cut clothing if needed." Roger Cooper>> As of July 1, a new California law requires health clubs to have an automated heart defibrillator onsite. >> "Remove protective cover and take out white adhesive pads." Roger Cooper>> Why a law to require defibrillators in gyms? Because exercise can sometimes cause the heart to stop, sudden cardiac arrest, and it can happen without warning. Dr. Richard Haskell>> Those people collapse and are basically dead unless somebody revives them. [Film Clip] Roger Cooper>> As simulated in this training video, the heart of a person in cardiac arrest quivers with a chaotic beat. Automated defibrillators are designed to deliver a shock across the heart, restoring a beat and, with it, the pumping of blood to vital organs. The owner of Tru II Form thought having a defibrillator was so important that he didn't wait for the new law to require it. Tom Morgan bought one for his gym a year and a half ago. Tom Morgan>> I just felt that it was the right thing to do as long as it was available as a technology. Technology is my background and I thought it would be criminal not to. Meridith Wiverg>> Well, it's a nice security blanket for all of us. I hope it never has to get used, but it's nice to know that it's available in case we have a problem. Roger Cooper>> But not every health club owner shares Tom's view. Some are balking at the expense and the requirement. Rhea Jones with Heart Chargers supplies defibrillators. She says there has been some slowness to comply. Rhea Jones>> A lot of them were not really aware of the law. There are some clubs we go into and they really just don't want to do it. I try to address immediately the cost involved because it is a minimal cost. I mean, the outcome of saving someone's life versus not having one. But a lot of them, I think, because it's a mandate. No one likes being told what to do. Roger Cooper>> But the Director of Cardiology at Hoag Memorial Hospital Presbyterian in Newport Beach, Dr. Richard Haskell, believes this is something that had to be done. Dr. Richard Haskell>> I think the members would want to have one there. They would petition to make something. It's too bad you have to have a law, but it makes perfect sense. It should have been done a long time ago. Roger Cooper>> The official charged with overseeing the new defibrillator law in Orange County is Dr. Samuel Stratton who directs the county's emergency medical services. Dr. Samuel Stratton>> The way the law is written, we actually don't have authority to enforce the law within the county. So our approach is more to encourage use of the device and encourage the positioning of the device in the health club areas. Roger Cooper>> Dr. Stratton says just twelve of Orange County's two hundred health clubs reported installing defibrillators in the first weeks under the law, but he says that it's too early to get an accurate count yet on compliance. [Film Clip] Roger Cooper>> Many of us became aware of heart defibrillation because of a television show from the 1970s. [Film Clip] Roger Cooper>> In "Emergency", paramedics Desoto and Gage showed the nation how they placed paddles, shouted "clear" and delivered shocks to restart hearts. Today, thirty-five years later, Desoto and Gage would be amazed at how far the technology has come. >> "Do not touch patient. Analyzing rhythm. Shock advised. Charging. Stand clear. Push flashing button to deliver shock. Shock delivered." Roger Cooper>> The latest automatic defibrillators cost as little as twelve hundred dollars and are designed to be operated by almost anyone. Dr. Samuel Stratton>> If you see someone go down, don't feel uncomfortable pulling the box off the wall. All you have to do is open it up and, to steal a line, it's so simple that a caveman can do it. It just basically tells you what to do. Rhea Jones>> They will not shock anyone who is not in a shockable rhythm. The device analyzes the person who's gone down and it will decide if you need to have a shock or not. Dr. Samuel Stratton>> So this is the entire apparatus. You've got the two pads and they're actually labeled where they go, so one here and one here. So if you can follow a cartoon, you know how to do that. Roger Cooper>> The goal is to have an ordinary person restart the heart even before the paramedics get there because chances for survival slip away in just minutes. Tom Morgan>> Even though we have the EMTs from the Seal Beach Fire Department probably maybe three hundred yards away, I still want one of these here because I can start applying it within a minute. Roger Cooper>> Public defibrillators are also being put in places like airports, sports stadiums and shopping malls, and doctors say that you should not be afraid to use them to help someone. Just be sure to call 9-1-1 first. Dr. Richard Haskell>> I have a very good example of a gentleman who was on the golf course and began having chest pain around the sixteenth hole. By the time he got to the eighteenth hole, he was having a full-blown heart attack. He didn't tell any of his partners because he was losing in the match, by the way, and he was afraid he was going to lose money. As he bent over to line up his last putt, he just fell over. Somebody had the wherewithal to run into the clubhouse and get somebody. There happened to be a retired doctor sitting there. He said, "We have a defibrillator." They ran out there and shocked him. It was fortunate because the paramedics actually went to the wrong golf course, so they were almost twenty minutes delayed in getting to him. If there had been a twenty minute delay, he would not have survived. Dr. Samuel Stratton>> In fact, we had an incredible save here in Orange County yesterday with lifeguards who, in fact, rescued a fourteen year old who appeared to be a possible drowning. When they applied the defibrillator, which is our standard procedure, apparently by the time he got to the hospital which was only about a ten minute transport away, he was already talking and complaining that he was thirsty or something like that. I can't recall, but he was coherent and talking. Rhea Jones>> I also know of some places where there haven't been defibrillators where we've had young lives lost, young lives. Roger Cooper>> All of which leads to an important question you might want to ask the next time you're at your health club. Do you have a defibrillator? >> "Charging. Stand clear. Shock delivered." Roger Cooper>> In Orange County, I'm Roger Cooper for Life and Times. Val Zavala>> So what do you think? We'd love to know your response to that story and you can post it on our blog. Just go to kcet.org and click on the Life and Times Blog. Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times". Val Zavala>> Immigration officials arrested an illegal immigrant over the weekend, but not just anyone. This is a woman who had taken refuge at a church in Chicago who was here speaking in Los Angeles when immigration officials arrested her. So do churches have the right to harbor illegal immigrants? Around our kitchen table this week are Joe Hicks of CommUnity Advocates, Lupe Moreno with Latino Americans for Immigration Reform who is against sanctuary, and supporting sanctuary is Rabbi Steven Jacobs with the Progressive Faith Foundation. The Kitchen Table is made possible by Ralph Tornberg. Joe Hicks>> There's been recent headlines that the La Placita church, Our Lady Queen of Angels, is part of a budding national network of sanctuary churches, mosques, synagogues, that are going to be providing refuge of sorts for families, individuals perhaps, that are at least here without the proper documentation to be here. I guess the question here, though, is this simply aiding and abetting lawbreaking or is there something else going on here that other people may miss? Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> The sanctuary movement is an inter-faith movement that comes from the deepest aspects of our tradition. While our government in this country has manmade laws, repeatedly it is a broken system. As Christians and Jews and as Muslims, we, out of our traditions, must forgive and act appropriately towards those who have fallen beneath the security level of what our citizens are about. So undocumented aliens have a very special role and it's very controversial in our country. Look at what Cardinal Mahony did recently when you ask about laws. Laws that are broken are manmade laws and this is a broken system that, hopefully, Congress and the president of this country are going to change, and that we will be helpful in our religious community to redefine what it is to be a citizen in America and act out of our deepest religious traditions. Joe Hicks>> You've heard the Rabbi's take on this. What's your perspective of those, in fact, presenting this kind of sanctuary, if you will, for people that are not here legally under existing laws? Lupe Moreno>> Okay. Well, if I remember correctly, when the last sanctuary movement was in place, it was because Latin America was having all kinds of civil wars and people were coming in illegally as refugees coming out of those wars. I tended to somewhat agree with the churches back then. But at this point, what we have are illegal aliens. They are not legal. They are not undocumented. Undocumented does not exist in our laws. The word is illegal alien. That's what our laws say. Okay, sure, they have children. The children are American citizens, but they are still illegal aliens. The children cannot help them in any way until the children turn twenty-one. Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> It's dangerous to say "they" because it classifies everybody as the same. As religious people, I think we have an obligation to present to the American public what "they" means. Lupe Moreno>> They're illegal aliens. Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> But that's where we differ. Lupe Moreno>> Okay. We are saying that illegal aliens are breaking our laws. Joe Hicks>> But, Rabbi, should not, under our current existing body of immigration laws, should not federal authorities, because they're job is to uphold law, not then move to detain or arrest people and then let the process figure out what to do with people and what's their actual status? I'm sure you would just say to open the borders and let anybody in under any kind of circumstances. Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> No, I wouldn't say that. Lupe Moreno>> But that is what's happening. Anybody is coming in. Anybody without identification. We don't know who these people are and they are breaking our laws. We have very good laws. If our laws were enforced, we would not have these problems. Joe Hicks>> But here, you've got some churches and perhaps others like mosques and synagogues that may eventually join this movement in essence saying, wait a minute, a religious law in this case trumps federal law which says, you know, you've got to have the right stuff to come to this country legally. What do you say about that? What's your position on this? Lupe Moreno>> Well, I say that I am a Christian and I pray all day and I ask for God's guidance. I say that what these people are actually doing with the sanctuary movement is sinning. It is enabling people to sin. It is justifying their sin and -- Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> -- so you're going to punish the sinner. You're going to punish the sinner. Where does the forgiveness come out of the Christian heart? Lupe Moreno>> No, we're not punishing the sinner. I don't think we're punishing the sinner. I think what you are trying to do is twist the words on me here. What I'm trying to say is that you're enabling them to sin, so you are showing them that it's okay to sin. But in the end, I believe that you will be held accountable before God. Joe Hicks>> Rabbi, you know, there's a lot of people out there that are going to be a little skeptical of this. Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> We're not throwing the baby out with the bath water. Repeatedly, those of us across the country are saying that this is a broken system and we recognize this. Nobody has the answer yet. Congress doesn't have the answer, but out of our deep religious values, we are challenging the system, so it is an equitable system. Yes, you have to stop at a stoplight. Yes, you have to stop at the border, but it is a broken system. The border people are not supported by our government, so anybody can get through the border because there are less and less border agents. That's a whole other issue when you say throw them across, throw them back, they're getting through the border, instead of stopping them at the border. We have not enhanced the system that we have in place that's broken. How much the more so do we need a system and the religious people in this country, an interfaith religious people in this country -- Lupe Moreno>> -- so why do we have to follow the law and these people not have to follow the law? What is fair about that? What is it that it's okay for all of these people to break this law and that law and that law? And why is it okay for you to help them lie? Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> First of all, I'm not helping them lie. I'm helping them -- Lupe Moreno>> -- their whole existence is a lie, so you help them lie. Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> Would you like me to respond to that? Lupe Moreno>> Yes, please. Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> Okay. I am helping them in ways that gives them dignity and to classify millions of immigrants and say they're leading a lie is absolutely wrong. First of all, millions -- Lupe Moreno>> -- they are leading a lie. Joe Hicks>> Let him respond. Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> Millions of people are here legally. Millions of people want to become American citizens. They want to have a system in which they can add to the greatness of America and not throw them across the border where their lives are lost. Their children who are born here are legal citizens of this country. Lupe Moreno>> They are children. Joe Hicks>> What would you say to people saying, "Why should we grant dignity to people who've in fact come to this country illegally?" At the same time, we've got people standing in line waiting years literally to come here legally. Rabbi Steven Jacobs>> That's right, and that's the system that's broken and that's what we want to rectify. We're not just going and saying we're enhancing what you call illegal immigration and I call the undocumented part of this country. We want to fix that system so that you and millions of Americans no longer have to respond to what happens to those who are standing in line that want to become American citizens. We want to fix that system. Lupe Moreno>> But let me ask you one question. Joe Hicks>> Lupe, as a churchgoing Christian, are there no laws that you think trump our everyday laws? Lupe Moreno>> Okay. My understanding is that our Constitution and our laws are based on the Bible and other religious papers. The only thing that we should do for these people is treat them humanely, treat them with respect, but show them the door. Joe Hicks>> Lupe, we could do this all day, I think. Lupe Moreno>> Absolutely. Joe Hicks>> But we've got to bring it to a close. Thank you very much, both of you, for coming and having this discussion today. Appreciate it. Lupe Moreno>> You're welcome. Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address: Life and Times 4401 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, California 90027 You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org. Val Zavala>> There are the casual collectors, people who dabble in stamps or butterflies, and then there are those obsessed collectors, people who are going for a world's record. Well, we met one man who's in that second category and what does he collect? Something you and I just throw away. Inside this typical home on a quiet street in Palos Verdes is an atypical room and an atypical collector. Danny Ginsberg>> I'll just take them and line them up so I can just count them really quickly and see how many I have. Val Zavala>> Danny Ginsberg wants someday to see his face and his bottle caps in the Guinness Book of World Records. Danny Ginsberg>> Yeah, people give me bottle caps all the time. These, I would estimate, are from the early 1960s because they look like the type like when I was four years old. They had Upper 10 caps like that and Diet Rite caps like that. Val Zavala>> Did he say when he was four? Well, believe it or not, Danny says his urge to collect started when he was in diapers. Danny Ginsberg>> I used to collect the lids off of baby food jars. I guess I've always been fascinated with like lids and things. When I was a kid, the baby food lids used to have things like stamped codes on them that tended to match whatever flavor it was, you know, like creamed corn or whatever it was. When I was a little kid and I was learning how to read, I guess, before even learning how to read and I could see the numbers, I used to know what number was like what flavor. People would like take those lids and they would say, "Okay, what's SX5037" or something like that. "Oh, that's green beans" or something like that. Val Zavala>> But he quickly graduated from baby food lids and moved up to adult fare, bottle caps. He remembers the exact moment his obsession was launched. It happened during a family camping trip and Danny wasn't interested in hiking. Danny Ginsberg>> I remember that my mom was always saying, "Well, you know, you need to get yourself a hobby or something." We were sitting down, you know, resting somewhere and there was a Pepsi bottle cap on the ground and she said, "There's something you can collect, a bottle cap." (laughter) Val Zavala>> Moms, be careful what you tell your kids. From there, he was off and running. So after a lifetime of collecting, how many bottle caps does he have? A half million? No. A million? No. Two million? Not even close. Six million? Danny Ginsberg>> Six million. Val Zavala>> Oh, my God. Danny Ginsberg>> These all have bottle caps in them. Val Zavala>> Every one of them? Danny Ginsberg>> There's about a thousand boxes filled with bottle caps. Val Zavala>> Let's see one of them here. Danny Ginsberg>> Okay. Let me grab that right here. This box has ten thousand one hundred fifty-eight caps in it. Val Zavala>> You know that for sure? Danny Ginsberg>> Yeah. I wrote it on the side of the box (laughter). Val Zavala>> Now if you're thinking this guy is missing a lug nut, you're not the only one. Does anyone think you're nuts? Danny Ginsberg>> Oh, yeah. A lot of people do. These have never been on bottles before either. Val Zavala>> But then, they see this. This is Danny's warehouse. His business is called Real Soda in Real Bottles. He's turned his love of bottle caps into a lucrative enterprise, distributing niche brands of soda, the kind that still comes in old-fashioned glass bottles with old-fashioned bottle caps. Danny Ginsberg>> When I was like maybe ten years old, people said, "Oh, that's like a kid's collection. You're going to get too old for that." When I was in high school, people were saying, "Oh, other people are out playing basketball and going out and doing this and that and you're around collecting bottle caps." I'm amazed. I mean, I deliver to like thirty movie stars' homes and so on. Now people are like, "Oh, wow, you do that?" So the older I get, the more impressed people are that I collect bottle caps, which is kind of unusual. Val Zavala>> Today his collection spans across cultures and religions. So you really love the ones that are obscure and strange? Danny Ginsberg>> Well, I'm into geography and all that and languages and things. I remember there's one I have that is a Fresca bottle cap from New York City. It has a saccharin warning on it and it also has the Hebrew letters, Kosher for Passover. So it's like this is hazardous, but it's kosher for Passover (laughter). Val Zavala>> But the real fun comes when he takes a trip with his family. Danny can say bottle cap in about fifty languages. Danny Ginsberg>> German is -- well, flaschendeckel is bottle cap. Val Zavala>> How about Korean? Danny Ginsberg>> Korean? Again, accent. You know, it's probably wrong. But if I go to a Korean restaurant, they'd know to give me the bottle cap (laughter). Val Zavala>> And family vacations become quests. Once after spending several weeks in India, Danny had gathered twenty-five thousand bottle caps. But when he went to the airport, he encountered some Indian Custom guards with guns. Danny Ginsberg>> They said, "What is this?" I said, "It's bottle caps." They said, "What are you doing with those bottle caps?" I said, "Well, I have a collection and I have four or five million of them and I collect from all over the world and I've been running around collecting these all throughout India." They said, "Oh, we are very sorry, but you cannot bring those on the plane. Those are metal. We don't know what's inside there." They opened up the bag and one of the guys put the barrel of the gun and was like going through the caps like that. He goes, "No, no. I am very sorry about that, sir. You will have to take those away. You cannot take those on the airplane." Basically, I said, "Well, you know, I really think it would be important to have your country, your cities and stuff represented in my bottle cap collection because someday I plan to hopefully be in the Guinness Book of World Records." One of the other guys goes, "Guinness Book of World Records? I'm watching that on television. I'm very excited to see you on there someday. Have a good trip." They let me go just because of that (laughter). Val Zavala>> So how close is he to breaking the record? Well, a couple of brothers in Denmark are his main competition. Danny Ginsberg>> Well, they had, the last time I checked, about a hundred twenty-five thousand different ones. Val Zavala>> That leaves Danny with a good fifty-five thousand distinct caps to go, but then again, it depends on how you define distinct. Danny Ginsberg>> Actually, those seventy thousand different ones are only different on the face of the cap. If there's something written on the side, I don't delineate that and I probably should because now the people in the Guinness Book of Records and stuff like that collect one of each kind only and they do separate them that way. So I don't know how many I really have that way. Val Zavala>> Oh, it sounds like coins, like treasure (laughter). Danny Ginsberg>> I know. You know, on eBay, they might even be worth more than coins (laughter). Well, not when you have this many. Just because they saw this many, they're not worth as much. Val Zavala>> Well, maybe not in dollars, but you can't put a price on a hobby like this. Even if he doesn't end up in the record book, he hopes his caps will end up where others can appreciate them. So what do you think will happen to this like after you're dead and gone? What will happen to them? Danny Ginsberg>> Well, maybe somebody else who's into collecting bottle caps will get them or it will go to a museum or something. Val Zavala>> A museum? Is there a bottle cap museum in the world? Danny Ginsberg>> Not that I know of, but this would be a good start (laughter). Val Zavala>> It sure would, it sure would. Well, best of luck to you. I'll tell you, it's quite a feat. Thank you very much. Danny Ginsberg>> Thank you. Val Zavala>> If you've got an unusual bottle cap, I'm sure Danny will be glad to take it off your hands. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Sponsored in part by:  | |
|
Home | Features | Arts | Health/Science | OC Edition | L&T Blog | Archives | About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use |