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Life & Times Transcript
9/5/07 Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times -- The rich may be different than you and me, but what about the poor? Richard Alarcon>> The majority of the people who are living in poverty are there because of a single event. Donna Rodriguez>> Wages haven't kept pace. We're just getting squeezed out. Val Zavala>> And then, it's noisy, hot and dirty, but that's where one man found his inspiration. It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times. Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Val Zavala>> Being poor isn't what it used to be. According to federal standards, about eleven percent of Californians live in poverty, but critics say that it's much worse. In reality, about a third of Californians can't make ends meet and they say it's high time we update the federal definition of poverty. As Toni Guinyard tells us, people who are poor these days don't fit the typical picture. Toni Guinyard>> There are many faces of poverty. Some are instantly recognizable and others are not. Linda Wang>> This is my checking transactions. Toni Guinyard>> Linda Wang and her husband, John Sorensen, are professionals. He has a background in education. Her background is in health care. But these days, the projects eating up most of their time involve finding a way to dig out of debt and keep their home. They are victims of predatory lenders. How do you characterize yourself financially at this point? John Sorensen>> Well, we're below the poverty level. We're below the poverty level, you know, if you were to use any kind of a measuring stick. Toni Guinyard>> The federal poverty guideline is the measuring stick used to determine who's living in poverty and who isn't. Nancy Berlin>> Families are working harder and making less. Toni Guinyard>> Nancy Berlin is Director of California Partnership, a statewide coalition of groups fighting poverty. Nancy Berlin>> The poverty line was developed in the mid-1960s and it's based on food surveys that were done in the 1950s. It's basically a multiple of three of a food basket for a family in the 1950s. Toni Guinyard>> She's a critic of the way poverty is calculated, and so is Los Angeles City Council member, Richard Alarcon. They're urging the use of what's called the self-sufficiency standard to determine poverty. Richard Alarcon>> In Los Angeles realistically, it takes fifty-four thousand dollars a year for a family of four to be self-sustaining. So I would like to see the federal government change its formula for considering what poverty is to enable us as a society to have a better understanding of what poverty is and what our challenges are in facing them. Toni Guinyard>> Under the federal poverty guideline, if you're a family of four living on twenty-thousand six hundred fifty dollars or less a year, well, you're actually living in poverty. But supporters of the self-sufficiency index say that calculating that number is part of the problem. They say that it fails to take into consideration the cost of housing. Nancy Berlin>> The self-sufficiency standard, on the other hand, looks at all the major expenses that families have, housing, food, transportation, health care, and it looks at it by region. It takes into account that it's more expensive, for instance, to live in Los Angeles than it is in Lake County, California. Richard Alarcon>> We should adjust our formula to factor in the economies at place in specific regions. Toni Guinyard>> But Alarcon knows that's easier said than done. He's made fighting poverty part of his political mission, first as a State Senator and now as a City Council member. He's introduced a resolution creating an ad hoc committee to end poverty in Los Angeles. Richard Alarcon>> Many people say, "Well, how are you going to end poverty in California or Los Angeles or anywhere else for that matter?" Toni Guinyard>> Not swayed by his critics, Alarcon's resolution challenges candidates in the 2008 presidential race. Richard Alarcon>> Well, I challenge the presidential candidates to take it on as a national issue and to commit to change that formula. Nancy Berlin>> If poverty is mentioned in the national debates, I'll cheer. I think it will be a real launching point for a true debate on how to bring families out of poverty and we definitely would welcome that. Toni Guinyard>> Berlin had reason to cheer a bit. During the All-American Presidential Forums on PBS moderated by Tavis Smiley, Democratic candidates were asked -- >> "To what do you attribute this inequity which keeps many black families locked in the grip of poverty?" Toni Guinyard>> While the candidates answers focused more on education than poverty, it represented a start. Richard Alarcon>> California is a donor state to the federal government. For every dollar that we pay in taxes, we only get back seventy-eight cents. I believe that, by adjusting the federal poverty guidelines, we will be eligible for more funding from the federal government. Toni Guinyard>> Donna Rodriguez is less optimistic about the prospects of poverty getting national attention. Donna Rodriguez>> You know, if people in the country started talking about it, that would be lovely. But I'm in one of the most expensive cities in the country and, as they say in Hollywood, how is it going to play in Peoria? Toni Guinyard>> Rodriguez is a single mom raising a seven year old daughter. She has a good job -- Donna Rodriguez>> I've been there for fourteen years. I'm a bookkeeper and account manager for a business management firm. Our clients are directors and actors and producers. Toni Guinyard>> Yet has to share the bed in her one-bedroom rent-controlled apartment with her daughter. Donna Rodriguez>> We need affordable housing and I don't just mean low-income housing. I don't consider myself to be a low-income person, but yet I'm still in this situation. We need medium-income housing and that needs to be protected by the City Council members, by the mayor, by the governor if need be. Toni Guinyard>> Donna is not living below the poverty line, but she represents so many others struggling to make ends meet. Donna Rodriguez>> Wages haven't kept pace. We're just getting squeezed out and I don't really see the City Council stepping in to do anything about it right yet. Richard Alarcon>> The majority of people who are living in poverty are there because of a single event. Toni Guinyard>> Which brings us back to Linda Wang. It was one event leading to a series of events that unraveled her financial stability. Linda's father gave her the family home. Her parents were ill. She met her husband while searching for a second job, then quit working to care for her parents. Linda Wang>> When my father got ill, he couldn't pay the house. Toni Guinyard>> The health care bills began to stack up. Faced with mounting expenses, Linda set out to refinance the house. John Sorensen>> She told them that she needed their help. Would you help me get some money out of the house so that I can pay these bills off for my parents and have a little bit of extra cash? Linda Wang>> And I had the credit card stress, taking my father's stress, my parents' stress, and I had to pay the loan stress. In the meantime, I had to find out a way to get out of the debts I have. John Sorensen>> The interest rate that she had on the old loan on the house was 8.95 percent and now she's got a new interest rate on the first loan being 12.5 percent and, on the second loan, 22.5 percent. Linda Wang>> Payment on the house of twelve hundred dollars jumped to twenty-four hundred dollars. Toni Guinyard>> The couple is determined to persevere and keep their home. John Sorensen>> You can look at me and hear my story, but am I telling the truth? I mean, yeah, I can scream just as loud as the next guy out there that's screaming because of the economic position that they're in. Toni Guinyard>> A position that an increasing number of people who were once deemed middle-class now find themselves in. Nancy Berlin>> Families tell me that they make choices between things like whether to buy another couple of gallons of milk for the kids or pay the light bill because they can't do both. Every month becomes this juggling act. What can I spend my money on this month? What has to wait until next month? What can't we afford at all? Richard Alarcon>> The solution here is not to create mounds of poverty programs. The solution is just to create good-paying jobs so the people can take care of their families and everybody will prosper. Toni Guinyard>> And critics of the poverty guidelines say that changing the way we define poverty is the first step. I'm Toni Guinyard for Life and Times. Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times". Val Zavala>> The latest numbers are no surprise, yet more Americans are uninsured or under-insured. It's the continuation of a trend in which fewer employers are offering health care or they're offering less. So is it time for the government to step in? Well, in fact, in Sacramento there's a bill that proposes making the government the single payer for health care, but is that the best way to go? For a provocative Kitchen Table debate, we brought together Keith Richman, a former Republican Assemblyman now with Lakeside Health Care. He believes the government as a single payer is the wrong way to go. Dr. Irma Strantz is with Health Care For All. She believes a single payer system is the solution. David Lehrer of CommUnity Advocates kicks off our debate. David Lehrer>> Irma, Keith, we're here talking about health care once again. The polls show there's a consensus in California and I expect the nation that the system is broken, that "Sicko" was the movie that did fairly well for a documentary and generated a lot of talk. Polls show just complete disgust with what's going on. What's the answer? Keith Richman>> Well, David, I think most of us agree that the system is broken, but I don't really want to go to a government-run system. A single payer system would be a system that is run by the government and look how well the government has done on solving our problems with traffic or transportation. Or look at our schools, or look at how well the government handles health care in the prisons. That's for a hundred seventy thousand people, and I just don't trust the government to handle our health care system. David Lehrer>> Irma, do you? Irma Strantz>> Yes, I do. Yes, I do (laughter). You're talking about the government as a deliverer as in the prison system. I'm talking about it as the insurer with the same system of providers in place, the doctors, the hospitals, whatever, so the government is not doing that. Keith Richman>> I am a doctor and I'm part of the health care group. Irma Strantz>> I'm a public health doctor. Keith Richman>> I'm not talking about the government being the direct provider. I'm talking about the government running the system and I just don't trust it. I don't trust the government to run the system. Irma Strantz>> Well, there are a lot of happy Medicare people in this country that have been there for years and are very secure with the Medicare coverage even though there are things that are not covered and we have to wait until you're sixty-five to be eligible. But they believe in it and they believe this is the government running this. David Lehrer>> But how is Medicare going to deal with the baby boomers? I mean, there are financial problems or fiscal problems that are clearly imminent for Medicare. Irma Strantz>> We keep paying into it through Social Security and Medicare. As our population grows, there's more money going into it. It will cover it. But the single payer system, you've got everybody in one pool, so everybody's sharing the cost. Everybody that's currently uninsured or under-insured would be part of the recipient of it. David Lehrer>> And you put your life into the government. Irma Strantz>> Exactly. The doctor puts -- Keith Richman>> -- David, let me just tell you that the chief accountant for the United States government, the comptroller, a guy by the name of David Walker, has said that Medicare is essentially bankrupt. It's going to bankrupt the country and take more and more of the country's budget. And if you look here just in the state of California, if we enacted a single payer system, that on day one would cost twice as much as the entire state budget does now. So think about it. We've just had an almost two month budget delay. The legislature was unable to resolve the issues and I just don't want to have a system where the government is going to be running our health care system. David Lehrer>> Irma? Irma Strantz>> The single payer system that we're talking about has all kinds of savings in it because the private system right now uses twenty to thirty percent for administrative costs, marketing, billing, advertising. But the single payer system does bulk buying of prescriptions and other kinds of things that we all need, so they're saving money that way. Everybody pays into one fund, one universal fund. Nobody's exempt from paying into it if they want to receive services through that plan. Keith Richman>> David, let me just say that I agree that we have to reduce administrative costs. In fact, there's a lot of things in the governor's proposal to reduce administrative costs, to require insurance companies to spend money on medical care rather than administrative costs. There's other proposals to reduce administrative costs. So I think we agree on that. We also agree that there ought to be pools, as an example, where small businesses and individuals -- David Lehrer>> -- so where you differ really is that the administrator of the plan shouldn't be the state, but should continue to be private insurance companies? Keith Richman>> I want the flexibility of a private health care system. I don't want the government setting the taxes, determining the reimbursement rates, determining the benefits that people are going to get because I don't trust the government to run that system. Irma Strantz>> Well, the way that Senate Bill 840 is set up is that every different provider group has a say in terms of what services are provided, what the billing is, whatever. It's a self-managed thing, and we have one person, one commissioner, in charge which we could use in this country. David Lehrer>> So if I'm sick, let's say, God forbid, I have a cancer and I need some cutting edge chemotherapy, do I have to then go to the government and say, "Will you pay for that cutting edge chemotherapy?" And if not, then I have to go pay for it out of pocket? Keith Richman>> The government would exactly say what they're going to pay for or not pay for just like they do in other countries that have single payer systems. David Lehrer>> Is there the potential in California, then, under the Kuehl plan that you would not be able to be able to get extra care that -- Keith Richman>> -- it would outlaw private health insurance. Irma Strantz>> No, no, no. Under the Kuehl plan, private insurers could offer coverage for things that are not part of your basic. If you wanted a private room, for example, or you wanted cosmetic surgery or you wanted something or other, you know, that was not part of your basic plan, then you could get private insurance. Keith Richman>> But not for things like you're talking about if you want additional chemotherapy or renal dialysis or things like that. What Irma's talking about is cosmetic surgery or long-term care or things like that. David Lehrer>> So you're saying that it wouldn't be permitted? Keith Richman>> That's correct. It would not. Irma Strantz>> But we have the same kind of controls right now with the HMOs and private insurance companies. There are certain things that they will not pay for until you're practically at death's door. Keith Richman>> The laws are that they have to pay for what's medically indicated. Irma Strantz>> But they have every way of saying that it will not be approved. I feel sorry for the physician who's in between trying to negotiate chemotherapy treatment or a particular diagnostic x-ray. I really do. Keith Richman>> Irma, what's going to happen with a government-run system? It isn't going to be between the physician and the patient. It's going to be the government saying what chemotherapy is available. That's what happens in Canada. That's what happens in Britain. I don't trust the government to make those decisions. Irma Strantz>> I was going to say that, in terms of a lot of these research drugs, if it's new chemotherapy, we still have to go through the hoops if we've got Medicare or private insurance or whatever. Keith Richman>> Well, I'm not talking about research drugs. I'm talking about limitations on drugs that are used all the time. David Lehrer>> Well, if this SB 840 or the governor's plan are both on the table, what's the likelihood of either of them being adopted in the foreseeable future? Keith Richman>> Well, I'm disappointed to say, David, that I don't think anything is going to happen this year in the legislature. I think SB 840, the governor has already said that, if it passes the legislature, he isn't going to sign it, so that isn't -- David Lehrer>> -- and it has passed before. Keith Richman>> It has passed. It was placed on his desk last year and the governor's been very clear that he's not going to sign it. I don't think the governor's plan has a lot of chances either to get through the legislature. David Lehrer>> Is there any chance of a compromise, of a melding of the two systems? Keith Richman>> You know, knowing how poorly the legislature does and how unsuccessful they've been, I don't hold out a lot of hope that anything is going to happen this year. Irma Strantz>> Why do you think that the governor can't find a legislator to carry his proposal? He doesn't have a bill. He goes up and down the state talking about his proposal which is modeled after the Massachusetts plan which is supposed to be universal health care and still has twenty percent of the people in Massachusetts who cannot afford the health plan even though it's mandatory and they are forgiven. They will be uninsured going to receive treatment in Massachusetts and the governor's plan doesn't take care of that for us here in California either. David Lehrer>> Well, if we can't reach a compromise across this table, how do we expect them to do it in Sacramento? Thank you, Irma, and thank you, Keith, for coming to our Kitchen Table. Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address: Life and Times 4401 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, California 90027 You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org. Val Zavala>> If you saw where Dave Rivas works, you would never imagine that he's an artist. His photographs hang in trendy galleries and museums in Ventura County, but his day job? Just take a look at this piece from independent filmmakers, Josh Harman and Ryan Kohler. David Rivas>> Well, for the last twenty-three years, I've been working at Arcturus Manufacturing, a forging plant in Oxnard. Most of that time, as the boiler operator. The forging process is heating up pieces of metal until they're kind of a plastic, maybe like seventeen hundred degrees, and then pounding them with a large hammer into a particular shape. [Film Clip] David Rivas>> Hammers are all steam-driven and my job is to make the steam to drive the hammer. So I'm the plant boiler operator. My desk ranges usually eighty to a hundred degrees where I'm sitting all day long. As the boiler operator, there is a lot of time when I'm doing nothing in relation to the boiler. During this down time while the boiler is running perfect and I just have to be there, I have been able to pursue my interests as an artist. [Film Clip] David Rivas>> I came into the art of photography by taking some photography classes at Ventura College maybe eight or nine years ago. During class one day, see, I wasn't sure what I was doing, you know. Somebody that had Bill Hendricks's class was talking and Bill had mentioned to them about some of the important things in an image is mystery, ambiguity and contradiction. So every image, you try and capture that. It's like, boom, a big light when off in my head. Okay, that's what I want to capture. That's what I want to see. When I compose an image, that's a mystery, ambiguity and contradiction. Sometimes you do things and you don't know why you're doing it. It's like an unconscious thing. I'm going to go to college the rest of my life as long as I am able to because I like to have the association with other students and the exchange of ideas that a person in college has. [Film Clip] David Rivas>> The first image that I shot that started me into the abstract photography was a sump pit in the corner of the boiler room. I was standing above this pit one day and I looked down and I saw the reflection of a fluorescent light. I believe water was dripping into the pit at the same time, so it made ripples and it was just a very interesting image. Besides shooting the images in the boiler room, I looked for other things to photograph, so I moved outdoors and started photographing the lines in fragments of graffiti that I found very interesting. The graffiti that you guys were talking about is right where this road runs into Highway One, so eventually we'll get there. We're going to make a right at this light. Here's a pretty shot, but I choose to shoot that (laughter). People think that my photographs are paintings a lot. When I tell them they're photographs, then they think maybe they're digital prints, which they're not paintings and they're not digital. They're real straight photographs. When I see somebody looking at my work, I am just always awed that somebody has found something interesting and I take it as one of the highest compliments. I don't regret getting into photography and getting into the art world late in life because, as a young man, I chose to go down the path to have a family and raise, in my case, five kids. That was my real passion during most of my life, but when my children were finally gone and I was free to pursue my new passion, it was artwork and I've connected to that and I will do this the rest of my life. [Film Clip] Val Zavala>> David Rivas' work is on display at the Carnegie Art Museum in Oxnard from September 9 through November 18. It's also on display at Foxfire Jewelers in Ventura. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Sponsored in part by:  | |
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