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Life & Times Transcript
9/24/07 Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times -- Does a little piece of California history stand a chance against a major expansion at Universal Studios? Deuk Perrin>> It really has hit home as to just how large and how much mass there is in this development. That's our biggest concern. We're not against development, but it has to fit into the community. Val Zavala>> And then, it would cap off his lifelong obsession. Will this collector make the Guinness Book of World Records? It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times. Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Val Zavala>> We all know Universal Studios, that entertainment complex on the hill near Burbank. Well, now Universal has major expansion plans, but part of the plans would literally overshadow an important part of California history and some critics are saying, "Is this any way to treat our past?" Hena Cuevas takes a closer look at what happens when the future threatens to dwarf the past. Hena Cuevas>> It's one of southern California's most popular attractions: Universal Studios in North Hollywood, part theme park, part restaurants and shops, part working studio. It sits on four hundred acres just north of downtown, but operations have grown so much that NBC Universal is looking to expand. They have a three billion dollar project called Universal City Vision Plan, a complex of condos, stores, offices and studio space. This huge expansion hasn't triggered much opposition since it lies within Universal's boundaries, but not so for a smaller project just across the street. Richard Bogy>> It really has the potential for being a massive project on a very small space. Hena Cuevas>> Richard Bogy is with the Universal MTA Project Working Group made up of various neighborhood organizations. The groups got together after they heard about Universal's plans for expansion. Is the group anti-development? Richard Bogy>> No, not at all. I mean, we're for smart growth. In fact, our motto on our stationery is "Neighbors Working Together for Smart Growth". Hena Cuevas>> This controversial phase calls for yet more office space and studio facilities, and where would it be built? Here on a smaller parcel just across the street from Universal's main entrance. When MTA bought the land from Universal, they agreed to allow the studio to have a say when it was developed. Richard Bogy>> Well, the MTA portion is raising a lot of concerns in the neighborhood because it is, first of all, a very small parcel, about six, seven or eight acres. But it's equally as large in total square footage, or could be equally as large, as the entire project at Universal. Hena Cuevas>> The plans include three hundred thousand square feet for studio production and more than a million square feet of office space. There would also be parking and retail shops. Bogy says that's just too much for such a small lot. Richard Bogy>> It's adding a million and a half square feet of space potentially in two and a half years and they've yet to show any sort of traffic mitigation. So here we are in one of the most choked traffic areas of the city and we're going to add a massive development potentially and there's really no plan for how do you deal with the traffic? Hena Cuevas>> The concerns about the project go beyond questions of how big is it going to be and what kind of an impact will it have on the traffic in the area. It's also about the future of what sits behind these gates. It's one of California's oldest and most important sites, but it's a place very few people have seen or even heard of. It's Campo de Cahuenga, considered the unofficial birthplace of California. In 1847, the Treaty of Cahuenga was signed here. It was the pact that marked the beginning of the end of hostilities between Mexico and the United States. The original adobe building is gone, but this replica which houses a museum was built in 1950. Deuk Perrin is the President of the Campo Memorial Association. The group is responsible for the preservation of the two-acre site and that's why they're keeping a close eye on the Universal Studio expansion project. Deuk Perrin>> We all know that there's going to be something here, but reasonable and workable. That's the whole concept. Not trying to interject the most intense development possible. Hena Cuevas>> To get a better idea, Perrin and his wife built this crude model based on renderings they've seen. Deuk Perrin>> What we wanted to show was the size of the Campo right here, the courtyard, the first twenty-four story building with the underground parking, the media studios. These are super-graphics that we found that are going to be on the building kind of glowing and going off and on all night long. Then you have the existing NBC Universal building and a new one that's either going to be office space or a hotel or condominiums. Hena Cuevas>> Well, just based on this, this is really going to encroach on your small little area. Deuk Perrin>> Very much so. In fact, more recently we found that they may be encroaching right here into the parking lot. Hena Cuevas>> Perrin is a retired Los Angeles city planner. He says that such tall buildings would block, among the other things, the amount of light they get. How much did it help you visualize what's going to happen once you had this model built? Deuk Perrin>> It helped me. I used to do a lot of this in my career, so I have a very good concept of how these things look. But to other people, it really has hit home as to just how large and how much mass there is in this development. That's our biggest concern. We're not against development, but it has to fit into the community. Hena Cuevas>> Already the Cahuenga Pass on the 101 Freeway is one of the busiest routes. It's the key connector from the Valley into downtown. Richard Bogy>> You have streets that are already at total maximum capacity, so now you talk about adding -- in this one segment right here, they talk about adding four thousand additional parking spaces. How do you handle that capacity in cars when you already have a gridlock situation at many hours of the day? Hena Cuevas>> The developer for this phase is Ayahlushim Hammond of Thomas Properties. Ayahlushim Hammond>> We've heard from some people who perceive that it's too big. At this point, we are not sure. What we have proposed is what we think is a project that is exciting and that is smart and that works for the neighborhood. Hena Cuevas>> She says the project aims to take advantage of the subway station on the property, that people could leave their cars behind and commute via public transportation. Ayahlushim Hammond>> What we've heard from people is traffic as well, which is a problem, frankly, for all of us all over the city of Los Angeles. But for the most part, it has been trying to understand what the needs are of the larger market and making sure that we're responding to those needs as well as satisfying the community needs, which is very important. Richard Bogy>> They kind of rest on the hope and the determination that people will use public transportation. The problem is, that's not happening. So until we can do something to get those people onto public transportation, we have to assume that cars will be on the street. Hena Cuevas>> But what about the impact on the Campo? Ayahlushim Hammond>> Well, there's concern about the proximity of those buildings. We've also understood from people that there's concern about shade and shadow. Again, that is also part of what is being studied at this point. We are flexible in terms of understanding what the impacts are to Campo and our goal is always to enhance it, first and foremost. Hena Cuevas>> And that's why Hammond says the Campo will figure prominently in the development. She says this is the perfect opportunity for this forgotten site to attract more visitors. Ayahlushim Hammond>> We're hoping to be able to work with the Campo de Cahuenga board, which we have started doing, in order to be able to provide greater accessibility, enable people of Los Angeles to know more about it, to be able to enhance their existing programs, to provide lighting and security, and make this great open plaza space of which we have some renderings. Hena Cuevas>> The Environmental Impact Report for the MTA project will be ready in late October. In the meantime, Perrin hopes the final plans will not be so massive as to dwarf this historic oasis. Deuk Perrin>> Just feel how quiet it is. You have Lankershim Boulevard bustling and you have the Metro Station, people walking to and fro. You kind of lose all that and you're back in time. Hena Cuevas>> I'm Hena Cuevas for Life and Times. Val Zavala>> So what do you think of Universal's expansion plans? You can post your opinion. Just go to our blog at kcet.org/lifeandtimes/blog. Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times". Val Zavala>> It's arguably the most powerful gang in the state of California, but it's not on the streets of Los Angeles. It's in our prisons. It's the Mexican Mafia and, despite being behind bars, it's responsible for hundreds of gang killings every year. Authorities liken the Mexican Mafia to a corporation. Now a new book looks at how the Mexican Mafia has even corrupted gang prevention programs and some local politicians. Saul Gonzalez talked with author Tony Rafael, a Los Angeles writer who spent ten years researching gangs. Saul Gonzalez>> Let's start with the fundamentals. What is the Mexican Mafia, or La Eme, as it's often known. Tony Rafael>> The Mexican Mafia is primarily a prison-based gang whose locus of power is the California prison system, the CDC. They were founded in 1957 and, since that time, they have managed to do what no other prison gangs do, is extend their power and reach beyond prison walls to exercise control and influence over virtually every Hispanic street gang in southern California. Saul Gonzalez>> They're a California supergang? Tony Rafael>> They are a supergang. They are a gang of gangs who have managed to vertically integrate themselves with every Hispanic street gang in southern California either as an ally or as an antagonist. Every street gang member in southern California eventually will have to deal on some level with the Mexican Mafia. Saul Gonzalez>> What sets the Mexican Mafia apart from other powerful gangs, be it the Black Guerrilla Family or the Aryan Brotherhood? What is it that kicks up this supergang to another order entirely? Tony Rafael>> It is the fact that they've got tens of thousands of street soldiers at their disposal more than willing to do whatever it is that they want them to do. Their reach is much, much broader, much larger than BG, the Black Guerrilla Family, or the Aryan Brotherhood. They can control things on the street from the securing housing unit in Pelican Bay by merely issuing orders. Making a phone call, writing a letter, they can get things done on the outside that no other prison gang can do. Saul Gonzalez>> Now we're having this conversation in El Sereno, a neighborhood in East Los Angeles. A powerful force in this neighborhood? If you live in this neighborhood, do you feel the touch of the Mexican Mafia? Tony Rafael>> Well, walking around, you're not going to, but you see the graffiti on the walls. In El Sereno and other neighborhoods, you'll see the thirteen suffix attached to a gang name. Usually when you see thirteen, that's an indication of a Sureno or Mexican Mafia affiliated gang. The thirteen is the thirteenth letter of the alphabet which is M, which stands for MA, which stands for Mexican Mafia. Saul Gonzalez>> And thirteen is almost sacred to the Mexican Mafia? Tony Rafael>> Absolutely. Saul Gonzalez>> Explain how they were able to jump the walls from just being a prison gang to something with a lot of power and clout and influence beyond the walls of California's prisons. Tony Rafael>> It was a conscious effort on their part. It was a policy initiative which was thought about, worked out in advance in detail, and finally launched roughly in the September timeframe in 1992. When a number of paroled Mexican Mafia members hit the streets, they issued orders to all the gangs in southern California that, from now on, you're all Surenos, you're all south-siders, and you have to do what we tell you. Saul Gonzalez>> They actually had kind of a super summit, no? In Elysian Park? Tony Rafael>> Yeah, they did. At Elysian Park, they had a meeting with over a thousand gang members, but that was not the only place. They had meetings in the Coliseum parking lot, in El Salvador Park in Orange County and places in San Diego. All over southern California, they had these giant meetings where it was essentially, "This is what you're going to do." Overwhelmingly, most of the gangs joined up, saluted the flag and said, "Yeah, we're happy to do this." There was some resistance, as there always has been, to the Mexican Mafia. But for the most part, most of the gangs joined up willingly. Saul Gonzalez>> And when they go to prison, you quote one, I think, a prison administrator or a correctional officer, who says that's the head office, right? California prisons? Tony Rafael>> Yeah. The California prison system is the head office. That's where the locus of power is. That's where all the top shot-callers are, in the prison system and in the Los Angeles County jail. Saul Gonzalez>> Is it too much of an exaggeration to say that it's the Mexican Mafia that, in reality, controls our correctional institutions here? Tony Rafael>> It's not my contention. It is the contention of the correctional officers, that they are the ones who control the prisons. The COs are there to feed, house, clothe and medicate them. The actual running of the prison or what goes on inside the prisons is really controlled by the inmates and predominantly the Mexican Mafia. Saul Gonzalez>> One story that you recount in your book which I think is very striking is what happened to a Hollywood actor, Edward James Olmos, when he made a loosely-based film about the Mexican Mafia and one of its leaders that the Mexican Mafia did not like. What happened to him? Tony Rafael>> He was sanctioned. He was targeted for assassination because he took liberties with the truth. Saul Gonzalez>> Edward James Olmos? Tony Rafael>> Edward James Olmos did. The name of the movie was "American Me". For the most part, it was quite accurate, but there were some scenes that he added that did not reflect reality. As a result, they took great exception to what was shown on the screen and they killed three people that were connected to the film -- Saul Gonzalez>> -- advisers to the film. Tony Rafael>> Technical advisers, and he was targeted for execution, for assassination. Supposedly, according to what law enforcement told me, he paid his way out of that green light. Saul Gonzalez>> I've read that you often carry a sidearm, a gun. I can't help but notice the guys standing over there next to us and two of them are your personal security. I imagine that's because you're afraid of possible repercussions, right? Blowback from the Mexican Mafia? Was it worth writing the book? Tony Rafael>> Yes, absolutely it was worth it. I think this is a subject that needs to be addressed. It needs to be addressed for the thirteen, the fourteen, the sixteen year old kids out there who are growing up in these neighborhoods who are seduced, brainwashed and mind controlled into looking at the criminal life as something glamorous and something to aspire to. For no other reason than to keep those kids hopefully from that life, I think it was worth it. Saul Gonzalez>> Having finished this project, having written your book, what advice do you offer to law enforcement agencies, be they local or federal, when it comes to fighting gangs like the Mexican Mafia? Tony Rafael>> Fighting organized criminal groups like the Mexican Mafia requires a sustained effort. It can't be a fire brigade type of approach where you isolate a problem, you devote a whole bunch of resources to it, solve the situation and then move on to something else. It requires constant attention over the course of many, many years, and it requires the resources and the political will to do it. Saul Gonzalez>> Well, let me ask you something. The Mexican Mafia was formed in, what, 1957. It's been around for fifty years. Fifty years from now, is there still going to be a Mexican Mafia in Los Angeles? Tony Rafael>> Probably. There probably will be. Hopefully, it won't be as strong or will be weaker. With changing demographics, who knows? But criminal organizations like that are really, really hard to eradicate. The Cosa Nostra is still with us after a hundred years. Saul Gonzalez>> What is the larger societal interest in policing this gang and cracking down on this gang? If you're not a member, if you have nothing to do with them, if you don't live in certain neighborhoods where they operate, what's in it for the rest of the city to make sure that this gang is controlled and maybe even eliminated one day? Tony Rafael>> The average individual really should have no fear of the Mexican Mafia or gangs in general. They're not going to come breaking down your door in the middle of the night to take your stereo. The societal costs, however, are staggering. What is the life of a sixteen year old kid cut down for crossing them? What is that worth when you multiply that by tens of thousands all over southern California? I don't think you can put a price on that. It's inestimable. I think that's the real tragedy and it's the real cost that you pay. Saul Gonzalez>> Writer Tony Rafael, author of "The Mexican Mafia", thanks for joining us on Life and Times. Tony Rafael>> Thank you very much for being here. Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address: Life and Times 4401 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, California 90027 You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org. Val Zavala>> There are the casual collectors, people who dabble in stamps or butterflies, and then there are those obsessed collectors, people who are going for a world's record. Well, we met one man who's in that second category and what does he collect? Something you and I just throw away. Inside this typical home on a quiet street in Palos Verdes is an atypical room and an atypical collector. Danny Ginsberg>> I'll just take them and line them up so I can just count them really quickly and see how many I have. Val Zavala>> Danny Ginsberg wants someday to see his face and his bottle caps in the Guinness Book of World Records. Danny Ginsberg>> Yeah, people give me bottle caps all the time. These are old. These are from, I would estimate, from the early 1960s because they look like the type like when I was four years old. They had Upper 10 caps like that and Diet Rite caps like that. Val Zavala>> Did he say when he was four? Well, believe it or not, Danny says his urge to collect started when he was in diapers. Danny Ginsberg>> I used to collect the lids off of baby food jars. I guess I've always been fascinated with like lids and things. When I was a kid, the baby food lids used to have things like stamped codes on them that tended to match whatever flavor it was, you know, like creamed corn or whatever it was. When I was a little kid and I was learning how to read, I guess, before even learning how to read and I could see the numbers, I used to know what number was like what flavor. People would like take those lids and they would say, "Okay, what's SX5037" or something like that. "Oh, that's green beans" or something like that. Val Zavala>> But he quickly graduated from baby food lids and moved up to adult fare, bottle caps. He remembers the exact moment his obsession was launched. It happened during a family camping trip and Danny wasn't interested in hiking. Danny Ginsberg>> I remember that my mom was always saying, "Well, you know, you need to get yourself a hobby or something." We were sitting down, you know, resting somewhere and there was a Pepsi bottle cap on the ground and she said, "There's something you can collect, a bottle cap." (laughter) Val Zavala>> Moms, be careful what you tell your kids. From there, he was off and running. So after a lifetime of collecting, how many bottle caps does he have? A half million? No. A million? No. Two million? Not even close. Six million? Danny Ginsberg>> Six million. Val Zavala>> Oh, my God. Danny Ginsberg>> These all have bottle caps in them. Val Zavala>> Every one of them? Danny Ginsberg>> There's about a thousand boxes filled with bottle caps. Val Zavala>> Let's see one of them here. Danny Ginsberg>> Okay. Let me grab that right here. This box has ten thousand one hundred fifty-eight caps in it. Val Zavala>> You know that for sure? Danny Ginsberg>> Yeah. I wrote it on the side of the box (laughter). Val Zavala>> Now if you're thinking this guy is missing a lug nut, you're not the only one. Does anyone think you're nuts? Danny Ginsberg>> Oh, yeah. A lot of people do. These have never been on bottles before either. Val Zavala>> But then, they see this. This is Danny's warehouse. His business is called Real Soda in Real Bottles. He's turned his love of bottle caps into a lucrative enterprise, distributing niche brands of soda, the kind that still comes in old-fashioned glass bottles with old-fashioned bottle caps. Danny Ginsberg>> When I was like maybe ten years old, people said, "Oh, that's like a kid's collection. You're going to get too old for that." When I was in high school, people were saying, "Oh, other people are out playing basketball and going out and doing this and that and you're around collecting bottle caps." I'm amazed. I mean, I deliver to like thirty movie stars' homes and so on. Now people are like, "Oh, wow, you do that?" So the older I get, the more impressed people are that I collect bottle caps, which is kind of unusual. Val Zavala>> Today his collection spans across cultures and religions. So you really love the ones that are obscure and strange? Danny Ginsberg>> Well, I'm into geography and all that and languages and things. I remember there's one I have that is a Fresca bottle cap from New York City. It has a saccharin warning on it and it also has the Hebrew letters, Kosher for Passover. So it's like this is hazardous, but it's kosher for Passover (laughter). Val Zavala>> But the real fun comes when he takes a trip with his family. Danny can say bottle cap in about fifty languages. Danny Ginsberg>> German is -- well, flaschendeckel is bottle cap. Val Zavala>> How about Korean? Danny Ginsberg>> Korean? Again, accent. You know, it's probably wrong. But if I go to a Korean restaurant, they'd know to give me the bottle cap (laughter). Val Zavala>> And family vacations become quests. Once after spending several weeks in India, Danny had gathered twenty-five thousand bottle caps. But when he went to the airport, he encountered some Indian Custom guards with guns. Danny Ginsberg>> They said, "What is this?" I said, "It's bottle caps." They said, "What are you doing with those bottle caps?" I said, "Well, I have a collection and I have four or five million of them and I collect from all over the world and I've been running around collecting these all throughout India." They said, "Oh, we are very sorry, but you cannot bring those on the plane. Those are metal. We don't know what's inside there." They opened up the bag and one of the guys put the barrel of the gun in there and was like going through the caps like that. He goes, "No, no. I am very sorry about that, sir. You will have to take those away. You cannot take those on the airplane." Basically, I said, "Well, you know, I really think it would be important to have your country, your cities and stuff represented in my bottle cap collection because someday I plan to hopefully be in the Guinness Book of World Records." One of the other guys goes, "Guinness Book of World Records? I'm watching that on television. I'm very excited to see you on there someday. Have a good trip." They let me go just because of that (laughter). Val Zavala>> So how close is he to breaking the record? Well, a couple of brothers in Denmark are his main competition. Danny Ginsberg>> Well, they had, the last time I checked, about a hundred twenty-five thousand different ones. Val Zavala>> That leaves Danny with a good fifty-five thousand distinct caps to go, but then again, it depends on how you define distinct. Danny Ginsberg>> Actually, those seventy thousand different ones are only different on the face of the cap. If there's something written on the side, I don't delineate that and I probably should because now the people in the Guinness Book of Records and stuff like that collect one of each kind only and they do separate them that way. So I don't know how many I really have that way. Val Zavala>> Oh, it sounds like coins, like treasure (laughter). Danny Ginsberg>> I know. You know, on eBay, they might even be worth more than coins (laughter). Well, not when you have this many. Just because they saw this many, they're not worth as much. Val Zavala>> Well, maybe not in dollars, but you can't put a price on a hobby like this. Even if he doesn't end up in the record book, he hopes his caps will end up where others can appreciate them. So what do you think will happen to this like after you're dead and gone? What will happen to them? Danny Ginsberg>> Well, maybe somebody else who's into collecting bottle caps will get them or it will go to a museum or something. Val Zavala>> A museum? Is there a bottle cap museum in the world? Danny Ginsberg>> Not that I know of, but this would be a good start (laughter). Val Zavala>> It sure would, it sure would. Well, best of luck to you. I'll tell you, it's quite a feat. Thank you very much. Danny Ginsberg>> Thank you. Val Zavala>> If you've got an unusual bottle cap, I'm sure Danny will be glad to take it off your hands. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Sponsored in part by:  | |
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