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Life & Times Transcript
10/24/07 Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times -- Day four of the southern California firestorms. As hope rises on one front, danger flares on another. Sergeant Joe Deliaga>> We don't want to allow residents in here where we may have to force them back out. We were fortunate Monday. We got everybody out without loss of lives. Val Zavala>> And then, is there a better way to fight fires? Some frustrated homeowners are trying to put twenty-first century technology on the fire line. It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times. Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Val Zavala>> This fire season will be a record breaker, whether it be the number of people forced to flee their homes or the amount of damage, already over a billion dollars in San Diego County alone. But firefighters are hoping that on this, the fourth day, the worst is over. Here's the very latest. Firefighters today were encouraged by better weather, a decrease in those ferocious Santa Ana winds. Still, the damage is staggering. Four hundred thirty-seven thousand acres of land have been scorched, an area equal to three-quarters of all Orange County. More than fifteen hundred homes destroyed. Almost four hundred thousand people have been evacuated, the largest evacuation in California state history. The president extended his disaster declaration and plans to visit the state tomorrow. We begin our reporting with KCET's Jeffrey Kaye. Pilot>> "Right there, that's a pretty graphic representation of what these firefighters are facing." Jeffrey Kaye>> Wind-whipped and exhausted, firefighters watched and waited for the Santa Ana winds to die down today, a lull that could bring a respite from the blazes that have engulfed southern California. Pilot>> "The fires are coming right close to the homes. Here you can see it kind of burning through some of that fuel right there." Jeffrey Kaye>> At least eighteen active fires continue to burn from Los Angeles to the Mexican border on this, the fourth day of treacherous fires. Statewide, some ten thousand firefighters are battling the flames from the ground and the air. By this afternoon, the fires had scorched some four hundred twenty-six thousand acres. The blazes have been responsible for six deaths. At least forty-five people have been injured, half that number firefighters. Marvin Ramirez>> We've been up for about forty-eight hours starting with our shift that we started and then down here and getting put on the line. Jeffrey Kaye>> In San Diego County, by far the hardest hit area, at least twelve hundred homes have been destroyed. Officials expect that number to rise. Damage estimates here now top a billion dollars. The fires are still spreading and thick blankets of acrid black smoke hang heavy. This morning, Interstate Five, the major artery between Los Angeles and San Diego, was shut down, the result of a fire on the sprawling Camp Pendleton Marine Base that got out of control and burned some three thousand acres. Ken Matsumoto>> We have a fire that started in Camp Pendleton's area that progressed westward because of the winds and it caught the center divider on fire and we're just trying to control it right now and wait for additional resources to get here to extinguish the bulk of the fire. Jeffrey Kaye>> Hundreds of thousands of residents have fled their homes, the largest mass movement of people in California history. Vivian Heide>> We've lived in our house since 1973 and I can't imagine that it's not going to be there. But the longer it goes, the more you think, you know, we'll pitch a tent. Jeffrey Kaye>> Thousands of people have moved into evacuation centers, but many are being allowed to return home. County officials have issued a plea to residents to conserve resources. While much of San Diego is dealing with the still unfolding crisis, some communities in this county are gradually tallying the damage and taking the first infant steps towards recovery. One of the hardest hit places is Rancho Bernardo, a bedroom community with a population of about seventy-five thousand. Officials say that about five hundred homes were completely destroyed here. Another sixty-five have suffered damage. As is often the case when wind-whipped fires sweep through suburbs, there seems to be no pattern to the destruction. Wrecked homes are side by side with houses that don't have singe marks on them. The owners of most of these destroyed homes haven't laid eyes on them. That's because Rancho Bernardo, like communities throughout San Diego, is under a mandatory evacuation order. As of this morning, it was enforced by National Guard personnel as well as by local police. Sergeant Joe Deliaga>> We don't want to allow residents in here where we may have to force them back out. We were fortunate Monday. We got everybody out without the loss of lives, but we don't want to take a chance of allowing people in and forcing them back out. Jeffrey Kaye>> At a roadblock, anxious residents and business owners waited for the all-clear. Mike Roberts was here with his wife and two daughters. Mike Roberts>> It just kind of hop-scotched through the neighborhood. Mine is standing, my neighbor's is standing, but the one across the street is gone, so there's no logic to it whatsoever. Jeffrey Kaye>> Among the first allowed back in to Rancho Bernardo were crews who cleared brush and debris. Inspectors from utility companies surveyed the damage. Ted Knowd>> It's pretty wiped out. Obviously, you've got those down here. The fire moved through here really quickly and several homes burned down. But we're just trying to get an assessment of how much to the electrical system we have and what it's going to take to get it restored. Jeffrey Kaye>> At the local recreation center, federal, state and local officials gathered to plan the opening of an emergency center that will provide assistance to residents when they return. Helen Phillips is the director of the recreation center. What is going on here? Helen Phillips>> We are now changed from a recreation center into a command center and we will be serving FEMA and Red Cross. We will be setting up here to serve all of the folks who have lost their homes. Jeffrey Kaye>> One island of relative normalcy in this disaster area is Casa de las Campanas, an upscale retirement community. Jill Sorensen>> We're continuing to provide three meals a day. It's not our normal menu, of course, but we have been able to get medical supplies and food delivered and we are providing three meals a day and taking care of everybody's needs at this point. Jeffrey Kaye>> While the retirement home evacuated people in need of skilled care and those with dementia, other residents have stayed here despite the fact that power is off in their apartments. To the north of this area, firefighters struggle to contain a blaze in Lake Arrowhead east of Los Angeles. It has destroyed hundreds of homes in this mountain resort. But elsewhere in southern California, there has been progress. The blazes in Los Angeles County are contained. But successes aside, there have been some criticisms of the firefighting response. Some local officials have said the state was unprepared. Ruben Grijalva, the state's top firefighter, rejects those critiques. Ruben Grijalva>> "The governor directed me and gave me every asset, every resource, that we needed to combat fires. The key here is, when you have sixty mile an hour winds and gusts to eighty to eighty-five mile an hour winds, no amount of resources are going to help that. You know, we risk the lives of our firefighters. I don't care how many of them you have. When you have those kinds of conditions, the key to reducing the threat of wildfire in California is land use planning, prevention and getting ahead of the curve." Jeffrey Kaye>> President Bush has now signed a "Major Disaster Declaration" for California which will provide more federal aid including long-term recovery funding. The president plans to head to southern California tomorrow to assess the damage firsthand. Val Zavala>> That report from KCET's Jeffrey Kaye. Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times". Val Zavala>> There are still numerous fires, big and small, burning out of control in southern California and many say that that's evidence that we don't have enough air bombers to meet the demand. So what can the average citizen do? Well, Hena Cuevas met one resident of Topanga Canyon that's determined to bring more air power and other technology to the front lines of firefighting. Hena Cuevas>> Tony Morris is the founder of the Wildfire Research Network. He's lived in Topanga Canyon for more than fifteen years and he remembers just how devastating the fire of 1993 was. Tony Morris>> It moved fast. It was incredible. I think in twelve hours -- it could be longer than that -- but it went all the way from where it started all the way to the ocean in Malibu. Hena Cuevas>> The response to that fire frustrated him, so Morris brought neighbors together and formed a nonprofit group to explore ways to improve the fighting of wildfires. It's called the Wildfire Research Network. Narrator>> "Managing wildfires requires innovative technology and new strategies. There is a need to develop more effective firefighting tools to deal with this growing threat." Hena Cuevas>> The group is exploring the use of new technology such as night vision goggles. These would help firefighters battling fires at night when temperatures are cooler. Another technology is airborne mapping devices. These allow firefighters to map the wildfires and better predict which direction they will go. But because of the California terrain, Morris is pushing for more support from above. Having studied wildfires, which is what your organization does, what are some of the biggest challenges that are presented particularly in this area? Tony Morris>> This is a very difficult place and Los Angeles County Fire would admit it. How to defend it? We have a very narrow road. It's only one way in, one way out. If the fire trucks are coming up and we're wanting to go out, what do you do? We also have a canopy of trees throughout this area and we have hundreds of neighbors living here. In essence, it's very hard to fight it on the ground without aerial support. Hena Cuevas>> He says that California could use more water bombers such as this one from the Canadian company, Martin Mars. The plane used in California in 2000 can scoop seven thousand gallons of either fresh or saltwater in twenty-five seconds. Tony Morris>> It drops almost two-thirds of a mile in one drop. We have nothing like that in the country. The Cal Fire air tankers are much smaller capacity, about twelve hundred gallons. Every time they drop, another plane has to come behind and pick up where the other one dropped off, whereas this plane is so big and has such a large capacity that it drops an enormous amount of fire retardant. Hena Cuevas>> The aircraft has been contracted by the state and will begin flying over San Diego, but what about getting more planes like this one? Tony Morris>> We spent about twelve months talking to homeowners groups, asking people around Los Angeles County to email, call or write the governor about setting aside some money for a Tanker 910 which is a converted DC-10 that drops twelve thousand gallons. It is currently on contract with the state of California for three years, but what precipitated the decision was the Griffith Park fire and then the Catalina fire. The governor was very correct in what he did. He said, "Let's get that plane on contract." Hena Cuevas>> Why do you think the state of California hasn't gone that direction? Tony Morris>> Well, first there was no such plane, okay? We have a fleet of aircraft that the state has which are very well managed and we have the largest firefighting fleet of any state in the union. But there never was a DC-10 to use. It's been developed over the last five years by private enterprise. Hena Cuevas>> He points out that it's been the private sector that's made the biggest advances. For example, Evergreen Aviation of Oregon owns a Boeing 747 called the Super Tanker. Last year, they brought it to San Bernardino for a demonstration to show fire officials what it could do. [Film Clip] Hena Cuevas>> It's still pending additional testing, but if everything goes as planned, it would go into service in 2008. Not soon enough for Morris. What has been the biggest obstacle in trying to get these as quickly as possible? Tony Morris>> First of all, reluctance on the part of the government to realize that we can find the money. I must say, that's something that, you know, the aviation division of Cal Fire has always struggled with. Do they have enough money? We don't think they have enough money. They do amazingly with what they have, but this airplane costs a lot of money. I do believe it was not part of their normal annual contract. It's taken from another source. But still in all, it pays for itself. Hena Cuevas>> Getting one of these airplanes is very expensive. How willing do you think taxpayers are going to be to fork over that money? Tony Morris>> I think, if they put it in perspective, saving one five million dollar house or two five million dollars houses, I mean, it more than pays for itself over the term of its contract. Hena Cuevas>> Morris says that his goal is to start a dialog. He knows that now is the time to get the ball rolling when it's fresh on the minds of the people and he has the attention of government officials. I'm Hena Cuevas for Life and Times. Val Zavala>> Hundreds of homes have been lost in the wildfires and, over the next few weeks and months, people will have to make a decision. Should they rebuild or not? Maybe they can learn a lot from past victims of wildfires who've had to make this same decision. Philip Bruce has our story. Philip Bruce>> Now this was just one home, I guess, right? Dennis Hansberger>> It was. Philip Bruce>> Dennis Hansberger has heard some people say that nothing could have stood in the way of the fire, but he wonders if that's true. And this devastated neighborhood in the hills north of San Bernardino only makes him more curious. Why did some things burn while others didn't and are there some lessons here in the ashes on how to avoid another disaster in the future? Dennis Hansberger>> I believe that most of these homes were not hardened against fire because they were built long enough ago that they just simply didn't have the kind of standards that would have made it possible for them to survive the fire. Philip Bruce>> Hansberger roamed these woods as a youngster. Today he's a County Supervisor representing San Bernardino's mountain communities and, in the aftermath of the crisis, Hansberger is asking questions. Were the fires made worse because the county was too lax? Did hodgepodge planning and building codes allow this neighborhood and countless others to be packed with homes that were easy targets? In short, did the county allow growth to happen in areas where homes should have never been built? Hansberger knows some of his constituents may not like the questions, but he says the answers are crucial. Dennis Hansberger>> During the fire itself, obviously our focus was on putting the fire out and save lives, save property. Number one objective, save lives. Number two, save property. And certainly try to manage the fire in a way that gives us the healthiest possible forest. But now the discussion changes. It changes to should we rebuild and, if so, how should we rebuild? A legitimate issue. There is a school of thought that says, no, you shouldn't rebuild and the question is, well, then, if that's the case, who's responsibility is it? Should the property owners simply forfeit their property? Should the government buy up their properties and make them public properties? How should that be done? Philip Bruce>> A little further up the hill, a prime example of the fickleness of the fire that raced through Waterman Canyon. A home is gutted, but a newer outbuilding built according to modern codes is still standing. Dennis Hansberger>> This is absolutely gone. Every bit of it. Philip Bruce>> Well, why do you think this made it and this didn't? Dennis Hansberger>> I think because the eaves are closed. It's a newer structure and it didn't have any access to get inside to burn it. Now why it didn't have any access, I don't know. It looks like somebody pulled a board off of there to maybe stop some fire that tried to get in there. Philip Bruce>> But the fact remains that probably an older home next door is gutted and this thing largely survived. Dennis Hansberger>> My guess is that the home was older than that structure and you can see there's some fire on that corner, but it didn't actually get inside the structure. Those enclosed eaves apparently kept that fire from actually getting up underneath that and actually igniting it. It was working on the back side here, but it didn't get it. Philip Bruce>> It scorched it pretty good. Dennis Hansberger>> It did. Philip Bruce>> Do you think people in San Bernardino County, after this fire, will look at this as being an example of what you're talking about and support these kinds of changes in building code? Dennis Hansberger>> Yeah, I do. I believe that they will. I really do think that people are very sensitive to the idea. If you give them good evidence of why they ought to do it, I think they will do it. Philip Bruce>> Is this that evidence? Dennis Hansberger>> Well, I think this and others, yeah, right. Philip Bruce>> Down the street, more examples of how the fire had plenty of easy fuel to leap from one piece of property to another. Dennis Hansberger>> The things you look at when you drive through those neighborhoods is that you find wood fences everywhere. Very few block walls. Modern communities today tend to have concrete block walls and those are very protective and they don't catch on fire where, in many of these instances, it appears that the fence may have been the first thing to catch on fire. You have an old dry cedar fence and it catches on fire very easily. It ignites the trees and gets into the home. Philip Bruce>> And then there are the trees, dense stands of timber that surrounded most of the homes here. The county has no jurisdiction over the adjacent national forest, but it has full authority to regulate private property such as this. Hansberger wonders if it's time to require homeowners to thin out their trees for everyone's sake, but he knows that whenever politicians start talking about cutting trees, some people get nervous. Dennis Hansberger>> Certainly it draws people out who say, "Wait a minute, you're just trying to cut down our forest." Well, first of all, there's a certain lack of logic in even making the statement. There's only one reason that people are in those mountain communities. They love them. They're there because they love the forest. No one who's removing timber from their property is doing it to make money. They're doing it for a variety of safety issues and forest health issues. But nobody goes to live in the mountains in order to have no trees. That just isn't true. Philip Bruce>> One thing is for certain. In the aftermath of this disaster, the way has been cleared to deal with tough questions that may have been too hot to handle before. How likely do you think that scenario is that you will see small or even not so small areas in this region of San Bernardino County not ever being built back? Dennis Hansberger>> Very unlikely. I think that people who live in these areas are, for the most part, they love the area and they are risk-takers and they understand the risk. They don't want to lose the gamble, if you will, but they do understand there's a risk associated with it. They tend to be people who accept that there's a risk in living here and that this forest will come back and they want to be here. Philip Bruce>> I'm Philip Bruce for Life and Times. Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address: Life and Times 4401 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, California 90027 You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org. Val Zavala>> With all these fires burning, people are realizing just how serious brush clearance is. Yet, getting your brush cleared can be rather amusing especially if you hire a modern-day goatherd. Hena Cuevas has our story. Sarah Bunten>> "Okay, boys, you ready?" Hena Cuevas>> When Hugh and Sarah Bunten visit the Getty Museum, they come with their goats. Hugh Bunten>> We came in an eighteen-wheeler. If they're going to be more than an hour in transit, we go that way so that everybody gets a window seat and there's no pushing and shoving. Hena Cuevas>> They all have names: Red, Dwayne, Anakin. Sarah Bunten>> And there's Mr. L.A. He's a real ham. He likes his picture taken. Hena Cuevas>> This is the fourth year they've traveled all the way from Oregon to tackle the steep hills surrounding the Getty. They're part of the museum's preparations for fire season. The campus is a hundred ten acres and, according to ground supervisor, Yas Osako, it's a lot easier for the goats to clear away the brush. Yas Osako>> We have a brush crew that goes in and does that work, but on these really steep areas, we thought that it would be a lot safer if we didn't have to have our guys go in there and do it, and use the goats to get those real steep areas. Hena Cuevas>> They're steady eaters, packing away between four to five pounds of vegetation a day. Hugh Bunten>> They've got a beer drinker's liver, so a lot of things that other animals can't eat, they can eat. Hena Cuevas>> And they can be a handful. Sarah Bunten>> It's just a lot of patience because they are like very small kids and you want to tell them yes most of the time. You don't want to always tell them no. Hena Cuevas>> Hugh keeps them in line with some help from his herding dog, Steve. Hugh Bunten>> So when they go for forage, I know where the best stuff is, so I take them. They follow me. They trust me. Then when we have any kind of security issue, they come to me. Hena Cuevas>> But every once in a while -- [Film Clip] Hugh Bunten>> (Laughter) He can't see around the boxes. Jack, come on. This way. Come on. Hena Cuevas>> To protect the goats, Hugh and Sarah stay with them twenty-four hours a day. They even sleep outside in a tent. Sarah Bunten>> Some nights, we have good nights and we'll sleep and other nights we get up and the coyotes have been all over and the dogs are barking and we have to come out with our light and make sure they're not in with the goats. So, yeah, some days you don't get as much sleep. Hena Cuevas>> The Buntens travel with their goats eating their way through California before fire season begins. The dangerous months are June through September. But Bunten says that clearing the brush this way won't prevent a fire. However, it will slow it down considerably. Hugh Bunten>> This is a fuel break, not a fire break. We change the composition of the fuel to allow firefighters to stop a fire. Hena Cuevas>> According to Bunten, interest in his goats is growing in Los Angeles County. In fact, Griffith Park which just lost over eight hundred acres in May in a large brush fire wants to bring the goats in so they can start working on the brush before fire season begins. Sarah Bunten>> The goats are beginning to be looked at as a tool. Before, it was hard to get your foot in the door because the fire guys, you know, weren't sure if they could do it. But Los Angeles County has been so progressive in that way to get their foot in the door and to say, yes, goats are part of the tool. Hena Cuevas>> What do you enjoy the most about doing this? Hugh Bunten>> These guys (laughter). I like them a lot. They never lie to you. They're pretty straight up guys. They respond real well. I think it's a respect kind of thing. Hena Cuevas>> They're at the Getty for three weeks. Then they're off to another gig. But Osako says they most likely will be back. Yas Osako>> We've had them for four years now, so the fifth year might be right around the corner here. Hena Cuevas>> So maybe next time Mr. L.A. and the rest of the gang might be able to catch an exhibit or two. I'm Hena Cuevas for Life and Times. Val Zavala>> And parents should know that tomorrow "A Place of Our Own" and "Los Ninos En Su Casa" will have information on how to help children cope with trauma. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. Thanks for watching. We'll see you tomorrow. Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Sponsored in part by:  | |
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