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Life & Times Transcript
11/26/07 Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times -- Going overseas. It's a way to get cutting edge medical care at affordable prices, but what are the risks? Toi Arnold>> I was a little apprehensive because, you know, it's a country that I've never been to before. You know, the facilities? How are the doctors over there? How is the care? Dr. David Aizuss>> The issue of the quality of the care that they're receiving and the follow-up care that they receive is a major issue that needs to be resolved. Val Zavala>> And then, they called it El Camino Real. You know it as Ventura Boulevard and it runs through one of southern California's oldest settlements. It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times. Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Val Zavala>> Most of us have heard the stories of Americans going overseas for a cosmetic surgery, but now more people are going abroad for more serious medical treatment. Many of them are uninsured who have found out that it costs a fraction of what it costs here. But how do they know they're in good hands? Well, those are questions that Toi Arnold from Culver City had to ask before she flew to Thailand. Hena Cuevas has our story. Hena Cuevas>> In her forty-four years, Toi Arnold had never traveled outside the United States. So when this Culver City designer was told she should fly to Thailand for a cutting edge medical procedure, she was uneasy. Toi Arnold>> I was a little apprehensive because, you know, it's a country that I've never been to before. You know, the facilities? How are the doctors over there? How is the care and on and on and on. Hena Cuevas>> But last March, despite her fears, Toi flew ten thousand miles to a country she'd never been to. What made her take such a big step? Fibroids. Fibroids are benign tumors that form in the uterus. They're very common. Four out of ten women suffer from them. Toi Arnold>> The fibroids that I had were about the size of a five or six month fetus. Hena Cuevas>> Toi's condition was so severe that she was in pain and bleeding heavily. Toi Arnold>> I wasn't able to work because I never knew when it was going to come on. I never knew how long it was going to last. I was passing clots like the size of my fists, you know, soiling clothes. Hena Cuevas>> Toi was told that the only cure was a hysterectomy, the complete removal of her uterus, but she and her boyfriend weren't sure. Toi Arnold>> We had the option of doing a hysterectomy which was not an option for us. I don't have children and I plan on having a child and he was just dead set against it, so we started researching other options. Hena Cuevas>> So she launched her research which took her to fibroids.com. The website advertised curing fibroids without surgery. Dr. Bruce McLucas>> "There's a fibroid right there." Hena Cuevas>> Dr. Bruce McLucas is an OB-GYN at UCLA. He's developed a new procedure called fibroid embolization. He enters the groin through a catheter. He then blocks the blood supply to the fibroids. As they get less blood, the fibroids get smaller. Dr. Bruce McLucas>> We put in like little grains of sand until we block the blood vessels and, over a course of six months, the fibroids shrink fifty percent. They never come back. Toi Arnold>> I didn't have to be concerned about losing my uterus, my ovaries, anything that would prevent me from having a child. I was like this sounds great. This is it. Hena Cuevas>> But under Toi's insurance, it was a hysterectomy or nothing. To get this new procedure, she would have to pay out of her own pocket. Not giving up, Toi went to see Dr. McLucas. Toi Arnold>> I shared with him what was going on with me and, I don't know, he felt what I was going through and he said, "Toi, I have a suggestion. I don't know if you're game for it, but I'm going to give you a suggestion. You can talk it over and find out if this is what you'd like to do." Hena Cuevas>> His recommendation? Travel to Thailand to have the procedure done there. It would all be handled through a joint venture called MEDS Global Healthcare. The organization was started by Dr. Rome Jutabha who works with Dr. McLucas. In 1999, Jutabha started the company as an option for patients who were looking for less expensive care overseas. Dr. Rome Jutabha>> I saw that there are lot of patients here in the United States who couldn't afford the health care. Many of them had to declare bankruptcy and then be treated in the county system and there was a definite need for patients who just could not get adequate care here. Hena Cuevas>> MEDS Global Healthcare is part of a growing trend commonly referred to as medical tourism. On the internet, hundreds of companies arrange travel for various medical procedures. The most popular is cosmetic surgery, but there are also more extensive ones such as knee and hip replacements. In 2005, more than a hundred fifty thousand Americans traveled overseas for medical care. For Toi, the biggest appeal was cost. The entire trip would be six thousand dollars cash. That's less than half of what it would be in the United States. Toi Arnold>> The airfare, the hotel accommodations, all was inclusive. So I was like this is the way to go. Hena Cuevas>> So last March, she went to Thailand. MEDS followed her throughout the entire process. This is their video. In Thailand, she met with Doctors Jutabha and McLucas, as well as the team of Thai surgeons who would be performing the operation. McLucas would be supervising. Dr. Bruce McLucas>> "We'll make a small incision in your groin about as big as what they use to draw blood today." Toi Arnold>> "Okay." Dr. Bruce McLucas>> "If I ask you to tell me what happened, you wouldn't know (laughter)." We're dealing with patients who otherwise wouldn't get care, people who maybe can afford the few thousand dollars it's going to cost them to get over to Bangkok to get this procedure as opposed to the tens of thousands that would be done here in California. So right now, it's patients getting care that they normally wouldn't get at all. Hena Cuevas>> Why the huge difference? Jutabha says that in Thailand, for example, a hospital bed runs about a hundred fifty dollars a night. That same bed in the United States would be over a thousand dollars. Is this a form of outsourcing? Dr. Rome Jutabha>> No, it's really not. This is really globalized health care in which, if we can travel across town for different procedures or travel out of state for procedures, this is just traveling a little bit farther. Hena Cuevas>> But going overseas for medical care involves a lot more than just jumping on an airplane, showing up at a hospital and having a procedure done. Before any of that can happen, there are a lot of questions that need to be asked. For example, can the patient take the long trip home after the surgery? What about after-care or any kind of side effects? But most importantly, if something were to go wrong, who is responsible? Dr. David Aizuss>> "Look straight." Hena Cuevas>> This trend in health care concerns Dr. David Aizuss. He's the President of the Los Angeles County Medical Association. Dr. David Aizuss>> You know, the medical association has not taken a formal position, but it's something that we're watching with concern. Our concern is for the patients. Patients don't always know exactly what they're getting into when they travel overseas. Hena Cuevas>> As far as liability, he says, the laws that apply are those of the country where the procedure happened. Dr. David Aizuss>> There may not be an ability to obtain any kind of financial award if they're injured or hurt and there is not necessarily the capacity to take care of these people if something untoward occurs in a foreign country. Hena Cuevas>> There is a form of certification. Foreign hospitals must be accredited by the Joint Commission International. That's a United States organization that visits and certifies each facility. Also, in the case of MEDS, the Thai doctors are all trained by United States physicians. Dr. Bruce McLucas>> I'm still teaching, which is another wonderful thing that I get to do. In Bangkok, I get to supervise and teach radiologists how to do this new procedure. I mean, they're very good. Hena Cuevas>> It's now more than six months since her trip and Toi's fibroids are shrinking. She's now working on her design business and planning for a child. Toi Arnold>> One good thing about what I went through is that there's an alternative. A lot of women would feel like, "I would love to have that procedure, but I don't have any choice. I have to have a hysterectomy. I have to have a myomectomy because I don't have insurance." No, you don't. No, you don't. There is an alternative and this is it. Hena Cuevas>> It's an alternative that she believes more people like her will choose, people who are caught off-guard by the rising cost of health care in the United States. I'm Hena Cuevas for Life and Times. Val Zavala>> So what do you think of Americans getting medical treatment overseas? You can post your comments and opinions on our blog. Just go to kcet.org/lifeandtimes/blog. Announcer>> Kcet.org is the place to look for the very latest on Life and Times. You'll find previews of upcoming stories, plus transcripts and audio of past episodes and links to some of our most interesting features. Just go to kcet.org, scroll down the page and click on "Life and Times". Val Zavala>> Stop taxing corporations and stop harassing those corporations that behave unethically. That's the advice from -- would you believe it -- one of America's foremost liberals. That liberal is Robert Reich, the former Secretary of Labor and now a professor at Berkeley. He says that, if you want to reform corporate culture, hating Wal-Mart won't work. So what will? That's what I asked Robert Reich who was recently a guest at Town Hall Los Angeles. He's the former Secretary of Labor and author of the book, "Supercapitalism". He says that, if we want corporations to behave better, we'd better change the rules for all of them. Robert Reich>> You know, in the first decades of the twentieth century, we said no child labor in the United States, forty hour work week with time and a half overtime, we want better and safer work conditions. Well, that meant all prices of all the goods were a little bit higher. But we said, as a country and as a society, it's worth it. Laws and rules are the only things in a highly competitive world that are going to change the way companies behave. Val Zavala>> One of the prescriptions for reform that you suggest is pretty shocking, again, to some people who consider you a good liberal and that is you say eliminate taxes on corporations? Robert Reich>> Yes. I mean, corporations right now are avoiding a lot of taxes. Remember, they're pieces of paper and pieces of paper are filed in another country that has lower taxes. I say, if we're concerned about having companies or the people who really benefit from profits pay taxes, we should put the taxes on shareholders and have the company withhold just as the company does withhold employee earnings with regard to the income and the tax that has to be paid. Instead of using this fiction of corporations as people and allowing us to be hoodwinked by the notion that no taxation with representation, corporations pay income taxes and therefore they should be represented politically, let's lift the veil. Let's understand that corporations are not people, that only people pay taxes and therefore only people should be represented politically. Val Zavala>> So would you like to see a prohibition on all corporate donations to political candidates? Robert Reich>> Absolutely. I say corporations are not people. They should not be part of our political process. They should not have standing to sue the government against laws and regulations that they dislike. They shouldn't be criminalized because actually there are individuals in companies that might break the law and they should be hammered. But to criminalize a company makes no sense because corporations have no criminal intent because they have no morality to begin with. They're pieces of paper. The anthropomorphic fallacy, the notion that companies are people, continues to get us in deeper and deeper trouble. Val Zavala>> But didn't the courts create that notion, in your opinion? Robert Reich>> Well, the corporation has constitutional rights and part of my suggestion in this book is that we attack those constitutional rights. The courts are not bound by precedent, as we see with the current Supreme Court, and we ought to take that on with every other aspect of corporate personhood. Val Zavala>> The next question would be how do we get the citizen part of the American character bolstered and motivated to make these kinds of changes? Because we're enjoying all our consumer goods too much in many situations. Robert Reich>> Well, the first step is to get our thinking straight about corporations not being people, they cannot act morally, we can't expect them to and all the other things. The second step is to start a citizens movement. The system is not going to reform itself politically from the inside out in terms of money and politics, especially corporate money, political action committees, a bundling of executive money. No, the only we get that out of politics is we as citizens have a movement that says, for example, every candidate has got to set up a blind trust if they want campaign contributions and they may never know who contributed what, thereby severing the quid from the quo. Val Zavala>> That's interesting. Robert Reich>> There are many other things that we can do, but we have to do it. We can't wait for people in Washington to do it because they are reacting and advantaged in a way by the present system. Val Zavala>> But, you know, it's frustrating because even if I wanted to do something, where do I start? Where do I go? There's not an organization that has taken on this cause in particular. Robert Reich>> Val, I say to everybody -- every Progressive and even a lot of Conservatives are concerned about corporate power in terms of what their issues are, like having a better media that doesn't spew sex and violence, for example, the coarsening of America. I say to everybody that there is no way you are going to put constraints on the corporation unless you clean up politics first. Therefore, if you want to be a Progressive, if you want to be a Conservative, whatever your goal is in terms of what the rules should be, you've got to join together to rescue our democracy. Now how can we do that? What are the organizations to do that? The first decades of the twentieth century, the Progressive movement that took democracy away from the urban machines was a movement that sprang from the people, from the grassroots. There were about fifteen or twenty organizations, many, many different levels. People didn't wait for the organization. People created the organization. These days through the internet and through all sorts of other ways, we can begin to knit ourselves together politically. People can take action beginning tomorrow. Val Zavala>> Now let's just say that the American people don't wake up or are too, you know, busy watching their five hundred channels of cable television and nothing happens. We keep going down this route. What are the dangers? What kind of world are we looking at where supercapitalism just continues to grow? Robert Reich>> Well, the danger is that we as consumers and as investors continue to do better and better, but all the other values we believe in, global warming, for example, fighting global warming, avoiding a two-tiered society in which all of the benefits go to a fairly small number of people and most of the rest of society is anxious and is not really participating in the benefits. Val Zavala>> Struggling. Robert Reich>> Whatever you want to believe in, none of those public values are actually effectuated. We are very rich in a way as consumers and investors. We get choices, but as people who share values about our society should be and what the world ought to be, we are unable to articulate or find the common good. Val Zavala>> So in the end, we will end up with a society that's under greater stress, strain, tensions. I mean, it's inevitable? Robert Reich>> Well, we'll have a society in which people can fill up their houses with stuff and investors can get pretty good returns, but the people who do the best are going to be just a fairly small number of Americans. There are going to be a lot of values that are not achieved. Health care, global warming will continue to get worse. Corporations will completely run our politics and we will be engulfed in cynicism. Val Zavala>> And the alternative as you have mapped out in your book would create what kind of society? Robert Reich>> Well, the alternative is supercapitalism that continues to cater to consumers and investors where we have companies not expected to be moral creatures, but we citizens set the boundaries. We set the rules of the game. Democracy and capitalism are kept separate. Val Zavala>> Robert Reich, author of "Supercapitalism: The Transformation of Business, Democracy and Everyday Life", thank you so much for your thoughts. Robert Reich>> Thanks very much, Val. Val Zavala>> Robert Reich was a guest of Writers Bloc and Town Hall Los Angeles. For information on future speakers, you can go to their website at townhall-la.org. Announcer>> To send a comment or a question to our program, you can reach us by mail at this address: Life and Times 4401 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, California 90027 You can also call our viewer comment line (323) 953-5555) or contact us the fast way by e-mail at kcet.org. Val Zavala>> It's been thirteen years since the Northridge earthquake and most people have finished their repairs with the exception of one house. It's hidden away in Encino and it's just now finishing earthquake repairs. So why did it take thirteen years? Well, as Vicki Curry tells us, this house is not your typical suburban ranch home. Vicki Curry>> Looking at this idyllic spot in Encino, it's tough to imagine the hardships it's endured over its one hundred fifty year history. This land and its two historic homes has survived different owners, changing fortunes, modern development and natural disasters, but its biggest threat may have been the Northridge earthquake. Mike Crosby>> In 1994, there was the big earthquake. Both this building and the two-story building were hit very hard. This wall right here just completely fell out. Vicki Curry>> The buildings were closed for more than a decade, but they recently reopened after extensive repairs. The De La Osa Adobe is the oldest structure in Los Encinos State Historic Park and the heart of what was once El Encino Rancho. Alexa Clausen>> The fact that it was built, salvaged, saved, pinned, repaired, you know, over and over again, just its sure ability to survive is pretty impressive. Vicki Curry>> The modern day history of this land starts in 1769. That's when the Spanish explorer Portola stayed for two days with the Native Americans who lived here. Alexa Clausen>> It was a village site, very old. Some archaeology tests it back to eight to ten thousand years old. It was believed to have been continuously occupied. The draw for the village to be here are two or three wonderful springs. For sure, the warm spring and a cold water spring. Vicki Curry>> The Spanish called it El Valle De Los Encinos, the Valley of the Oaks. And from that point on, the name Encino was attached to this land. At the end of the 1700s, the Catholic church chose a nearby spot for its San Fernando Mission. Alexa Clausen>> This Rancho was granted to three Indian natives who had worked at the mission and petitioned the Mexican government saying we would like this land. Vicki Curry>> However, the Indian families quickly began selling off pieces of their forty-five hundred acres to ranchero Vicente De La Osa. By 1849, he owned the entire property and built the adobe that still stands today. Alexa Clausen>> He did have cattle, but he was also known for his orchards. He was known for his vineyards and he was known for selling water. It was on the main road to travel by stage to Ventura and then inland too to connect onto stage travel into San Francisco. Vicki Curry>> Its location along El Camino Real, known these days as Ventura Boulevard, would help future owners survive tough times. A French family, the Garniers, bought the Rancho in 1868 and turned it into a sheep farm, but they continued to take in travelers and they made a number of changes to the property, adding this two-story building and lining the pond with stone. Alexa Clausen>> They had plumbed the buildings, which means they ran pipes from the spring so it was diverted there and then the overflow went into the pond, and they built bathhouses. You could stop and come and bathe in the warm water. It's shown that that particular warm spring is considered medicinal in that it has certain mineral qualities that people seek out. It's a warm water spring and that was piped to the bathhouses so you could bathe in that too. Vicki Curry>> The Garniers also built a roadhouse along El Camino Real. Mike Crosby>> The stagecoach stop across the way used to be a gathering place of Basque people when they would come into town. Vicki Curry>> A string of Basque families took over El Encino Rancho starting in 1878 and focused on agriculture. Alexa Clausen>> And they went into dry farming. This was very common in the whole San Fernando Valley. Lima beans and then wheat and this was very, very typical of the whole region. Vicki Curry>> The last family to own the entire Rancho was the Amestoys. In 1916, they sold off nearly twelve hundred acres that became the city of Encino. Mike Crosby>> Once the water came down from the Owens Valley, more and more houses started to be built around in here. They were small farms. But then after World War II, all the servicemen came back into California and they wanted to buy houses. Vicki Curry>> The Amestoys slowly sold the rest of the land and, in 1945, a building syndicate took over the last hundred acres. Mike Crosby>> In 1949, there was a sign out in front of the adobe out on Ventura Boulevard saying that this property was going to be demolished. Vicki Curry>> A woman named Maria Stuart formed the Encino Historic Committee and persuaded state and local government to buy the remaining land and the historic buildings. The site was named Los Encinos State Historic Park. Alexa Clausen>> We have the five acres of the heart of the Rancho saved right here exactly the way it was on the exact spot that it was constructed. Vicki Curry>> The founding of the park might have been the end of the Rancho's story, but the devastation of the Northridge earthquake produced an unexpected opportunity to discover more of the Rancho's history. While looking at the damaged walls in one room, a conservator noticed bits of color peeking through the cracks. Alexa Clausen>> As she was taking little pieces of paint off, she started coming across these little decorative pieces. She found a corner of what looks like a frame, a hand-painted frame. When the pieces of plaster fell down and some of the walls were exposed, in time what was discovered was a wall decoration that matches the mid-nineteenth century French country homes. Vicki Curry>> And that's what this is? Alexa Clausen>> And that's what you're looking at. Vicki Curry>> So before the Northridge earthquake in 1994, these were just plain walls? And it was because of the earthquake that pieces fell off and exposed the hidden color? Alexa Clausen>> Right. Vicki Curry>> The experts discovered that, when the Garnier family lived at the Rancho during the 1870s, they had decorated the salon walls with this hand-done painting. This drawing shows what it probably looked like at the time. Alexa Clausen>> So the transformation from the Californio Adobe to this French country style home was in the evidence in the walls that was uncovered mainly due to the earthquake. Vicki Curry>> Apparently, the next owner immediately covered over the wall decoration, hiding those traces of a French country home under layers of paint and plaster for more than a hundred years. Alexa Clausen>> Its vividness and the bright colors are probably due to the fact that it was, you know, covered for so long. Vicki Curry>> But now it's uncovered and on display to the public. The newly-restored buildings at Los Encinos State Historic Park illustrate the life and times of the families that lived there. Alexa Clausen>> Each of the families have made an effort over the years to bring a token, to bring a small remembrance, so that it's here in the park. Each owner has really left a mark here and seemed to cherish it and hold onto it. Mike Crosby>> This is actually kind of a melting pot just like America is with all these different cultures, but it's our heritage. You know, it's the history of the land and we're lucky to still have something that's this old still living and breathing in Los Angeles. Val Zavala>> Los Encinos State Historic Park is open to the public and looking for volunteers to lead those tours. For information, you can go to their website at los-encinos.org. And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education. And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg. Sponsored in part by:  | |
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