Life & Times - Transcript

About Us \| Contact Us

Life & Times Transcript

12/26/07

Val Zavala>> Tonight on Life and Times --

Familiar faces --

Rubin Martinez>> There was a genuine attempt to come to a middle point between our three personalities in politics.

Patt Morrison>> They were combative, they were rambunctious, but they were still friendly.

Val Zavala>> Favorite stories --

Hugh Hewitt>> One of my most memorable evenings on Life and Times was our special election night coverage in 1994.

Kerman Maddox>> Hugh Hewitt just lost it. He was so crazy.

Val Zavala>> And the people we'll never forget.

Kerman Maddox>> "They understand that vital services are needed, library, parks and recreation."

Hugh Hewitt>> "Spin, spin."

Kerman Maddox> "It's not spin. It's what happened."

Patt Morrison>> "It's not spin. It's numbers."

Val Zavala>> We look back at the life of Life and Times, sixteen years of covering southern California.

It's all straight ahead on tonight's Life and Times.

Announcer>> Life and Times is made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education.

And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg.

Val Zavala>> Hello, I'm Val Zavala. Tonight is bittersweet. This is the last week of broadcasts for Life and Times. We're looking forward to developing a new local news magazine to air later in the spring. But for now, we're looking back, way back.

Even before Life and Times, KCET was committed to covering local news and issues. Some of you may remember "28 Tonight" from the late 1970s. It was hosted by one of the most respected newsmen in Los Angeles, Clete Roberts. Clete Roberts kicked off what became a long commitment to local news coverage. I came to the station in 1987 as a reporter covering some hot issues.

Val Zavala>> "The only difference between what's happening in here and what's happening in our atmosphere is that our atmosphere doesn't use glass."

Val Zavala>> Then in 1989, we launched a new show called "By The Year 2000" that looked toward the new millennium.

>> "Science fiction writers have conceived a Los Angeles of the future, gleaming chrome and glass buildings, ultra-sleek skyscrapers, everything clean and modern and standing on the buried ruins of the past."

Val Zavala>> But no series has had the longevity of Life and Times. It started in 1992 as a forum for friendly political feuding between Hugh Hewitt, Patt Morrison, Ruben Martinez and, later, Kerman Maddox. Now at the time, none of them had had any broadcast experience. Their very first television appearance came on January 13, 1992, the night that Life and Times debuted.

Hugh Hewitt>> "Welcome to the very first edition of Life and Times, KCET's new daily news and information program. We'll be bringing it to you every Monday and Friday evening at 7:30."

Hugh Hewitt>> I just always liked working with Ruben and Kerman and Patt just talking around the table about whatever the issues of the days were.

Patt Morrison>> People sitting down and talking about their differences and trying to understand why there were differences in the first place. That simply wasn't being done in that format and the context, at the length and in the depth with which we did it at Life and Times.

Kerman Maddox>> The thing that I'll always remember with fondness is News of the Week which gave me and Patt and Hugh and Ruben an opportunity to really kind of engage and talk about local public policy issues, transportation, health care, public safety, and really kind of get in it.

Kerman Maddox>> "You're trying to finesse this. If this took place in southern California, northern California, if you look at the results, the majority of people who went to the polls based that they did not vote against it, they basically voted for the maintenance of taxes because I think they understand that vital services are needed, libraries, parks and recreation."

Hugh Hewitt>> "Spin, spin."

Kerman Maddox>> "It's not spin. It's what happened."

Patt Morrison>> "It's not spin. It's numbers."

Hugh Hewitt>> "Not many cities did not bring. What you have to say is those cities -- "

Patt Morrison>> -- "outnumbered virtually five to one."

Kerman Maddox>> "This is not spin. Come on."

Hugh Hewitt>> "No, no, no. Eight cities voted yes in Los Angeles County, two voted no."

Patt Morrison>> "Speaking of spin, we have to stop your spin to spin the schedule for next week."

Kerman Maddox>> "We have to spin the schedule."

Ruben Martinez>> I think I'd been on the job like ten days when the Rodney King riots broke out.

Patt Morrison>> We, all the Life and Times folk, who are standing at KCET behind the gate looking across the street watching the looting going on.

Ruben Martinez>> It was a crazy thing, you know, a crazy feeling. History was going on in the moment and we were talking about in the moment.

Patt Morrison>> "If you are within reach of this program, you have probably smelled the smoke from our burning city. You have probably driven home on its empty streets and freeways and you know that what is going on is an earthquake of sorts, a social upheaval of an immense magnitude. The whole world is indeed watching us and this special edition of Life and Times is intended to reach all the people in your homes and on the streets."

Ruben Martinez>> "There is no we or they right now. The violence has spread all over the inner city and into Hollywood. We're at the KCET studios in east Hollywood and there was looting right outside. It's everywhere. It cannot be we or they anymore. It is all of us together."

Hugh Hewitt>> Some of our best programming was during the mayoral scrum of Riordan's first election.

Patt Morrison>> We had more than twenty people running for mayor, so we set up something called the Mayorometer.

Hugh Hewitt>> Where we would move the mayor people up and down on this little felt board.

Hugh Hewitt>> "To recap for this week on the mayor board -- we'll reset it next week -- Nick Patsoris at the top not only for his comment "Don't listen to my accent, listen to my words", but for a well-delivered endorsement from Richard Alatore; Joel Wachs, a fifty cent bus proposal, "It's substantive. It matters to us." He's out and about, up on radio ads as well.

Richard Riordan is up with good, tough ads, tough enough to turn Los Angeles around; Mike Woo bleeding a death of a thousand cuts continues to drop in our estimate; Linda Griego picks up an important endorsement; and Stan Sanders comes over the horizon for the first time on this, the most important board. Ruben?"

Ruben Martinez>> "Okay. I can't wait until next week when I can control the board."

Ruben Martinez>> That wasn't an act. You know, there was genuine warmth. There was a genuine attempt to come to a middle point between our three personalities and politics. That was a wonderful thing.

Patt Morrison>> "For years, I have argued that the Star Spangled Banner is a horrible anthem. First of all, the music is an eighteenth century drinking song called "To Anacreon in Heaven". You have to be drinking to be able to sing it. Now whenever anybody sings it, they think of Roseanne Barr. It is just not a very suitable song."

Hugh Hewitt>> "In a rare moment of agreement."

Patt Morrison>> "And Hugh is in favor of what we just heard, "The Battle Hymn of the Republic."

Hugh Hewitt>> "And the argument for "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", even though it mentions Christ and even though we'd have to overlook the First Amendment problem and even though it is militaristic, is that it represents the battle for the Union, the battle for liberty. It represents the party of Lincoln. It represents hope. It also represents the end of slavery."

Patt Morrison>> "It represents Americans killing Americans in bigger numbers than we have ever done."

Hugh Hewitt>> "No, it represents the end of slavery and the founding of liberty. And since the party of Lincoln took it on the chin this week, I think you ought to at least give us this."

Patt Morrison>> "Well, my argument is that it is very bellicose. The Cold War is over and here is my choice for the national anthem.

[Playing music]

Hugh Hewitt>> "Sanctimonious."

Patt Morrison>> "It's environmental, it's not sexist, it's not militaristic. It's a beautiful song. It's easy to sing. Why not?"

Hugh Hewitt>> "Your choice, of course, is somewhat crazy."

Ruben Martinez>> "I'm just looking at another verse here. "Oh, beautiful for patriot dream"?

Patt Morrison>> "The alabaster cities gleam undimmed by human tears?"

Ruben Martinez>> "Too much resonance -- I'm sorry. Let's take a look at my choice. This is the only one with real poetic tension with that grittiness that is part of the American pop culture out there like Jack Kerouac and everything else that's great about America. Let's listen to this one.

[Playing music]

Ruben Martinez>> "Don't follow the leaders, watch the parking meters, ladies and gentlemen."

Patt Morrison>> "He can't even sing this."

Ruben Martinez>> "American populism. That's not -- it's spoken word. It's rap. It's like early rap. We can all rap with it."

Hugh Hewitt>> "Early rap?"

Ruben Martinez>> "Yes, yes. Indeed it is."

Patt Morrison>> "I can't stand up every time we sing Dylan. I can't do it."

Ruben Martinez>> "But it's got that anti-incumbency fervor to it. You know what I'm saying?"

Patt Morrison>> "Parking meters?"

Hugh Hewitt>> "Hey, hey, term limits."

Ruben Martinez>> "Don't follow the leaders, watch the parking meters, ladies and gentlemen."

Patt Morrison>> I think the political shows that we did were among my favorites because they were combative, they were rambunctious, but they were still friendly.

Hugh Hewitt>> One of my most memorable evenings on Life and Times was our special election night coverage in 1994 when Newt Gingrich led the Republican revolution.

Kerman Maddox>> Hugh Hewitt just lost it. He was so crazy, he was so happy because, of course, Democrats had been in control forever.

Hugh Hewitt>> Of course, I was probably the only happy person in the studio that night (laughter), but I was really happy.

Hugh Hewitt>> "So I get to kick off because, two years ago, you guys beat the living daylights out of me."

Ruben Martinez>> "Oh, my God, I don't want to have to listen to this."

Hugh Hewitt>> "You had shovels and ax picks and hammers and you beat me down and, two years later, the Phoenix has risen and risen in such a way that you all must be stunned. Speaker Gingrich. What a wonderful ring it has."

Kerman Maddox>> "Well, obviously, I'm not as happy as Hugh tonight about the results."

Hugh Hewitt>> "Very few people are, Kerman."

Kerman Maddox>> "Tough night for Democrats. I think, obviously, it's an understatement to say that they go back to the woodshed. They've got to start over because, obviously in 1992, we had some incredible victories. All that is gone in a matter of two years.

But I'm really troubled by what I think the direction we're moving in in terms of playing racial politics, wedge politics and dirty politics. People say they don't like it, but it works. I think 187 is a prime example of dirty politics working effectively in the state of California especially when you look at the governor's race. I just got to tell you, that troubles me personally."

Ruben Martinez>> "You know, what 187 reminds me of is it's the fervor of a lynch mob is what it is because it's this kind of blind anger, blind rage that works everybody up into a frenzy, nobody's thinking rationally, everything's coming from the gut, from a place that we really don't understand. A lot of stuff we don't understand down there in the gut. All of a sudden, you know, it comes out in a policy and there's a victim here."

Ruben Martinez>> There's a lot of wonderful moments also. I mean, interviewing a lot of my heroes. Ray Bradbury, John Ritchie, you know, wonderful writers that I was weaned on as a young writer.

Ruben Martinez>> "Obviously, "Fahrenheit 451" has as its central theme, the idea of firemen who don't, you know, put out fires, but who set books to fire in book burnings. It was written, I know, in the midst of the McCarthy era which, of course, was a very scary time for free expression. In terms of how you see the free flow of ideas in America today, how does it compare? You've seen a few decades of this now. Where do we stand in terms of censorship?"

Ray Bradbury>> "Well, I wrote about political correctness forty years ago. It's in the book. The fire chief gives a little speech. He says, in essence, "Don't be afraid of big brother. Be afraid of little brother and little sister, all the little groups that gather around you and nibble at your ankles, the Jewish groups, the Black groups, the Catholic groups, the right and the left and, between all of them, they'll each take a book out of the library and you look up one day and the shelves are empty." So it's the little people at the bottom, not the government at the top we have to be afraid of.

Ruben Martinez>> "You've often railed against critics who label you one way or another a gay author, a Chicano author, a California writer or a Texas writer. Talk a little bit about how you see yourself and how you feel you're seen by the literary establishment?"

>> "Well, more and more, because I fight it, I'm seen as a writer. I've been criticized by gay people for saying that gay people have to resist the title of gay writer. I've been criticized by Chicano writers for saying that I don't want to be called a Chicano writer.

I don't want a label and I think that there is a very subtle trap that, once you start labeling, you do create an artistic ghetto. You separate Black, Chicano, gay and then the whole mainstream of literature goes on without you. I won't mind being labeled a Chicago writer or a gay writer whenever John Updike gets labeled a heterosexual Wasp."

Ruben Martinez>> "Right, right."

Patt Morrison>> Carl Sagan was a monumental figure in American science in getting Americans to understand science. In his enthusiasm for his subject, you almost felt as if you had to put a bungee cord around the man to keep him in his chair. He was so involved and so engaged.

Patt Morrison>> "You both had a hand in some of the work in the SETI project. You were working on the Voyager message that went out into space and you were twisting arms or whatever it was you did to get funding, to get interest going in this. Again, we get back to the ambivalence that we discuss at the beginning in your book. We don't want to be alone in the big dark, but if man is the measure of all things, how can there be anything else out there?"

Carl Sagan>> "You're right. There is an ambivalence. Those people who were upset to discover that the earth was not at the center of the universe, those people who were upset to find that the evolutionary record and the message in the genes does not show any evidence of us being the product of divine intervention and special creation, those people will perhaps also be upset if we get a message from elsewhere, especially from civilizations more advanced than our own.

It is a further demotion of the imagined specialness of humans. But to derive one's self-esteem from the idea that, through no effort of ours, just by being where we are, being human, we are at the top of some cosmic dominance hierarchy, that seems to me a very forlorn expectation. How much better to have our self-esteem depend on how we improve ourselves and our society and make a world worthy of our children."

Patt Morrison>> Stephen J. Gould was kind of a prickly character and I would challenge him on some of his points. He would prickle a little bit, but he would rise to the occasion, rise to the answer. I think he enjoyed being challenged a little bit and I think he enjoyed, again, what we did at Life and Times.

Stephen J. Gould>> "Everything that we call civilization from the first city of Jericho to the seediest town in Chicago has been built with creatures of the same reign, so clearly there's enormous capacity here."

Patt Morrison>> "But that brings up the question of adaptability and how, over the years, for example, our science, our ingenuity, may have thwarted the course of nature. People are surviving diseases that they would have died from fifty or a hundred years ago. Are there any consequences to that?"

Stephen J. Gould>> "There's a kind of popular notion that somehow that must mean that the human race is degenerating because people live now who would have died in a state of --"

Patt Morrison>> -- "but if we have externalized our adaptability."

Stephen J. Gould>> "But so what? I mean, so maybe because of my eyesight, I wouldn't have made it in the African savannahs a million years ago. I'm not living there. I go to CVS, I buy this for fifteen dollars and I'm fine (laughter). Doesn't make me any worse. Similarly, if we can now cure a disease that would have killed you a million years ago, then we can cure it. This is not a blot on the genetic escutcheon of homo sapiens."

Kerman Maddox>> The one interview I'll remember is the opportunity I had to interview former Ambassador, former Mayor of Atlanta, Andrew Young. The reason for that is I grew up being a fan of the civil rights movement, one of the most important moments in our history, to me. I loved Andrew Young. He was like a hero to me.

Kerman Maddox>> "You got involved with the civil rights movement in your twenties. Most people in their twenties haven't a clue as to what they're doing. Not only were you involved, but you were involved in a leadership position. What possessed you to get involved so early?"

Andrew Young>> "I think my parents raised me to believe that life was a burden, particularly race was a burden, but that it was an easy burden if you dealt with it every day of your life. Now we were much more prepared as almost infants to deal with segregation. You had to deal with segregation to survive.

Your parents had to tell you that it was wrong, but that it was the law, so you had to go along with it. Well, you grow up with that kind of internal conflicts, obeying a law that you know is wrong. It's just a matter of time before you figure out that somebody has got to change it."

Kerman Maddox>> There's another interview that I remember quite well and that was with Minister Lewis Farrakhan from the nation of Islam. When I first started at KCET, because they had painted this impression of him as this monster individual, I spent two and a half or three hours with him and I found him to be, you know, charming and down to earth and just incredibly interesting as a human being. Complex, but interesting. I just remember that.

Kerman Maddox>> "You said on more than one occasion that you're one of the most listened to leaders or spokespersons in the African American community. Why do you think that your message connects in a way that the message from mainstream African American organizations doesn't connect with the people?"

Minister Lewis Farrakhan>> Mainstream can't say what I say because they're looking to white philanthropy to help boost their organizations. I'm not looking to white philanthropy to give me anything. I am supported by black people which makes me free and I can speak for black people because I'm not afraid that some white man who does not like my message is going to pull the plug.

The problem with mainstream black leadership is they're not after the hearts of our people. They're after showing themselves to be acceptable to white people and this is not a mistake. This is a conscious error on their part. White people don't care what you think about them if they're leading their people and why should we care what they think when our people are suffering, brother? We have to appeal to the hearts of our people.

Hugh Hewitt>> I always tell people that I would love to see again the Oliver Stone interview in its full. We talked for an hour. It was condensed down. That was a very interesting interview and I've heard from third parties that Mr. Stone thinks it's really quite provocative as well.

Hugh Hewitt>> "You glory in the use of emotion in driving home your points perhaps even at the exclusion of facts and you're getting close then to propaganda. You know your conservative critics have compared you to Leni Riefenstahl, Hitler's filmmaker. Are you aware? Are you susceptible to that temptation to turn your movies into propaganda?

Oliver Stone>> "Listen, I believe Leni Riefenstahl did a great job and I think she did the right thing. She was a believer in Hitler and so were many people in the 1930s. Whether they were proved ultimately wrong, she used film to the best of her ability to glorify an individual who she believed in. It's easy in hindsight now to be politically correct and say that Leni Riefenstahl was this monster, but she followed her emotions. She was an artist.

This is what I do. If I am wrong and Oswald did in fact fire this magic bullet and did all this damage, does that make me a monster? Certainly the reaction to the film contained the thought as if it were a forest fire.

I mean, you know that film can't ultimately -- I mean, people who are serious will go out and make up their own mind. They will pick up a book and they will start to read. You can't deal in two and a half or three hours with all the facts of the case. I couldn't put forth the argument of the Warren Commission in that timeframe. I couldn't. It was just impossible."

Hugh Hewitt>> I had a wonderful time with Richard Dreyfus. It's the only time we've run out of tape in my entire life in Life and Times. We took about two hours of tape with Richard Dreyfus. He's a very, very smart fellow and very left of center, so we mixed it up and it was great fun.

Hugh Hewitt>> "The rules of moviemaking changed in the course of your career. Just this week in the Weekly Standard, a magazine you may or may not read, John Podhoretz, who is Norman's son, the great intellectual (laughter), writes about "Jaws".

"Jaws" inaugurated the era of the blockbuster in our time, a hit movie that makes more money than anyone ever dreamed a movie could and that in turn has led to the systematic and systemic dumbing down that makes going to the movies such a chore." You know, it's one thing to make a bad movie. It's another thing to destroy the genre. What about that? Did you inaugurate? And then "Close Encounters" follows. You're the first to -- "

Richard Dreyfus>> -- "What I think he just said was, the fact that this movie was successful has destroyed the film business."

Hugh Hewitt>> "Yes."

Richard Dreyfus>> "(Cough, cough)."

Hugh Hewitt>> "What about the argument that blockbuster pictures -- because "Jaws" made so much money and it was phenomenal. It's on all the time still and it still has an appeal that is chilling and thrilling and wonderful, that Hollywood studio said, "We can make sixty million dollars on a movie. Therefore, we will go after the independent stays which is the most recent issue of "Jaws". What about that?"

Richard Dreyfus>> "Well, if I'm not mistaken, and correct me if I'm wrong, let's take another endeavor. Let's say magazine publishing. Someone does a magazine about mud wrestling and more mud wrestling magazine issues are sold. Do you think the publisher is going to say, "Well, we've done that. We'll never repeat that again because that's tasteless, so let's never do a mud wrestling." I don't think so."

Hugh Hewitt>> We used to obsess over comments that people would send in to Life and Times. We loved it. You know, they'd send in emails, nasty, nice, everything in between, and we'd all read them and talk about them.

Patt Morrison>> "And Barbara Ardinger of Long Beach appreciated my commentary on Wednesday about television news coverage of police pursuits. She says, "Is it possible to mainline your piece into the brain synapses of all the news directors and anchors of all the local television stations? It would certainly be interesting to see real news for a change."

Kerman Maddox>> I'd hear from security guards, UPS delivery men, FedEx delivery men, the people that don't fit the profile that you think watch the show that always basically say, "Loved the show, watched the show, liked this segment, didn't like that segment." So there was real connection between those of us on the set and those people out there actually viewing the show. That was tremendous gratification on a personal level.

Patt Morrison>> To go out in the city and find how many people counted on Life and Times to get information beyond just headlines, beyond sound bites, and that was gratifying, that it was an absolute public service to this city.

Patt Morrison>> "And this trio bids goodbye to you, our viewers, on this, our last news roundup together. Hugh and I have been here since the very first Life and Times seven and a half years ago. Kerman came along not long thereafter. In that time, we've been privileged to bring you in-depth conversations with leading figures of science, politics, the arts, offering you their insights and analyses and ours.

Amid a cacophony of partisan shouting, we have brought you what we think is civil dialogue on civic matters and, whatever our political divergences I have for these two guys, the greatest affection and respect. I'll miss working with them. We routinely thank our guests for joining us, but we want to thank you for watching so loyally and caring so deeply about those matters that are of such import to our part of the world and of all parts of our brains."

Kerman Maddox>> "It's been a pleasure working with you guys. I joined this operation in 1994 and had to be a quick study to kind of catch up with my left and right. But it's been great working with you guys. I'm going to miss the posse, the trio, the Three Amigos. I'm really going to miss the job that I've had sensitizing you to the some of the other communities and some of the other -- "

Patt Morrison>> -- "yeah, but look how much money you've -- "

Kerman Maddox>> -- "that was a full-time job. I feel really bad about that (laughter)."

Hugh Hewitt>> "Well, I want to say that, when Dan Layton and Trace Percy and Martin Burns and Jim Kennedy pitched this show to us many, many moons ago, they asked for passion, intelligence and civility, mostly civility. That's not always been here, but I think ninety-nine percent of the time and, if I have offended, I apologize to the audience. But I thank you very much for letting us be a part of your Friday nights for seven and a half years."

Val Zavala>> So where are they now? Well, Hugh Hewitt, as you may know, hosts a nationally syndicated radio talk show where he proudly displays his conservative credentials.

Patt Morrison still writes for the Los Angeles Times and has her own radio show on KPCC Public Radio.

Kerman Maddox heads a PR firm and is a political consultant for Democratic candidates. He's also a proud father of a thirteen month old boy.

And Ruben Martinez? He's an English professor at Loyola Marymount University, the author of several books on immigration and a father of one year old twin girls.

Tomorrow night, we take a look at the next stage in the Life and Times evolution with new anchors Warren Olney and Jess Marlow. In the meantime, we'd love to know your memories and thoughts about Life and Times over the years, so go to our blog and start typing at kcet.org/lifeandtimes/blog.

And that's our program. I'm Val Zavala. We'll see you tomorrow.

Hugh Hewitt>> Congratulations to everyone at Life and Times for sixteen wonderful years.

Ruben Martinez>> Sixteen years of mixing it up.

Patt Morrison>> Sweet sixteen, sixteen years. Life and Times is old enough to drive? Who knew?

Kerman Maddox>> Congratulations, Life and Times, for giving me the opportunity to engage you for sixteen years and debunk the myth that Hugh Hewitt is the voice of reason.

Hugh Hewitt>> When I began, I had brown hair and the city was on fire. Now I'm completely white-haired, but the city is rebuilt and it's really in a wonderful place. I like to think that Life and Times contributed some of that.

Announcer>> Life and Times was made possible through the generous support of the L.K. Whittier Foundation dedicated to improving the quality of life by supporting innovative endeavors in the fields of medicine, health, science and education.

And by a generous grant from Jim and Anne Rothenberg.

Sponsored in part by:


Home \| Features \| Arts \| Health/Science \| OC Edition \| L&T Blog \| Archives \| About Us \| Contact Us \| Privacy Policy \| Terms of Use © 2007 COMMUNITY TELEVISION OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA